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I'm looking for a 19" set of wheels to replace my original 18". The idea to go with 19" would be to allow black series brake upgrade from racing brake to fit.
The purpose is to drive the car on roads and track (50-50) so the strength of the wheel is an important factor.
I found out the OZ Racing Hyper GT HLT to be designed for race with few interesting features, described on the specs:
•HLT technology•Side cut spokes derived from racing wheels for weight reduction and maximum torsional rigidity effect•Reinforced racing outer lip with special spoke/barrel junction to improve aerodynamic performance and increase stiffness•Rose markings derived from GT3 and LMP1•Inner rim (back side) derived from LMP1 gives maximum stiffness, prevents camber loss, in order to maximize corner speed
It's advertised on an M2 that is a lighter car than the C63.
Actually it's a flow formed wheel with a heat treatment, what they call HLT, so I could expect it's not as strong as a forged wheel. Anyway, the MAX load given by OZ in the spec is 690kg for each wheel. Will it be enough? If I recall correctly some forged wheels shows similar numbers?
Dimensions available are as following:
Front:
8.5*19 ET38 Max Load 715kg
8.5*19 ET44 Max Load 690kg
9*19 ET45 Max Load 690kg
Back:
9.5*19 ET45 Max Load 690kg
10*19 ET45 Max Load 690kg
What size would you guys recommend? I would prefer the wider ones front and back, as I can ask a shop to roll a bit the fenders if needed. But is the extra Max Load of the 8.5*19 ET38, from 690 to 715kg, considerable?
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
I would never use a flow formed wheel on track. I made a post about exactly this not too long ago. Forgeline for instance cuts the weight rating on their wheel in half when using r-compound tires, and that’s probably a good rule of thumb for any kind of track use as well. I’d look at monoblock forged only.
Dont you think that really depends on the form of track use though? I mean, for lapping days etc, most guys (despite what they may think) aren't getting their cars to 9/10th's performance.Totally get what you are saying for racing and/or regular, hard track usage but I think there are plenty of owners who get out for the occasional day or two each summer and they'll be fine. 10% of us drive harder on the street than 90% of us will drive on the track.
EDIT: Damn, I really dont get the formatting of this new system here. Just a bloody visual mess when I post. And whats with 'quick reply' popping up with every thread I open? ROKT, you know how to change that?
Dont you think that really depends on the form of track use though? I mean, for lapping days etc, most guys (despite what they may think) aren't getting their cars to 9/10th's performance.Totally get what you are saying for racing and/or regular, hard track usage but I think there are plenty of owners who get out for the occasional day or two each summer and they'll be fine. 10% of us drive harder on the street than 90% of us will drive on the track.
EDIT: Damn, I really dont get the formatting of this new system here. Just a bloody visual mess when I post. And whats with 'quick reply' popping up with every thread I open? ROKT, you know how to change that?
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by 604 C63
Dont you think that really depends on the form of track use though? I mean, for lapping days etc, most guys (despite what they may think) aren't getting their cars to 9/10th's performance.Totally get what you are saying for racing and/or regular, hard track usage but I think there are plenty of owners who get out for the occasional day or two each summer and they'll be fine. 10% of us drive harder on the street than 90% of us will drive on the track.
EDIT: Damn, I really dont get the formatting of this new system here. Just a bloody visual mess when I post. And whats with 'quick reply' popping up with every thread I open? ROKT, you know how to change that?
Do whatever you want, but the stress your wheels go through on a race track are an order of magnitude higher than anything you’ll ever experience on the street. Even at less than 9/10ths. I’ve seen too many pics/videos or heard stories of flow/rotary/cast wheels getting destroyed on track to put my health and safety at any kind of avoidable risk like that. If you’re getting wheels for show that’s one thing. But the OP specifically stated that these will be new track wheels, and if you read his post history you would know that he’s not just lapping once in awhile. It’s a very poor choice any possible way you look at it.
What he ^ said. If you're going to track the car, especially a heavy one like a C63, forged wheels only. Not "rotary" forged either, that's some marketing bull****.
What he ^ said. If you're going to track the car, especially a heavy one like a C63, forged wheels only. Not "rotary" forged either, that's some marketing bull****.
haha, thanks for all interesting inputs. Yes i drive the C63 quite hard on the track and the Shanghai F1 is very demanding on the car with 2 long straights, heavy brakes and various curves. I'm not just playing on the track. you can see few picts below to give you an idea, tires were 70% new and brakes pads + disks where new, and that's how they look like after 6 sessions of 15 minutes. Many people here advertise the Endless MX72 for track but i cooked them in just 4 sessions and they turned to dust, digging big waves (1mm) into the rotors.
Using Torfeo R or even cheaper Yokohama AD08R, I see some picks at 1.3g during braking and 1.1g during cornering. Once I saw a jump to 1.5g when I drove on a curb (see the Harry's laptimer screnshot).
I trust my car, so I just get all of it on the track.
Back to the wheel topic:
Now, I am still using the original OEM 18" 5 spokes wheels, seems like they are strong enough.
I was first thinking to go for the 507 OEM forged wheels. I asked a friend working in AMG who was a professional AMG driver, and he responded that the design of the 507 wheel is not strong enough for real/heavy track driving. According to him a design with more spokes is preferred. He also suggested to go for forged wheels and mentioned TWS.
In the meanwhile, a friend can get very good discount for me on this new OZ wheel, so I checked it and saw some interesting race features... I'm worried it's mostly marketing speech, or more appropriate for lighter cars. So asking some advice here. I guess if this OZ wheel was forged instead of flowformed, it would just be perfect.
So I'll still look around for more options, better at affordable prices, and easy to source from Asia: BBS looks very nice but too expensive...; RAYS has only fitments for BMW; I'll study TWS (Japan), and also found BC forged (Taiwan)
I also know a wheel factory owner here in China who can build custom forged wheel according to my preference/design. He confirmed he is using 6061 aluminum billet, but I'm not sure if there more to check? He is now building a wheel for the F430 of a friend, I'll keep a close look at those.
Any other track wheel suggestion, with C63 fitment?
I would never use a flow formed wheel on track. I made a post about exactly this not too long ago. Forgeline for instance cuts the weight rating on their wheel in half when using r-compound tires, and that’s probably a good rule of thumb for any kind of track use as well. I’d look at monoblock forged only.
Good, I remember I saw your post with that photo but I couldn't manage to find it back. I also didn't remember that the weight is cut in half . Thanks for this remind.
If that's the way it is, it will be very hard to find a wheel that is lightweight & strong enough for the C63 at the same time.
Quick calculation (in kg ..) car weight with all fluids and driver could be rounded at 2000kg (it's a rounded safe number voluntary above) - 57% at front --> 1140kg in front --> 570kg for each wheel. Then if I see a maximum of 1.5G on track --> 855kg wheel load
Actually, not many wheels that are on the market, even forged, are able to match this load.
If I remember well, you are using VORSTEINER flow forged wheels, what is flow forged? what is the load given by the manufacturer? Did you find other alternatives for wheels more capable on track?
Wait - you cooked MX72's? Dayum. So what are you using now?
I use Ferodo Racing DSUNO pads - they are much better in my opinion and I can source them cheaper than the Endless MX72.
The long straight at Shanghai F1 allows the C63 to speed up to almost 250km/h before a heavy brake for a sharp turn at 60-70km/h. It's very hard on brakes (pads and rotors).
I can start breaking at the 200m sign with Ferodo pads and their lifetime is the best I experienced so far. They also allow a very good modulation and control.
The MX72 was very aggressive on the rotors.
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Originally Posted by julours
Good, I remember I saw your post with that photo but I couldn't manage to find it back. I also didn't remember that the weight is cut in half . Thanks for this remind.
If that's the way it is, it will be very hard to find a wheel that is lightweight & strong enough for the C63 at the same time.
Quick calculation (in kg ..) car weight with all fluids and driver could be rounded at 2000kg (it's a rounded safe number voluntary above) - 57% at front --> 1140kg in front --> 570kg for each wheel. Then if I see a maximum of 1.5G on track --> 855kg wheel load
Actually, not many wheels that are on the market, even forged, are able to match this load.
If I remember well, you are using VORSTEINER flow forged wheels, what is flow forged? what is the load given by the manufacturer? Did you find other alternatives for wheels more capable on track?
No way, I’m using Vorsteiner monoblock forged. They are beefy and probably just enough. I’m going to look at some Forgeline custom wheels over the winter if I go LW widebody, which I think is likely. I’d also look at HRE as they make some race-spec wheels that are more robust than their regular monoblock forged. There is not much choice. I think the Forgeline in the custom fitment I’m looking at (19x10F/19x12R) is going to run at least $6k.
Not all forged wheels are the same, so you have to look at construction and load ratings. I’d rather not guess by going with an unproven manufacturer, so it’s limited to just a handful of brands. Not many people are hard tracking 4000# cars, and even fewer manufacturers make wheels that are up to the task, so the next thing to do is lose weight. It’s a challenge.
Good, I remember I saw your post with that photo but I couldn't manage to find it back. I also didn't remember that the weight is cut in half . Thanks for this remind.
If that's the way it is, it will be very hard to find a wheel that is lightweight & strong enough for the C63 at the same time.
Quick calculation (in kg ..) car weight with all fluids and driver could be rounded at 2000kg (it's a rounded safe number voluntary above) - 57% at front --> 1140kg in front --> 570kg for each wheel. Then if I see a maximum of 1.5G on track --> 855kg wheel load Actually, not many wheels that are on the market, even forged, are able to match this load.
Not many but just enough to get you what you need. HRE produces about a dozen wheels off the top of my head that can be built to withstand the load rating you need AND still be extremely lightweight. HRE R101, RC100, and RC103 just to name a few.
10-26-2017, 02:08 AM
. Thanks for this remind.
