Savage-wp

There is no magic here. The C63 is designed to run on 98 gas. Anything less than that and the ECU pulls timing. When the ECU pulls timing it generally pulls more than it needs to so you see dips in the dyno graph. This leads to a drop in power.
This gets even worse on a tuned car that is pushing more timing.
This test was done on a tuned car running 91 octane. So it would have been pulling lots of timing.
Add the booster, and it pulls less or no timing, and you make more power.
In South Africa, we get 95 fuel. I have run my C63 on the dyno on normal pump gas, then filled the tank with normal pump gas and added a bottle of NF, and driven back to the dyno. It consistently makes more power with the NF. I'll have to dig up the graphs to let you know the difference.
Methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT or MCMT) is what I assume is the main additive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meth...se_tricarbonyl

gaspam

lol you can keep making your meritless insults, just shows what a insecure little man you are and yes its math and because you got a number the indicates octane booster has a very high effective oct, you think it just cant be because nothing can have a higher octane than gas right? lmao! dude you have no clue about what you are talking about... torco (which is similar to the octane booster) has been tested before and it comes in about 462.... keep arguing with results as if that is going to change the dyno lol

gaspam

finally someone that gets it

BLKROKT

So you're saying that this stuff has over twice the effective stand-alone octane rating as Torco. Ok.

gaspam

nope, about 40.6 % more ( ~650) ... its funny you keep thinking octane booster in terms of gas concentrations ... its like comparing coca leaf concentration vs pure cocaine lol.... there is a reason you only put 16oz in your gas tank

i've used torco in my b5 s4 and picked up 15-20whp on dyno without changing my timing map same day before and many other people on the bmw s63tu platform and gtr as well... this is nothing new

m a x i m u s

+1. I know my ecu pulls timing due to our CA 91 octane crap. I can understand BLKROKT's argument; he's simply saying that that octane booster isn't effective enough. I dunno. I'd love to find an effective solution though bc I know my car could put out more ponies with even 93.

Jasonoff

I may have missed the part where I said I was an expert in the laws of physics, my bad if I did actually state that somewhere (I didn't BTW...).

It's not just the octane delta, it's also how much timing would be pulled on 89 and I doubt it would be linear. Incase you don't understand, I am betting on a similar HP loss with 89 vs 91 (maybe 23WHP ) than the HP gain from 91 to whatever this magic sauce raises it to.

I pretty much say the exact same thing with less words and he gets it but I don't?

You're way too emotional about this stuff.

SuperFastYo

Everyone:
Me:

playing devils advocate: Considering what people are saying, couldn't I just add a bit of e85 and get the same results?

Savage-wp

If the car can use E85, then yes. Anything that yields a higher octane rating will have less to no detonation, and therefore no retarded timing, which would give more power.

SuperFastYo

I'm sure a gallon wouldn't hurt much, would it? That should raise the octane at least close to the specified 98 octane. I would run 50/50 in my 335i (but I was modded and boosting at about 18psi so huge difference in setups). I never replaced my LPFP or HPFP or any of my fuel lines. It ran fine, so Im only assuming we can run a little in our tanks. Again, could be wrong but thats just based off my experience.

Cli63

Isn't US 91/93 equivalent to 95/98 RON? So if you are boosting the octane to 100 on US gas won't that be around 110+ in RON?

gaspam

and this is where you obviously dont know anything about timing and oct... as i explained 2 oct points is nowhere near enough to cause the timing pull that would result on 23whp change.... like i illustrated before, its worth maybe 1 to 1.5 degrees of timing pulled... if you think that is worth 23 whp then you have never tuned a car or messed with any timing tables and tested timing tweeks... again, 1 degree of timing is worth maybe 2-3 hp on a n/a motor and 2pt change in oct isnt going to pull more than 2 degrees of timing (and therefor no more than 3-4 hp)...again, come up with a better excuse as to why the dyno results dont fit your narrative

SuperFastYo

lol chill Gaspam, were just talking about octane of gas. Not world politics

Jasonoff

So you're saying this is true for any NA motor regardless of output? Cool...

gaspam

E85 is great, but you would have to have tank of almost 100% e85 to get the same effective octane of what the octane booster is supposed to do (get you around 100-104 oct).. and then you need to tune, bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump to notice advantage of e85 due to different stoichiometric afr of it vs gas

also ethanol has about 35% less energy that gas, so unless you increase you're fueling you will lose power...gas has a stoichiometric afr of 14.7 to 1, E85 is 9.8 to 1. So on pump gas we need 14.7 parts air to mix with 1 part gas. On E85 its 1 part fuel to 9.8 parts air. So on E85 the afr needs to be a lot richer, which means it has a larger volume of fuel. For this you need to inject around 35% more e85 to mix with the same volume of air when we switch from gasoline to E85.

i've only seen 1 MB guy running e85 over on the e55 forum and it wasnt an easy path... MB's are a pain with tuning

gaspam

it has some variance, but not a 475% variance (23hp vs 4 hp)... for a N/A car that is 300-500 hp the margin of error wouldnt be that big.... for a 8000 hp nitromethane car then sure that hp per degree of timing would be off, but that's not what we are talking about

Jasonoff

What about RPM, displacement, crank/rod geometry, compression ratio, temperature, fuel table, etc?

Can you also explain how this magic sauce nets a larger gain without being specifically tuned for vs one that has been specifically tuned for with race fuel?

Does that mean you're implying using this stuff on a tuned for 91 C63 is better than using race fuel with a specific tune for it?

skratch77

I have 93 Oct here will this stuff do anything with 93 Oct or is it for people using 91

gaspam

lol crank/rod geometry... you're grasping

you know you gain hp on no2 without tuning for it either right? magic sauce strikes again .. same as nitropropanes/nitroparraffins used in concentrates power adders

and no, specific tune for specific octane is always best.... keep in mind, no tune is 100% perfect in all conditions, in every gear at every speed and every baro pressure, etc. hence why you're car will adjust timing and higher oct will mitigate that to an extent when it happens

gaspam

You can only add so much timing before the motor starts to lose power regardless of what you have for Octane, so biggest bang for the buck is going to be guys on lower 91 octane

BLKROKT

You're on ****ing drugs if you think any octane booster is getting you 100-104 octane (AKI not RON). It may be able to mask low quality gas, but you're not getting instant race gas from this stuff. Put down the pipe.

Savage-wp

Definitely agree with you there. Proper race gas, is always going to be better than pump gas with octane booster.

gaspam

you're to dense to know the difference between an autoparts store octane booster (crap) and a race fuel concentrate (torco, boostane, etc...), they are not even close to the same and its been tested many times, old news that you still havent heard (by the way, the earth isnt flat but im sure you think all those satellite images of earth are a hoax lol)

i gained 2 mph trap using torco on my b5 s4

hell, even coxoc gained 20 hp under curve on a old mustang like 10yrs ago

http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-t...ower-additive/

SuperFastYo

gaspam

I dont disagree with this... a uniform mixture of pure race gas is better if you can afford to run it and have a VP/sunco station nearby... concentrates can be harsh on fuel systems but they do work... now octane booster from pepboys, different story (crap)