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Blackstone UOA Thread

 
Old 06-29-2018, 09:28 AM
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Blackstone UOA Thread

Ok, let’s see them. With how hard I track my car I figured that I should start keeping track of what’s going on with my oil. Really should have started before the 44O kit was installed, as I was seeing 280F+ temps back then, but the first report saw some high temps as well.
Switched to Rotella T6 dosed with one can of MOS2 for the last report. First two are M1. I think I’m missing one sample inbetween (I know this is the second change with Rotella, probably last Oct and I mislabeled the prior mileages). Each sample has 4-8 track days on it, and although I thought I should probably change more frequently, the analysis shows otherwise. The lead numbers caught these guys a bit off guard and worried me a bit, however the car sees race gas almost exclusively so after a conversation with one of their analysts it’s been chalked up as lead contamination. If it were bearings I would likely see an increase in copper as well, and that number is fine. Here’s what they had to say about that:

Thanks for the email.
All things considered, I am inclined to say the extra lead from your engine is mostly fuel blow-by. That's most often the case when we find high lead like this and everything else is in good shape. You're right that excess lead from bearing wear usually comes with excess copper as well (copper is the second layer in a traditional tri-metal bearing), and copper has been low in your reports.
There's no set level of lead that we would expect from fuel blow-by in this situation. Lead in fuel purchased at the track is often residual from a holding tank or transfer equipment that previously held leaded race fuel. How much of that lead ends up in the oil depends on things like how much is in the gas to start and how long the lead-containing fuel is in service for. If you were to test the fuel, there might only be a couple ppm lead, but it ends up reading higher in the used oil from accumulation over time. Lead from the fuel is not harmful or a problem, but it will mask any lead from the bearings. To put it in perspective, aircraft engines running exclusively 100 LL fuel show lead in the thousands of ppm after a typical service interval, so the amount of lead from blow-by in your samples is relatively low compared to an engine running leaded fuel.
You could try running a full oil change interval using only fuel from a gas station to see if lead comes down, but I understand that may not be practical given the use the car sees.
I hope this offers some additional insight for you. If you have any further questions feel free to send me an email.”








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Old 06-29-2018, 10:46 AM
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I was concerned about lead until you said you use race gas on the track so not worried about it now.

Looks good to me.
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Old 06-29-2018, 02:48 PM
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Hey man I need to do a few tests but it looks pretty good.

on the lead, what kind of race has were you using? Maybe switch to vp racing ms109 since that should be lead free.
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Old 06-29-2018, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by alexanderfoti View Post
I was concerned about lead until you said you use race gas on the track so not worried about it now.

Looks good to me.
Thanks. It seems the level of lead could easily be attributed to contamination, but I’ll keep an eye on things anyway. Car is running great so I’m not worried. I think frequent oil changes are key.


Originally Posted by skratch77 View Post
Hey man I need to do a few tests but it looks pretty good.

on the lead, what kind of race has were you using? Maybe switch to vp racing ms109 since that should be lead free.
Whatever 100 octane unleaded these tracks have at their pump (WGI, NJMP, VIR, etc). Could be contamination from the tanker, or the underground tank. I go through between 20-30gal per day, which adds up to between 60-90gal per event (each session typically uses ~5gal). Yes, 5gal cans of VP109 or Sunoco GT250 would be ideal (and that’s what I do at the dragstrip), however I simply can’t carry that many cans of gas with me. 18 cans of race gas stuffed in my car on a 400mi drive to the track sounds like a bad idea. It’s the same reason I’m not on E85, where you’d have to multiply that by 2.

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Old 07-01-2018, 02:46 PM
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Here's my most recent one..
Mobil 1, 9k miles. Oil temps usually between 221-245F

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Old 07-01-2018, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Sick AF View Post
Here's my most recent one..
Mobil 1, 9k miles. Oil temps usually between 221-245F
“Invalid attachment specified”

I know they come in pdf, but if you want to contribute here you’d make it a lot easier on everyone by just taking a screenshot and posting that....
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Old 07-01-2018, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post


“Invalid attachment specified”

I know they come in pdf, but if you want to contribute here you’d make it a lot easier on everyone by just taking a screenshot and posting that....
my bad, it's been fixed..
I uploaded via mobile and realized how it posted afterwards.
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Old 09-07-2018, 07:43 PM
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New UOA - 2500mi and 9 trackdays on oil



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Old 09-07-2018, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Sick AF View Post

Here's my most recent one..
Mobil 1, 9k miles. Oil temps usually between 221-245F
That's a good one, just reinforces the notion that Mobil 1 0W-40 delivers excellent results in the M156. I'll have an interesting UOA in a few months...my second change with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-40, a very similar oil re. the add pack to M1 but perhaps with a different base stock (PAO - M1 vs GTO - PUP) that is, if M1 is still PAO-based. Oil consumption with PUP over 14k miles is 40% lower than with M1.
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post
New UOA - 2500mi and 9 trackdays on oil
Nice
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Old 09-08-2018, 12:53 PM
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BLKROKT - Thx for the data points. The one thing I'm a little surprised at is that Blackstone didn't comment of the higher copper found in Sample 2 when you experienced the lead spike. Re. potential bearing wear. seeing that would concern me somewhat. Next spring I'm pulling bearings out of another car (S54 motor) known for bearing problems and where I've seen similar lead levels. My plan - cost dependent - is to have some shells tested to see if moly has actually plated on various scars or scuffs. That's my theory, that moly should and can help there assuming bearing wear is not too advanced.
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Old 09-08-2018, 01:25 PM
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Yeah thanks. The copper has been pretty steady, and the levels aren’t any higher than Derek (SICK AF) above on his relatively babied and higher mileage car. Lead lowered with the longer mileage interval this time, and many more track days on the oil vs usual, so I think they’re pretty confident calling it gas contamination. If copper goes up into double digits, then I may have a problem. I’ve seen a few S54 UOAs over on BITOG, and they seem to register in the high double digits in Pb and Cu when the issues start to arise, with 6/1 being considered “normal”. Acceptable limits are 40-100ppm for Pb and 10-50ppm for Cu so I think I’m ok.

The Aluminum is surprising, but it seems that unless it gets closer to the acceptable limit of 30ppm then nothing to worry about. Will keep monitoring but the motor is running strong as ever so I’m not worried.
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Old 09-08-2018, 02:04 PM
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If lead is the only metal spike, isn't that usually caused by fuel and not wear?
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Old 09-09-2018, 03:38 PM
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Dude are you seriously using leaded fuel in a C63? Bahahahahaha I love that you think you're an expert at everything. Wow.
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Old 09-09-2018, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
Dude are you seriously using leaded fuel in a C63? Bahahahahaha I love that you think you're an expert at everything. Wow.
I’m not using leaded fuel you ignorant illiterate fück. Clearly you can’t even understand the big words used above, like “contamination”. Besides, there’s nothing wrong with it if I did, just have to run catless and change out O2s more frequently. You really don’t know shït about anything, I hope you get into a horrific car wreck today, have a nice day.
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:55 PM
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Jim - assuming that it originates from within the engine itself (as opposed to trace amounts introduced with the fuel, which is very likely the case here), I'm told that higher lead on its own usually indicates bearing corrosion, which is a result of OCIs that are too long (the oil has lost the ability to neutralize acids) and is clearly not the case here. Increased bearing lining wear usually manifests by higher lead and copper amounts together, which again doesn't appear to be the case in your UOAs. Excessive bearing lining wear on a number of our ChumpCar Honda engines has brought both the Pb and Cu levels in the double digit range over a 16-hour endurance race (~1500 track miles).
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post


I’m not using leaded fuel you ignorant illiterate fück. Clearly you can’t even understand the big words used above, like “contamination”. Besides, there’s nothing wrong with it if I did, just have to run catless and change out O2s more frequently. You really don’t know shït about anything, I hope you get into a horrific car wreck today, have a nice day.
Here we go again with the death threats, lmao, What a child. I like how you've found little workarounds to the filters too. Did it take you the 10 years you've been on this forum to figure that out? Hah, baby.

"Oh yeah if i do all the dumb stuff i can run leaded fuel" yeah ok dummy.
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
Here we go again with the death threats, lmao, What a child. I like how you've found little workarounds to the filters too. Did it take you the 10 years you've been on this forum to figure that out? Hah, baby.

"Oh yeah if i do all the dumb stuff i can run leaded fuel" yeah ok dummy.
Can you maybe start providing value here instead of this garbage?

It's obvious you intentionally instigated the response and it's getting old.
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Old 09-10-2018, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BLKROKT View Post


I’m not using leaded fuel you ignorant illiterate fück. Clearly you can’t even understand the big words used above, like “contamination”. Besides, there’s nothing wrong with it if I did, just have to run catless and change out O2s more frequently. You really don’t know shït about anything, I hope you get into a horrific car wreck today, have a nice day.
Karma is a *****. Keep posting comments like this and you may find yourself in a horrific car wreck one day....
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:18 PM
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Ordered my kit today. Not sure what the turnaround time is once I get the kit but I'll post my results here as soon as I get them. Currently running the liqui-moly 5W-40 Leichtlauf stuff
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Old 09-11-2018, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Jasonoff View Post
Can you maybe start providing value here instead of this garbage?

It's obvious you intentionally instigated the response and it's getting old.
Yeah, I'm running around telling people to die and threatening to murder their families... Oh wait, that's Blkcuck!
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
Yeah, I'm running around telling people to die and threatening to murder their families... Oh wait, that's Blkcuck!
How about you stop clogging a thread you had zero involvement or interest in other than starting shït with me?

You don’t see me stalking your posts and responding just to instigate something.

If you crave all this attention from me so much, be a man and just send me a PM and we will meet anytime. I really would look forward to that.

For now though just knock it off. You’re embarrassing yourself and irritating everyone.
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Old 05-21-2019, 06:49 PM
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Most recent Blackstone analysis came back today. Couldnt be happier with the results. Idk how I feel out pushing out to 12,500, but its nice to see theres plenty of protection left in the oil.

Car is DD and frequently gets up to 240/248*F. This last oil sample had a 1/2 mile drag event as well.
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Old 05-21-2019, 08:06 PM
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^^^^ Looks great. Longer service will mainly just increase your iron levels as were are already seeing is the trend.
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Old 05-22-2019, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Sick AF View Post
Most recent Blackstone analysis came back today. Couldnt be happier with the results. Idk how I feel out pushing out to 12,500, but its nice to see theres plenty of protection left in the oil.

Car is DD and frequently gets up to 240/248*F. This last oil sample had a 1/2 mile drag event as well.
I don’t understand why Blackstone always encourages the longest interval possible before the oil breaks down without taking context into consideration. For a high-performance application, stick to shorter.

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