teepster

new to this forum.
been reading alot on the 09-10 head bolt issue and common problems on the 09 C63.

regardless, i am currently in the market for a used 09 C63.
i have found one, 09 C63, 150,000km for $26,000 (CDN).

problem is, i don't have the service history and MB Canada will not provide me with that info.

what are your guys thoughts on a high mileage 09 C63?

the way i see it, with 150,000km i would assume the head bolt has either been addressed or maybe it's one of the lucky ones which has not been affected?

does anyone know of any SA who would be able to help me pull up the service info?

VIN:WDDGF77X29F272834

Thanks in advance!!

chrisridebike8

"Not affected" should not be part of your lexicon when searching for anything before 2011

AMG3.2

Regarding this: "09-10 head bolt issue and common problems on the 09 C63."

This actually isn't the issue at all. In fact, if you'll do a fair bit of reading, it's actually quite rare.

It can happen, but I'd strongly argue that it's more common for 09/10 owners to talk about this issue (and therefore the plethora of threads about it) as opposed too ever actually experiencing the issue firsthand.

CarHopper

People usually head to forums to complain about a problem which is why you see the headbolts mentioned everywhere here. And yes, I do caution people that the problem does exist when buying those MY cars. But I also emphasize that the issue is indeed quite rare.

I used to have an 09 c63 myself and never had any problems whatsoever with the car. I sold it to someone who found me on Facebook to say how much they loved it and I have never heard them complain about any issues either.

I did end up in a 13 because I liked the interior facelift touches, updated tranny, and LSD. I must admit, the front end of the PFL looks more aggressive at times, but I like the updated version more.

ANYWAYS... I feel like these cars are built to last a good long while. There are a handful getting quite up there in miles but not a whole lot yet. If I were you, I would just drive it to see how it feels, use the resources I know (or google) to see what the value of the car is in your area, and then maybe get some type of protection plan along with it.

D3-AMG

Can you find any CarFax information about it? If the local dealer won't share the service history, will they at least perform a pre-sale inspection (assuming it isn't being sold by that dealer)? Then you can ask if there are any gaps in the service history that would be a concern but not be given the direct information.

Also, trust your gut. Your head doesn't have enough data, your heart will fall in love with the C63 in general. But your gut may tell you if something doesn't feel right about this one. I looked at two others before buying the one I did. So being patient won't hurt you.

teepster

thanks for the replies guys.

is there any way to determine whether the head bolt issue was ever taken care of? like an easy physical way to see? or do you have to take apart the engine to get access?

Jasonoff

Remove the valve cover and physically inspect is the only way to know for sure.

teepster

thanks jason.
my question is, is that an easy task? is there a DIY for it?

Mort

It is not a hard job to R&R a valve cover. The standard time from AlldataDIY is 1.9 hours. You will need a torque wrench to fasten it back down. If the heads on the headbolts are female torx it has the older style bolts. If the heads are male torx they have been replaced.

I doubt anyone will let you take their engine apart to have a look though.

AMG3.2

Wouldn't you need to remove the cams to see the bolts? Or are there a couple that are visible with cams in place?

Mort

You should be able to see the bolt heads under the cams. In any case the rear two headbolts should clearly visible.

Jasonoff

Should be easy enough to see. They're not directly under the cams.

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post6568975 <-- Specific post with pics

And if you're too short to see in the back

realjones88

No one is likely to pull the service info until you are the actual owner of the car and for sure you won't be able to open up the engine before buying.

With that many miles I'd be more concerned about suspension and other bits that will begin to wear out and potentially needed replacing soon than the head bolts.

teepster

so been reading through all the head bolt forums but alot of different information so hopefully someone can answer this for me.

regarding replacing the head bolts, there seems to be two options i believe (correct me if i'm wrong) in terms of parts.

1) replace with weistec bolts which seems to run about $1000-1200 for the materials alone.

2) OEM mercedes revised head bolts which are about $10/piece ($200 for 20)

is there any real advantage to going with the weistec bolts for 5-6x the price?

EDIT: i got a quote from McNally Auto (Toronto, Canada) for about $875 (Parts & 5 hours labor) to replace 20 head bolts, 2 cam shaft bolts, 2 valve cover gaskets. from what i've read people are saying anywhere from $2-5k to replace this. Does something seem off, am i missing something that also needs to be done when replacing the head bolts? I'm assuming they would be using OEM mb head bolts since it's being charged at $11.46/each.

chrisridebike8

Unless you plan on adding a blower down the road, the revised OEM bolts should be just fine. As far as the quote, I am not sure. I've usually read that it's around $3,000 to have them done preemptively. $875 seems low and I have no experience with that shop. I'll let others chime in on that.

teepster

thanks for the insight.

here is the quote breakdown:

cylinder head bolts - $11.46 x 20 = 229.20
cam shaft bolts - $14.30 x 2 = $28.60
valve cover gaskets - $33.15 x 2 = $66.30
labour - 5 hours x $110 hour = $550

total: $874.10 + tax = $987.73

thoughts?

Jasonoff

That's with HG replacement. Quite more involved than just a HB swap.

teepster

so the $875 range sounds about right for just replacing the head bolts?
is there a need to replace the head gasket as well?

also, if it's simply replacing the head bolts and it's being charged at 5 hours i would assume they will be doing 1 at a time?

i've also read that the lifters should be replaced, is this recommended and required? would this add a significant amount of labor on top of the simple HB swap?

AMG3.2

Absolutely not. I've been quoted $3k for the one at a time replacement method with OE revised bolts and M156 buckets.

Jasonoff

Why not? If it's just the bolts and they're only charging 5h labor that sounds about right to me. It's not a big job, and 5h for as shop who have done a bunch is likely reasonable.

With buckets isn't what he asked. Don't they add another $1k in parts?

Either way, $3k for OEM HBs and SLS buckets is a good ole raping.

Not if it hasn't been compromised.

AMG3.2

Hmm. This is literally the first time I'm hearing that anything related to this job is less than $2k, let alone $1k. Throughout most of the threads that I've read, unless I've missed a few, seem to mention the costs at $3K+ for the one bolt method and $5k+ when removing the heads in totality.

If this can be done for under $1k, I don't know who the hell I've been getting quotes from as $3k has been the cheapest I've gotten.

EDIT: Just found this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...too-cheap.html

At $1900, OP is question whether this is too cheap. This is with ARP studs so without those, $900 in labor. Hmm.

Jasonoff

Someone local paid under $3k CDN tax in for a head yank using all OEM parts. I think the local stealership was around $3200 before tax (+13%) for the same job.

Find a shop that has done it before. You're getting quoted way too high.

AMG3.2

I think this is the issue.

The Bay Area is either Ferrari/Lamborghini/SLS filled or M3 filled and thus there are BMW shops left and right that know the S54/S65 engines like the back of their hands, but when it comes to the M156, no one knows anything about it.

Thus, when I call a shop, even a euro shop, they get someone intimidated by the job and quote high.

Anyways back on track. Sorry to thread jack OP. I take my statement back. Maybe your quote is reasonable...

teepster

yea hard to get a proper gauge when the quotes range anywhere for $1k to $5k.
spoke with the shop and the mechanic (a previous mb tech) said during his time at mb he only seen like 2 C63's with this issue.

he recommended not touching the head bolts unless you get coolant issues, otherwise you're just potentially opening up an unnecessary can of worms.

i also asked about whether i should replace the engine & tranny mounts, which again, same answer... unless you are getting vibrations, just leave it be.

the head bolts i'll likely just leave it be. however with the mounts, would you guys recommend getting it done as a preventative maintenance item? the price for that was $995 for engine, tranny mounts and labor.

Jasonoff

Maybe, but given time I'm willing to bet a small amount of cheese this will happen eventually. The bolts will continue to corrode weakening that already small sectionalism area in the bolt head.

Why introduce coolant into the lubrication system if you don't have to?

Or just hold out until there's a recall 5yrs from now