2009 C63 AMG
#1
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2009 C63 AMG
new to this forum.
been reading alot on the 09-10 head bolt issue and common problems on the 09 C63.
regardless, i am currently in the market for a used 09 C63.
i have found one, 09 C63, 150,000km for $26,000 (CDN).
problem is, i don't have the service history and MB Canada will not provide me with that info.
what are your guys thoughts on a high mileage 09 C63?
the way i see it, with 150,000km i would assume the head bolt has either been addressed or maybe it's one of the lucky ones which has not been affected?
does anyone know of any SA who would be able to help me pull up the service info?
VIN:WDDGF77X29F272834
Thanks in advance!!
been reading alot on the 09-10 head bolt issue and common problems on the 09 C63.
regardless, i am currently in the market for a used 09 C63.
i have found one, 09 C63, 150,000km for $26,000 (CDN).
problem is, i don't have the service history and MB Canada will not provide me with that info.
what are your guys thoughts on a high mileage 09 C63?
the way i see it, with 150,000km i would assume the head bolt has either been addressed or maybe it's one of the lucky ones which has not been affected?
does anyone know of any SA who would be able to help me pull up the service info?
VIN:WDDGF77X29F272834
Thanks in advance!!
#2
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"Not affected" should not be part of your lexicon when searching for anything before 2011
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#3
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Regarding this: "09-10 head bolt issue and common problems on the 09 C63."
This actually isn't the issue at all. In fact, if you'll do a fair bit of reading, it's actually quite rare.
It can happen, but I'd strongly argue that it's more common for 09/10 owners to talk about this issue (and therefore the plethora of threads about it) as opposed too ever actually experiencing the issue firsthand.
This actually isn't the issue at all. In fact, if you'll do a fair bit of reading, it's actually quite rare.
It can happen, but I'd strongly argue that it's more common for 09/10 owners to talk about this issue (and therefore the plethora of threads about it) as opposed too ever actually experiencing the issue firsthand.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#4
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People usually head to forums to complain about a problem which is why you see the headbolts mentioned everywhere here. And yes, I do caution people that the problem does exist when buying those MY cars. But I also emphasize that the issue is indeed quite rare.
I used to have an 09 c63 myself and never had any problems whatsoever with the car. I sold it to someone who found me on Facebook to say how much they loved it and I have never heard them complain about any issues either.
I did end up in a 13 because I liked the interior facelift touches, updated tranny, and LSD. I must admit, the front end of the PFL looks more aggressive at times, but I like the updated version more.
ANYWAYS... I feel like these cars are built to last a good long while. There are a handful getting quite up there in miles but not a whole lot yet. If I were you, I would just drive it to see how it feels, use the resources I know (or google) to see what the value of the car is in your area, and then maybe get some type of protection plan along with it.
I used to have an 09 c63 myself and never had any problems whatsoever with the car. I sold it to someone who found me on Facebook to say how much they loved it and I have never heard them complain about any issues either.
I did end up in a 13 because I liked the interior facelift touches, updated tranny, and LSD. I must admit, the front end of the PFL looks more aggressive at times, but I like the updated version more.
ANYWAYS... I feel like these cars are built to last a good long while. There are a handful getting quite up there in miles but not a whole lot yet. If I were you, I would just drive it to see how it feels, use the resources I know (or google) to see what the value of the car is in your area, and then maybe get some type of protection plan along with it.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#5
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Can you find any CarFax information about it? If the local dealer won't share the service history, will they at least perform a pre-sale inspection (assuming it isn't being sold by that dealer)? Then you can ask if there are any gaps in the service history that would be a concern but not be given the direct information.
Also, trust your gut. Your head doesn't have enough data, your heart will fall in love with the C63 in general. But your gut may tell you if something doesn't feel right about this one. I looked at two others before buying the one I did. So being patient won't hurt you.
Also, trust your gut. Your head doesn't have enough data, your heart will fall in love with the C63 in general. But your gut may tell you if something doesn't feel right about this one. I looked at two others before buying the one I did. So being patient won't hurt you.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#6
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thanks for the replies guys.
is there any way to determine whether the head bolt issue was ever taken care of? like an easy physical way to see? or do you have to take apart the engine to get access?
is there any way to determine whether the head bolt issue was ever taken care of? like an easy physical way to see? or do you have to take apart the engine to get access?
#8
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#9
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2012 C63;1971 280SE 3.5(Sold);2023 EQS 450 SUV 4 Matic (Wife's)
It is not a hard job to R&R a valve cover. The standard time from AlldataDIY is 1.9 hours. You will need a torque wrench to fasten it back down. If the heads on the headbolts are female torx it has the older style bolts. If the heads are male torx they have been replaced.
I doubt anyone will let you take their engine apart to have a look though.
I doubt anyone will let you take their engine apart to have a look though.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
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teepster (08-19-2016)
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#12
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https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post6568975 <-- Specific post with pics
And if you're too short to see in the back
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#13
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No one is likely to pull the service info until you are the actual owner of the car and for sure you won't be able to open up the engine before buying.
With that many miles I'd be more concerned about suspension and other bits that will begin to wear out and potentially needed replacing soon than the head bolts.
With that many miles I'd be more concerned about suspension and other bits that will begin to wear out and potentially needed replacing soon than the head bolts.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#14
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so been reading through all the head bolt forums but alot of different information so hopefully someone can answer this for me.
regarding replacing the head bolts, there seems to be two options i believe (correct me if i'm wrong) in terms of parts.
1) replace with weistec bolts which seems to run about $1000-1200 for the materials alone.
2) OEM mercedes revised head bolts which are about $10/piece ($200 for 20)
is there any real advantage to going with the weistec bolts for 5-6x the price?
EDIT: i got a quote from McNally Auto (Toronto, Canada) for about $875 (Parts & 5 hours labor) to replace 20 head bolts, 2 cam shaft bolts, 2 valve cover gaskets. from what i've read people are saying anywhere from $2-5k to replace this. Does something seem off, am i missing something that also needs to be done when replacing the head bolts? I'm assuming they would be using OEM mb head bolts since it's being charged at $11.46/each.
regarding replacing the head bolts, there seems to be two options i believe (correct me if i'm wrong) in terms of parts.
1) replace with weistec bolts which seems to run about $1000-1200 for the materials alone.
2) OEM mercedes revised head bolts which are about $10/piece ($200 for 20)
is there any real advantage to going with the weistec bolts for 5-6x the price?
EDIT: i got a quote from McNally Auto (Toronto, Canada) for about $875 (Parts & 5 hours labor) to replace 20 head bolts, 2 cam shaft bolts, 2 valve cover gaskets. from what i've read people are saying anywhere from $2-5k to replace this. Does something seem off, am i missing something that also needs to be done when replacing the head bolts? I'm assuming they would be using OEM mb head bolts since it's being charged at $11.46/each.
Last edited by teepster; 08-18-2016 at 10:35 AM. Reason: additional info
#15
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Unless you plan on adding a blower down the road, the revised OEM bolts should be just fine. As far as the quote, I am not sure. I've usually read that it's around $3,000 to have them done preemptively. $875 seems low and I have no experience with that shop. I'll let others chime in on that.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#16
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Unless you plan on adding a blower down the road, the revised OEM bolts should be just fine. As far as the quote, I am not sure. I've usually read that it's around $3,000 to have them done preemptively. $875 seems low and I have no experience with that shop. I'll let others chime in on that.
here is the quote breakdown:
cylinder head bolts - $11.46 x 20 = 229.20
cam shaft bolts - $14.30 x 2 = $28.60
valve cover gaskets - $33.15 x 2 = $66.30
labour - 5 hours x $110 hour = $550
total: $874.10 + tax = $987.73
thoughts?
#17
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Unless you plan on adding a blower down the road, the revised OEM bolts should be just fine. As far as the quote, I am not sure. I've usually read that it's around $3,000 to have them done preemptively. $875 seems low and I have no experience with that shop. I'll let others chime in on that.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#18
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so the $875 range sounds about right for just replacing the head bolts?
is there a need to replace the head gasket as well?
also, if it's simply replacing the head bolts and it's being charged at 5 hours i would assume they will be doing 1 at a time?
i've also read that the lifters should be replaced, is this recommended and required? would this add a significant amount of labor on top of the simple HB swap?
is there a need to replace the head gasket as well?
also, if it's simply replacing the head bolts and it's being charged at 5 hours i would assume they will be doing 1 at a time?
i've also read that the lifters should be replaced, is this recommended and required? would this add a significant amount of labor on top of the simple HB swap?
#19
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so the $875 range sounds about right for just replacing the head bolts?
is there a need to replace the head gasket as well?
also, if it's simply replacing the head bolts and it's being charged at 5 hours i would assume they will be doing 1 at a time?
i've also read that the lifters should be replaced, is this recommended and required? would this add a significant amount of labor on top of the simple HB swap?
is there a need to replace the head gasket as well?
also, if it's simply replacing the head bolts and it's being charged at 5 hours i would assume they will be doing 1 at a time?
i've also read that the lifters should be replaced, is this recommended and required? would this add a significant amount of labor on top of the simple HB swap?
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#20
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With buckets isn't what he asked. Don't they add another $1k in parts?
Either way, $3k for OEM HBs and SLS buckets is a good ole raping.
Not if it hasn't been compromised.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#21
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Why not? If it's just the bolts and they're only charging 5h labor that sounds about right to me. It's not a big job, and 5h for as shop who have done a bunch is likely reasonable.
With buckets isn't what he asked. Don't they add another $1k in parts?
Either way, $3k for OEM HBs and SLS buckets is a good ole raping.
Not if it hasn't been compromised.
With buckets isn't what he asked. Don't they add another $1k in parts?
Either way, $3k for OEM HBs and SLS buckets is a good ole raping.
Not if it hasn't been compromised.
If this can be done for under $1k, I don't know who the hell I've been getting quotes from as $3k has been the cheapest I've gotten.
EDIT: Just found this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...too-cheap.html
At $1900, OP is question whether this is too cheap. This is with ARP studs so without those, $900 in labor. Hmm.
Last edited by AMG3.2; 08-18-2016 at 09:07 PM.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#22
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Hmm. This is literally the first time I'm hearing that anything related to this job is less than $2k, let alone $1k. Throughout most of the threads that I've read, unless I've missed a few, seem to mention the costs at $3K+ for the one bolt method and $5k+ when removing the heads in totality.
If this can be done for under $1k, I don't know who the hell I've been getting quotes from as $3k has been the cheapest I've gotten.
EDIT: Just found this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...too-cheap.html
At $1900, OP is question whether this is too cheap. This is with ARP studs so without those, $900 in labor. Hmm.
If this can be done for under $1k, I don't know who the hell I've been getting quotes from as $3k has been the cheapest I've gotten.
EDIT: Just found this thread: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...too-cheap.html
At $1900, OP is question whether this is too cheap. This is with ARP studs so without those, $900 in labor. Hmm.
Find a shop that has done it before. You're getting quoted way too high.
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#23
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C63 AMG, P30
The Bay Area is either Ferrari/Lamborghini/SLS filled or M3 filled and thus there are BMW shops left and right that know the S54/S65 engines like the back of their hands, but when it comes to the M156, no one knows anything about it.
Thus, when I call a shop, even a euro shop, they get someone intimidated by the job and quote high.
Anyways back on track. Sorry to thread jack OP. I take my statement back. Maybe your quote is reasonable...
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teepster (08-19-2016)
#24
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yea hard to get a proper gauge when the quotes range anywhere for $1k to $5k.
spoke with the shop and the mechanic (a previous mb tech) said during his time at mb he only seen like 2 C63's with this issue.
he recommended not touching the head bolts unless you get coolant issues, otherwise you're just potentially opening up an unnecessary can of worms.
i also asked about whether i should replace the engine & tranny mounts, which again, same answer... unless you are getting vibrations, just leave it be.
the head bolts i'll likely just leave it be. however with the mounts, would you guys recommend getting it done as a preventative maintenance item? the price for that was $995 for engine, tranny mounts and labor.
spoke with the shop and the mechanic (a previous mb tech) said during his time at mb he only seen like 2 C63's with this issue.
he recommended not touching the head bolts unless you get coolant issues, otherwise you're just potentially opening up an unnecessary can of worms.
i also asked about whether i should replace the engine & tranny mounts, which again, same answer... unless you are getting vibrations, just leave it be.
the head bolts i'll likely just leave it be. however with the mounts, would you guys recommend getting it done as a preventative maintenance item? the price for that was $995 for engine, tranny mounts and labor.
#25
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Why introduce coolant into the lubrication system if you don't have to?
Or just hold out until there's a recall 5yrs from now
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teepster (08-19-2016)