What's the point of P31 if no one one tunes it higher?
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c63
What's the point of P31 if no one one tunes it higher?
2011 C63 P31 Sedan
I have been searching Renntech, OE, race chip, vrtune, etc... and none of them appear to have a tune different for the P31.
Doesn't the P31 have better internals from the SLS? if the stock engine is being tuned to 510 then the P31should be closer to 600 right.
Makes perfect sense to go from 450hp to 510 but to go from 481 to 510 doesn't seem worth it.
Is there anyone offering a tune for the P31 engines that closer to 600?
I have searched Google and all the FAQ's in here. I haven't been able to find this answer.
Has anyone tuned their P31 AMG to 600 or close to it without other major mods?
I have been searching Renntech, OE, race chip, vrtune, etc... and none of them appear to have a tune different for the P31.
Doesn't the P31 have better internals from the SLS? if the stock engine is being tuned to 510 then the P31should be closer to 600 right.
Makes perfect sense to go from 450hp to 510 but to go from 481 to 510 doesn't seem worth it.
Is there anyone offering a tune for the P31 engines that closer to 600?
I have searched Google and all the FAQ's in here. I haven't been able to find this answer.
Has anyone tuned their P31 AMG to 600 or close to it without other major mods?
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From: NJ
2009 SL63 AMG
Achieving 600 hp (at the crank) with software is simply not realistic.
OE Tuning has a nice breakdown of measured results comparing a P31 and Non-P31 C63 under the same conditions:
https://www.oetuning.com/products/me...nz-c63-amg-p31
Picking up ~40 hp/tq at the wheels from just a tune on a N/A engine is impressive and well worth it, IMHO.
OE Tuning has a nice breakdown of measured results comparing a P31 and Non-P31 C63 under the same conditions:
https://www.oetuning.com/products/me...nz-c63-amg-p31
Picking up ~40 hp/tq at the wheels from just a tune on a N/A engine is impressive and well worth it, IMHO.
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 180
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From: Maitland, FL
C63 AMG, Camaro SS, E55 AMG, IROC-Z
2011 C63 P31 Sedan
I have been searching Renntech, OE, race chip, vrtune, etc... and none of them appear to have a tune different for the P31.
Doesn't the P31 have better internals from the SLS? if the stock engine is being tuned to 510 then the P31should be closer to 600 right.
Makes perfect sense to go from 450hp to 510 but to go from 481 to 510 doesn't seem worth it.
Is there anyone offering a tune for the P31 engines that closer to 600?
I have searched Google and all the FAQ's in here. I haven't been able to find this answer.
Has anyone tuned their P31 AMG to 600 or close to it without other major mods?
I have been searching Renntech, OE, race chip, vrtune, etc... and none of them appear to have a tune different for the P31.
Doesn't the P31 have better internals from the SLS? if the stock engine is being tuned to 510 then the P31should be closer to 600 right.
Makes perfect sense to go from 450hp to 510 but to go from 481 to 510 doesn't seem worth it.
Is there anyone offering a tune for the P31 engines that closer to 600?
I have searched Google and all the FAQ's in here. I haven't been able to find this answer.
Has anyone tuned their P31 AMG to 600 or close to it without other major mods?
You can always go with a custom tune and play with timing to get a few more ponies out, but not near 600.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 415
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From: Whitehouse Station, NJ
2012 C63 P31 Sedan
2011 C63 P31 Sedan
I have been searching Renntech, OE, race chip, vrtune, etc... and none of them appear to have a tune different for the P31.
Doesn't the P31 have better internals from the SLS? if the stock engine is being tuned to 510 then the P31should be closer to 600 right.
Makes perfect sense to go from 450hp to 510 but to go from 481 to 510 doesn't seem worth it.
Is there anyone offering a tune for the P31 engines that closer to 600?
I have searched Google and all the FAQ's in here. I haven't been able to find this answer.
Has anyone tuned their P31 AMG to 600 or close to it without other major mods?
I have been searching Renntech, OE, race chip, vrtune, etc... and none of them appear to have a tune different for the P31.
Doesn't the P31 have better internals from the SLS? if the stock engine is being tuned to 510 then the P31should be closer to 600 right.
Makes perfect sense to go from 450hp to 510 but to go from 481 to 510 doesn't seem worth it.
Is there anyone offering a tune for the P31 engines that closer to 600?
I have searched Google and all the FAQ's in here. I haven't been able to find this answer.
Has anyone tuned their P31 AMG to 600 or close to it without other major mods?
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2019
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c63
It has only the pistons, crank and rods (allegedly) from the SLS, which make it perhaps a stronger motor, but not really any more powerful. You don't get any of the power producing internals from the SLS (M159 engine), which includes different cams, and a vastly different intake manifold design. I have a P31 myself, but let's call it what it is: a great way for Mercedes to upcharge a "package" that's really just left over components from the M159 that they weren't going to sell.
So if the internals are from an SLS and the SLS makes 563hp with the ability to tune to 600, then shouldn't the C63 achieve the same?
Even if that is incorrect.... Shouldn't a P31 with better internals be able to be tuned for more HP than a stock C63?
What's the point of getting better internals if you can only tune it to match what a stock C63 can be tuned to?
If a stock C63 can be tuned to 510 then I would think a P31 with better internals could go to at least 550.
Seems pointless to have better internals only to match the stock version of the same engine.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2019
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c63
Achieving 600 hp (at the crank) with software is simply not realistic.
OE Tuning has a nice breakdown of measured results comparing a P31 and Non-P31 C63 under the same conditions:
https://www.oetuning.com/products/me...nz-c63-amg-p31
Picking up ~40 hp/tq at the wheels from just a tune on a N/A engine is impressive and well worth it, IMHO.
OE Tuning has a nice breakdown of measured results comparing a P31 and Non-P31 C63 under the same conditions:
https://www.oetuning.com/products/me...nz-c63-amg-p31
Picking up ~40 hp/tq at the wheels from just a tune on a N/A engine is impressive and well worth it, IMHO.
Non P31 car gains 59 HP
P31 car gains 31HP
Putting them both at 421 for the exact same price.
So why have the better internals if the stock engine and the P31 can both only be tuned to the same HP. The internals are pointless.
Seems like the P31 should be able to be tuned to a higher HP than a non P31 car.
It seems like it's worth it to gain 60 HP but for the exact same price to only gain 30hp seems not worth it.
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From: Kitchener, ON
2010 C63 AMG
The whole point of stronger internals is longevity and the ability to handle more abuse.
You can't compare an M156 with forged internals to an M159.
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2005 E55
I understand the internals don't make it more powerful but I thought the internals were capable of handling more power.
So if the internals are from an SLS and the SLS makes 563hp with the ability to tune to 600, then shouldn't the C63 achieve the same?
Even if that is incorrect.... Shouldn't a P31 with better internals be able to be tuned for more HP than a stock C63?
What's the point of getting better internals if you can only tune it to match what a stock C63 can be tuned to?
If a stock C63 can be tuned to 510 then I would think a P31 with better internals could go to at least 550.
Seems pointless to have better internals only to match the stock version of the same engine.
So if the internals are from an SLS and the SLS makes 563hp with the ability to tune to 600, then shouldn't the C63 achieve the same?
Even if that is incorrect.... Shouldn't a P31 with better internals be able to be tuned for more HP than a stock C63?
What's the point of getting better internals if you can only tune it to match what a stock C63 can be tuned to?
If a stock C63 can be tuned to 510 then I would think a P31 with better internals could go to at least 550.
Seems pointless to have better internals only to match the stock version of the same engine.
I'll wager that a p31 can handle a gen 3 blower alot safer than the non forged internals.
The sls has tubular exhaust manifolds and has the throttle bodies outside the intake manifold.
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Joined: Jan 2018
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From: Whitehouse Station, NJ
2012 C63 P31 Sedan
I think you are missing the point of tuning, especially on an N/A car. You can't tune for power; you tune to maximize efficiency of the powertrain. In the case of the P31 vs standard M156, they essentially have the same maximum efficiency (maybe a minuscule improvement in efficiency for a P31 since it has a slightly lower rotating mass from the M159 components). At then end, they are capable of essentially the same efficiency.
Now when you start throwing actual power adders into the mix like forced induction or nitrous,then you have the ability to extract more from the P31 since the stronger pistons should be able to handle more boost before self destructing. In truth, that's probably not entirely true either, as the weak point for these motors under boost seems to be the connecting rods, not the pistons.
Now when you start throwing actual power adders into the mix like forced induction or nitrous,then you have the ability to extract more from the P31 since the stronger pistons should be able to handle more boost before self destructing. In truth, that's probably not entirely true either, as the weak point for these motors under boost seems to be the connecting rods, not the pistons.
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From: Whitehouse Station, NJ
2012 C63 P31 Sedan
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c63
P31 vs nonp31 is literally splitting hairs. Not sure how anyone could notice a difference, aside from racing them and realize one doesn’t have the TB’s limited and other does.
The stronger internals is dumb because majority of people on this forum only care about burble and flame tunes. Your not gonna bend your rods with intake spacers and 82mm TB’s...
Besides DADC63 made 700 whp on 200 shot with a stock bottom end non p31. So relax lol
The only thing that’s cool about it is the red calipers and darker intake manifold and tune from factory. Other than that these cars all the same ****.
Tasos even talked about how the weight from the crankshafts from an 08, 2012 p31 and sls all weighed the same. The pistons are a little thicker on sls and p31. Nonp31 has forged crank and rods. Pistons are cast. On a bad tune the p31 can bend rods at 600whp tasos said.
The stronger internals is dumb because majority of people on this forum only care about burble and flame tunes. Your not gonna bend your rods with intake spacers and 82mm TB’s...
Besides DADC63 made 700 whp on 200 shot with a stock bottom end non p31. So relax lol
The only thing that’s cool about it is the red calipers and darker intake manifold and tune from factory. Other than that these cars all the same ****.
Tasos even talked about how the weight from the crankshafts from an 08, 2012 p31 and sls all weighed the same. The pistons are a little thicker on sls and p31. Nonp31 has forged crank and rods. Pistons are cast. On a bad tune the p31 can bend rods at 600whp tasos said.
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2010 C63 AMG
just rematched it and yes it was lighter but he just credited it to the balancing holes so I stand corrected they are virtually identical
Last edited by deadlyvt; Oct 30, 2019 at 05:12 PM.
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From: Los Angeles
2012 P31 C63 Coupe Trackrat, 2019 GLE63S Coupe Beast
Yes the P31 internals are stronger. And you can probably get away with a more aggressive dyno tune versus a “normal” C63. There’s just more room for error.
The primary difference will be in the area under and shape of the curve due to the lighter forged bits accelerating more quickly due to less reciprocating mass. Plus higher potential revs. It’s not only about peak horsepower, and in fact, that number is not very important to most people looking for the most useable power.
The primary difference will be in the area under and shape of the curve due to the lighter forged bits accelerating more quickly due to less reciprocating mass. Plus higher potential revs. It’s not only about peak horsepower, and in fact, that number is not very important to most people looking for the most useable power.
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c63
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'10 C63
HD Tuning in CA says that on a dyno tune, they can get about 20 whp more from a P31 than a non-P31 (on a headers/ROW/tune car). I think off the shelf tunes are all about the same, regardless of P31 or not. You need a dyno tune to fully extract the potential of the P31.
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c63
:-(
I like that the brakes are better. I just hate the red.
Thanks for all the info everyone.
I think I will pass on a stock tune and get a custom tune after I add some go fast bits. Just doesn't seem financially sensible to pay the same for half the hp gains.
Last edited by Travis Decker; Oct 31, 2019 at 09:23 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2018
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From: Whitehouse Station, NJ
2012 C63 P31 Sedan
Your suede probably isn't worn. I though mine was worn completely off because it almost looked like a dirty *** piece of plastic. I used Sonax Alcantara cleaner and a stiff plastic bristle brush and it looks like new. You'll have to repeat this every 6 months or so though.
