throttle % wide open stock vs tunes?
#52
MBWorld Fanatic!
Originally Posted by BLKROKT
There. Fastest guy on the board said it. Are we done now?
87% *IS* indicative of a tune. It's a known fact.
87% *IS* indicative of a tune. It's a known fact.
And this is the exact reason why you should not try to stop the research for factual data.
BTW, all those search results?
The numbers for untuned don't even match, some type 60%, some 70 degrees, some 74% and not one of them posted first hand not tuned numbers, only first hand tuned numbers.
First of all a lot more detail has to be discussed, so that we can sift out the useful information.
Was it 87% opening, or was it 87 degrees angle of opening?
Was it Absolute throttle position or relative throttle position?
Take a look below at the throttle percentage with accelerator resting.
How does it correlate to the throttle actuator percentage? Is the actuator supposed to peg 100%, or not?
Easiest way is to have one known stock car obd2 readings. I think that is mine, but let's see a stock car owner post numbers, to confirm mines.
Last edited by Vladds; 09-21-2016 at 12:56 PM.
#53
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
It IS NOT.
And this is the exact reason why you should not try to stop the research for factual data.
BTW, all those search results?
The numbers for untuned don't even match, some type 60%, some 70 degrees, some 74% and not one of them posted first hand not tuned numbers, only first hand tuned numbers.
First of all a lot more detail has to be discussed, so that we can sift out the useful information.
Was it 87% opening, or was it 87 degrees angle of opening?
Was it Absolute throttle position or relative throttle position?
Take a look below at the throttle percentage with accelerator resting.
How does it correlate to the throttle actuator percentage? Is the actuator supposed to peg 100%, or not?
Easiest way is to have one known stock car obd2 readings. I think that is mine, but let's see a stock car owner post numbers, to confirm mines.
And this is the exact reason why you should not try to stop the research for factual data.
BTW, all those search results?
The numbers for untuned don't even match, some type 60%, some 70 degrees, some 74% and not one of them posted first hand not tuned numbers, only first hand tuned numbers.
First of all a lot more detail has to be discussed, so that we can sift out the useful information.
Was it 87% opening, or was it 87 degrees angle of opening?
Was it Absolute throttle position or relative throttle position?
Take a look below at the throttle percentage with accelerator resting.
How does it correlate to the throttle actuator percentage? Is the actuator supposed to peg 100%, or not?
Easiest way is to have one known stock car obd2 readings. I think that is mine, but let's see a stock car owner post numbers, to confirm mines.
#54
MBWorld Fanatic!
Additional info here:
So with the pedal floored:
Throttle position TP is 87%. This is an absolute parameter, since with accelerator resting, it is at 15%
Throttle Actuator Command Percentage TAC_PCT is at 100%.This is relative, since it is at 1% with pedal resting.
Throttle position relative TP_R is 74%, this by definition is the relative actual opening percentage and I interpret that 3% opening of it with pedal resting as a mechanical value (maybe it is opened at 3% for idle, even with key off)
TP_B is another absolute reading.
The others are Accelerator pedal position sensors, that are relative.
So here is what I think:
I obviously acknowledge what people that have tunes posted as far as the percentage that they see.
My question is regarding the numerous details (which of the throttle position differs, were there angle, or percentage differences and is it possible that the difference only shows while driving and over 5500RPM).
I continue to think that my car is not tuned.
At this stage I think that maybe the TP_R, the relative position is where the difference shows, which would mean that my car is at 74%, while the tuned guys are seeing the TP_R at 87%.
Obviously, the confusion here is that the "generic" TP, is an absolute value and it so happens that it reads 87%, therefore I try to get the details sorted out.
So with the pedal floored:
Throttle position TP is 87%. This is an absolute parameter, since with accelerator resting, it is at 15%
Throttle Actuator Command Percentage TAC_PCT is at 100%.This is relative, since it is at 1% with pedal resting.
Throttle position relative TP_R is 74%, this by definition is the relative actual opening percentage and I interpret that 3% opening of it with pedal resting as a mechanical value (maybe it is opened at 3% for idle, even with key off)
TP_B is another absolute reading.
The others are Accelerator pedal position sensors, that are relative.
So here is what I think:
I obviously acknowledge what people that have tunes posted as far as the percentage that they see.
My question is regarding the numerous details (which of the throttle position differs, were there angle, or percentage differences and is it possible that the difference only shows while driving and over 5500RPM).
I continue to think that my car is not tuned.
At this stage I think that maybe the TP_R, the relative position is where the difference shows, which would mean that my car is at 74%, while the tuned guys are seeing the TP_R at 87%.
Obviously, the confusion here is that the "generic" TP, is an absolute value and it so happens that it reads 87%, therefore I try to get the details sorted out.
Last edited by Vladds; 09-25-2016 at 08:32 PM.
#56
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,063
Received 2,845 Likes
on
1,678 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
#60
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Africa
Posts: 475
Received 36 Likes
on
29 Posts
2012 C63 AMG, 1991 325iS. Ex: 2011 C63 P31
Hi guys
I've been interested in this for a while.
I have a P31, but I don't know if it has a tune or not.
Anyway here is a pic of the logs using OBD2 tool.
I've been interested in this for a while.
I have a P31, but I don't know if it has a tune or not.
Anyway here is a pic of the logs using OBD2 tool.
#62
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm hoping to get my car scanned on STAR tomorrow at Eurocharged.
From what I understand, via an OBDII scanner thing the trump figure is 89% or something like that, but via STAR it's 78% (or something in that range).
I'm told that I will be able to obtain individual throttle body voltage at WOT, which should tell us which one of my throttle bodies (or both) have crapped out.
Does anybody here know what the max voltage per throttle body should be? I'm guessing we're talking about TPS voltage.
From what I understand, via an OBDII scanner thing the trump figure is 89% or something like that, but via STAR it's 78% (or something in that range).
I'm told that I will be able to obtain individual throttle body voltage at WOT, which should tell us which one of my throttle bodies (or both) have crapped out.
Does anybody here know what the max voltage per throttle body should be? I'm guessing we're talking about TPS voltage.
#63
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hi guys, I got my car scanned today at Eurocharged.
For reference, on a STAR system, the throttle should be 78% when fully opened.
Voltage per throttle body should be 4.35V when fully opened.
For reference, on a STAR system, the throttle should be 78% when fully opened.
Voltage per throttle body should be 4.35V when fully opened.
#64
i highly doubt your TBs have **** the bed ...the only reason the other guys are breaking TBs is because their pushing 600-700+ HP through them lol
#66
MBWorld Fanatic!
Looks good ^ Thanks for sharing.
On non-STAR systems, the trump figure is indeed 87% as it's worked out as a ratio of 100....or something like that. I can't remember the exact ins and outs of it.
On non-STAR systems, the trump figure is indeed 87% as it's worked out as a ratio of 100....or something like that. I can't remember the exact ins and outs of it.
#68
MBWorld Fanatic!
Here are some logs.
The first one from the left is with traction control on.
I'll post the details:
RPM, in pink climbs to 6610 RPM
Throttle position maxes at 60% and relative to 48%, at 5250 RPM. Then although still floored they drop to 52 & 40 %
The second one is with traction control in sport mode
RPM climbs to 6900 RPM
Throttle position maxes at 61% and relative to 48%, at 5100 RPM. Then although still floored, they drop to 52 & 40 %
The third one is with traction control off
RPM climb to 5850
Throttle position maxes at 60% and relative to 48%, at 5150 RPM. Then, although still floored, they drop to 52 & 40 %
Fourth one is with traction control off
RPM climb to 6230
Throttle position maxes at 60% and relative to 48%, at 5050 RPM. Then although still floored, they drop to 52 & 40 %
Here's how I interpret this:
With the engine off, the throttle opens to the stops, which are 87% and 74% relative.
With the engine on, un-tuned, the most the throttle will open is 60% with relative 48% and this is no further than 5200 RPM, then it drops to 52 & 40%.
In order to determine if you have a tune, you cannot check the logger with the engine off, you have to do pulls and don't worry about traction control, the results throttle wise end up being the same.
The first one from the left is with traction control on.
I'll post the details:
RPM, in pink climbs to 6610 RPM
Throttle position maxes at 60% and relative to 48%, at 5250 RPM. Then although still floored they drop to 52 & 40 %
The second one is with traction control in sport mode
RPM climbs to 6900 RPM
Throttle position maxes at 61% and relative to 48%, at 5100 RPM. Then although still floored, they drop to 52 & 40 %
The third one is with traction control off
RPM climb to 5850
Throttle position maxes at 60% and relative to 48%, at 5150 RPM. Then, although still floored, they drop to 52 & 40 %
Fourth one is with traction control off
RPM climb to 6230
Throttle position maxes at 60% and relative to 48%, at 5050 RPM. Then although still floored, they drop to 52 & 40 %
Here's how I interpret this:
With the engine off, the throttle opens to the stops, which are 87% and 74% relative.
With the engine on, un-tuned, the most the throttle will open is 60% with relative 48% and this is no further than 5200 RPM, then it drops to 52 & 40%.
In order to determine if you have a tune, you cannot check the logger with the engine off, you have to do pulls and don't worry about traction control, the results throttle wise end up being the same.
Last edited by Vladds; 10-23-2016 at 01:52 PM.
#69
MBWorld Fanatic!
Brilliant findings ^^^ thanks for sharing.
Vladds, is your car stock?
I find that information really interesting. My scan was done with the engine off. I think I now need to get it scanned with the engine running on a dyno or on the road.
Vladds, is your car stock?
I find that information really interesting. My scan was done with the engine off. I think I now need to get it scanned with the engine running on a dyno or on the road.
#73
Here's how I interpret this:
With the engine off, the throttle opens to the stops, which are 87% and 74% relative.
With the engine on, un-tuned, the most the throttle will open is 60% with relative 48% and this is no further than 5200 RPM, then it drops to 52 & 40%.
In order to determine if you have a tune, you cannot check the logger with the engine off, you have to do pulls and don't worry about traction control, the results throttle wise end up being the same.
With the engine off, the throttle opens to the stops, which are 87% and 74% relative.
With the engine on, un-tuned, the most the throttle will open is 60% with relative 48% and this is no further than 5200 RPM, then it drops to 52 & 40%.
In order to determine if you have a tune, you cannot check the logger with the engine off, you have to do pulls and don't worry about traction control, the results throttle wise end up being the same.
#74
Super Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 935
Received 74 Likes
on
58 Posts
a unicorn tuned p30 e63
my car only spun to 6792 rpm and throttle was 86.3% my car has the unicorn tune as most know. i did just bore my throttle body shafts, LTH, custom intake mods, row and thermal intake spacers.
my buddies car has row, ec v6 tune
his throttle went 87.5 mins did 86.3 and IAT is also a mystery.
thoughts?
#75
MBWorld Fanatic!
I'm confused....seems like a negligible variance between the two.......
Are you asking why your throttles opened to 86.3 vs his 87.5....?
Are you asking why your throttles opened to 86.3 vs his 87.5....?