Blackstone UOA Thread
#1
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,061
Received 2,842 Likes
on
1,677 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Blackstone UOA Thread
Ok, let’s see them. With how hard I track my car I figured that I should start keeping track of what’s going on with my oil. Really should have started before the 44O kit was installed, as I was seeing 280F+ temps back then, but the first report saw some high temps as well.
Switched to Rotella T6 dosed with one can of MOS2 for the last report. First two are M1. I think I’m missing one sample inbetween (I know this is the second change with Rotella, probably last Oct and I mislabeled the prior mileages). Each sample has 4-8 track days on it, and although I thought I should probably change more frequently, the analysis shows otherwise. The lead numbers caught these guys a bit off guard and worried me a bit, however the car sees race gas almost exclusively so after a conversation with one of their analysts it’s been chalked up as lead contamination. If it were bearings I would likely see an increase in copper as well, and that number is fine. Here’s what they had to say about that:
“Thanks for the email.
All things considered, I am inclined to say the extra lead from your engine is mostly fuel blow-by. That's most often the case when we find high lead like this and everything else is in good shape. You're right that excess lead from bearing wear usually comes with excess copper as well (copper is the second layer in a traditional tri-metal bearing), and copper has been low in your reports.
There's no set level of lead that we would expect from fuel blow-by in this situation. Lead in fuel purchased at the track is often residual from a holding tank or transfer equipment that previously held leaded race fuel. How much of that lead ends up in the oil depends on things like how much is in the gas to start and how long the lead-containing fuel is in service for. If you were to test the fuel, there might only be a couple ppm lead, but it ends up reading higher in the used oil from accumulation over time. Lead from the fuel is not harmful or a problem, but it will mask any lead from the bearings. To put it in perspective, aircraft engines running exclusively 100 LL fuel show lead in the thousands of ppm after a typical service interval, so the amount of lead from blow-by in your samples is relatively low compared to an engine running leaded fuel.
You could try running a full oil change interval using only fuel from a gas station to see if lead comes down, but I understand that may not be practical given the use the car sees.
I hope this offers some additional insight for you. If you have any further questions feel free to send me an email.”
Switched to Rotella T6 dosed with one can of MOS2 for the last report. First two are M1. I think I’m missing one sample inbetween (I know this is the second change with Rotella, probably last Oct and I mislabeled the prior mileages). Each sample has 4-8 track days on it, and although I thought I should probably change more frequently, the analysis shows otherwise. The lead numbers caught these guys a bit off guard and worried me a bit, however the car sees race gas almost exclusively so after a conversation with one of their analysts it’s been chalked up as lead contamination. If it were bearings I would likely see an increase in copper as well, and that number is fine. Here’s what they had to say about that:
“Thanks for the email.
All things considered, I am inclined to say the extra lead from your engine is mostly fuel blow-by. That's most often the case when we find high lead like this and everything else is in good shape. You're right that excess lead from bearing wear usually comes with excess copper as well (copper is the second layer in a traditional tri-metal bearing), and copper has been low in your reports.
There's no set level of lead that we would expect from fuel blow-by in this situation. Lead in fuel purchased at the track is often residual from a holding tank or transfer equipment that previously held leaded race fuel. How much of that lead ends up in the oil depends on things like how much is in the gas to start and how long the lead-containing fuel is in service for. If you were to test the fuel, there might only be a couple ppm lead, but it ends up reading higher in the used oil from accumulation over time. Lead from the fuel is not harmful or a problem, but it will mask any lead from the bearings. To put it in perspective, aircraft engines running exclusively 100 LL fuel show lead in the thousands of ppm after a typical service interval, so the amount of lead from blow-by in your samples is relatively low compared to an engine running leaded fuel.
You could try running a full oil change interval using only fuel from a gas station to see if lead comes down, but I understand that may not be practical given the use the car sees.
I hope this offers some additional insight for you. If you have any further questions feel free to send me an email.”
Last edited by BLKROKT; 06-29-2018 at 05:00 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by BLKROKT:
bhamg (06-30-2018),
Celicasaur (07-02-2018)
#3
MBWorld Fanatic!
Hey man I need to do a few tests but it looks pretty good.
on the lead, what kind of race has were you using? Maybe switch to vp racing ms109 since that should be lead free.
on the lead, what kind of race has were you using? Maybe switch to vp racing ms109 since that should be lead free.
#4
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,061
Received 2,842 Likes
on
1,677 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Whatever 100 octane unleaded these tracks have at their pump (WGI, NJMP, VIR, etc). Could be contamination from the tanker, or the underground tank. I go through between 20-30gal per day, which adds up to between 60-90gal per event (each session typically uses ~5gal). Yes, 5gal cans of VP109 or Sunoco GT250 would be ideal (and that’s what I do at the dragstrip), however I simply can’t carry that many cans of gas with me. 18 cans of race gas stuffed in my car on a 400mi drive to the track sounds like a bad idea. It’s the same reason I’m not on E85, where you’d have to multiply that by 2.
Last edited by BLKROKT; 06-29-2018 at 03:05 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Duffer4126 (06-29-2018)
#6
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,061
Received 2,842 Likes
on
1,677 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
#8
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,061
Received 2,842 Likes
on
1,677 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
New UOA - 2500mi and 9 trackdays on oil
The following users liked this post:
Funkwagen (09-08-2018)
#9
That's a good one, just reinforces the notion that Mobil 1 0W-40 delivers excellent results in the M156. I'll have an interesting UOA in a few months...my second change with Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0w-40, a very similar oil re. the add pack to M1 but perhaps with a different base stock (PAO - M1 vs GTO - PUP) that is, if M1 is still PAO-based. Oil consumption with PUP over 14k miles is 40% lower than with M1.
The following users liked this post:
BLKROKT (09-11-2018)
#11
BLKROKT - Thx for the data points. The one thing I'm a little surprised at is that Blackstone didn't comment of the higher copper found in Sample 2 when you experienced the lead spike. Re. potential bearing wear. seeing that would concern me somewhat. Next spring I'm pulling bearings out of another car (S54 motor) known for bearing problems and where I've seen similar lead levels. My plan - cost dependent - is to have some shells tested to see if moly has actually plated on various scars or scuffs. That's my theory, that moly should and can help there assuming bearing wear is not too advanced.
#12
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,061
Received 2,842 Likes
on
1,677 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Yeah thanks. The copper has been pretty steady, and the levels aren’t any higher than Derek (SICK AF) above on his relatively babied and higher mileage car. Lead lowered with the longer mileage interval this time, and many more track days on the oil vs usual, so I think they’re pretty confident calling it gas contamination. If copper goes up into double digits, then I may have a problem. I’ve seen a few S54 UOAs over on BITOG, and they seem to register in the high double digits in Pb and Cu when the issues start to arise, with 6/1 being considered “normal”. Acceptable limits are 40-100ppm for Pb and 10-50ppm for Cu so I think I’m ok.
The Aluminum is surprising, but it seems that unless it gets closer to the acceptable limit of 30ppm then nothing to worry about. Will keep monitoring but the motor is running strong as ever so I’m not worried.
The Aluminum is surprising, but it seems that unless it gets closer to the acceptable limit of 30ppm then nothing to worry about. Will keep monitoring but the motor is running strong as ever so I’m not worried.
#15
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,061
Received 2,842 Likes
on
1,677 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
#16
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 3,726
Received 795 Likes
on
546 Posts
W204 C63 Coupe, W166 ML350 BlueTEC, 928GT, C5 Z06 & IS300 race cars, EQE 4Matic+ on order
Jim - assuming that it originates from within the engine itself (as opposed to trace amounts introduced with the fuel, which is very likely the case here), I'm told that higher lead on its own usually indicates bearing corrosion, which is a result of OCIs that are too long (the oil has lost the ability to neutralize acids) and is clearly not the case here. Increased bearing lining wear usually manifests by higher lead and copper amounts together, which again doesn't appear to be the case in your UOAs. Excessive bearing lining wear on a number of our ChumpCar Honda engines has brought both the Pb and Cu levels in the double digit range over a 16-hour endurance race (~1500 track miles).
The following users liked this post:
BLKROKT (08-30-2020)
#17
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: 'Merica
Posts: 1,796
Received 148 Likes
on
123 Posts
'04 E55 (Gone but not forgotten), '13 C63 P31 (RIP), another '13 C63 PP
I’m not using leaded fuel you ignorant illiterate fück. Clearly you can’t even understand the big words used above, like “contamination”. Besides, there’s nothing wrong with it if I did, just have to run catless and change out O2s more frequently. You really don’t know shït about anything, I hope you get into a horrific car wreck today, have a nice day.
"Oh yeah if i do all the dumb stuff i can run leaded fuel" yeah ok dummy.
#18
MBWorld Fanatic!
Here we go again with the death threats, lmao, What a child. I like how you've found little workarounds to the filters too. Did it take you the 10 years you've been on this forum to figure that out? Hah, baby.
"Oh yeah if i do all the dumb stuff i can run leaded fuel" yeah ok dummy.
"Oh yeah if i do all the dumb stuff i can run leaded fuel" yeah ok dummy.
It's obvious you intentionally instigated the response and it's getting old.
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
I’m not using leaded fuel you ignorant illiterate fück. Clearly you can’t even understand the big words used above, like “contamination”. Besides, there’s nothing wrong with it if I did, just have to run catless and change out O2s more frequently. You really don’t know shït about anything, I hope you get into a horrific car wreck today, have a nice day.
#20
Super Member
Ordered my kit today. Not sure what the turnaround time is once I get the kit but I'll post my results here as soon as I get them. Currently running the liqui-moly 5W-40 Leichtlauf stuff
The following users liked this post:
BLKROKT (09-10-2018)
#22
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,061
Received 2,842 Likes
on
1,677 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
You don’t see me stalking your posts and responding just to instigate something.
If you crave all this attention from me so much, be a man and just send me a PM and we will meet anytime. I really would look forward to that.
For now though just knock it off. You’re embarrassing yourself and irritating everyone.
The following 3 users liked this post by BLKROKT:
#23
Member
Most recent Blackstone analysis came back today. Couldnt be happier with the results. Idk how I feel out pushing out to 12,500, but its nice to see theres plenty of protection left in the oil.
Car is DD and frequently gets up to 240/248*F. This last oil sample had a 1/2 mile drag event as well.
#24
Member
^^^^ Looks great. Longer service will mainly just increase your iron levels as were are already seeing is the trend.
#25
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 8,061
Received 2,842 Likes
on
1,677 Posts
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Most recent Blackstone analysis came back today. Couldnt be happier with the results. Idk how I feel out pushing out to 12,500, but its nice to see theres plenty of protection left in the oil.
Car is DD and frequently gets up to 240/248*F. This last oil sample had a 1/2 mile drag event as well.
Car is DD and frequently gets up to 240/248*F. This last oil sample had a 1/2 mile drag event as well.
Last edited by BLKROKT; 05-22-2019 at 06:42 AM.