Vladds

The other day, I was looking in the WIS to see what it takes to bleed the air out of the GLA45, being certain that I will find a note "it's self bleeding".
Well, no such luck.
A battery of 4 devices are to be used, one more unusual than the other.
I started to think that this must be because of the secondary horizontal radiator.
I started to look at youtube videos, to at least see how all these devices are supposed to be used together, to see if there is a way to maybe just buy one of them and substitute the others.
I started to see that this same method applies to many other Mercedes.
So I went back to the WIS, this time for the W204 C63.
Guess what?
The same devices and procedure apply here too.

Here is a link to the video procedure.

Vladds

Did any of you use something remotely similar to this procedure?

Any Mercedes techs care to comment if they actually use this?

For the GLA, I wnt into detail with this procedure and it's not called out all the time. If I have it right, it's called only for complete coolant replacement and for replacement of the horizontal radiator, but not for the main vertical radiator.

I am thinking that the main component of the whole rig, is that vacuum/venturi distributor, but I am not sure how that black vacuum tank works and why at one point you have to switch from venturi vacuum to electric pump vacuum.

Seems that the electric vacuum pump would have to be bought too, it's capacity may be preset.

The part numbers are:
210589009100 for the cap with the suction brass fitting (can be home made from an old Mercedes cap, with a Home Depot brass fitting)
285589022100 for the electric pump with all hoses and cables (could maybe be replaced with a mityvac?)
285589012100 for the weird vacuum/coolant storage tank
285589002100 for the kit of vacuum distributor, hoses and coolant tank.

Cant imagine that any of these are cheap
the cap is over $100
The electric pump is $1300
The weird vacuum/coolant tanks AKA Ntkl adaptation is $1200
The vacuum distributor tank and hoses is in the $600 range.

There has to be a way to only use that, make the cap and use a mityvac instead of the electric pump and Ntkl adaptation tank

Jasonoff

Nope, I have dumped the coolant several times now and it just self bled.

Edit: I do have my heater core and washer fluid reservoir bypassed so that my have simplified a bunch of things now.

deadlyvt

I just allowed it to self bleed as well with some help from my hand pumping the radiator to engine block hose until all air bubbles stopped forming in the overfill tank

Vladds

Keep the comments coming, guys.
Techs, some hint please?

Jasonoff

Watched the video. That's just using machines to evac and fill using vacuum so you don't need to use the drain plug on the radiator.

The system will still need to self bleed once the thermostat starts to open as the engine warms up.

Vladds

I think you could be right.
This may be a rig that handles the antifreeze without spillage therefore meeting some regulations.
None of the video addresses what happens after the car warms up and the thermostat opens.
Unless... can this backfill behind the thermostat?
But still, why?

go team

Did it manually. Empty through petcock, flush several times with distilled water. Close petcock. Fill with same amount MB coolant mixed as per instructions. Allow car to run turn fan to full heat burn hands priming the coolant hoses. Drive around check tank fill as necessary. Get a check coolant level light on the dash. Freak out about head bolts. Ask mbworld for advice on doing headbolts one at a time. Get burned because the car is FL. Fill reservoir again.

Vladds

Ok, here's the full reason:
I too am going about making sure the car works right.
In this case the GLA45.
The problem with it is that the fan is in low speed, even when the outside temperature is 25F.
When i bring it to work, I start it cold, the radiator fan is not on, I get to work, the fan is in some sort of medium speed (I think that with newer models, the radiator fan speeds are infinitely variable). I wait for a minute, the fan drops to low speed. With this low speed, the fan turns noiseless.
But, it NEVER drops to off, no matter how long you wait in idle, with freezing outside temperatures.

I checked with other GLA45 owners, they have this too. All consider this normal.

To me, this cannot be normal. The design of the engine HAS to attain a temperature balance without the fan on, especially at cold outside temperatures.

Xentry reveals no stored codes.

So, the first suspect to me was incomplete bleeding, air in the system.

So I went to check to make sure that there was not some sort of weird procedure that is difficult to complete and causes the cars to have air in the system.

So, since there is such, I am having doubts. What if at the factory, that full crazy procedure is never properly completed? One thing on the assembly line, they don't have time. However, they have hydromechanical systems and robots to help them.
What if, after completing this procedure, some air comes out, then the car starts running cooler?

Now, the GLA is under warranty, I am building a case. I have the symptom, and a proposed fix.

It's not easy to get the new car dealer to actually do something. And even when they agree to do something, you can't view them doing this work, because the workshop area is always hidden from customer view.
SO far, before I picked up the car, they agreed to change the differential oil and gave me a receipt that they changed it. I lifted the car and went with a magnifying glass. The fill screw of the diff had been out. The drain... no.
In other words, they checked that the level of oil in the diff was fine, but never replaced the oil. Then put it in writing that they replaced the oil.
SO I worry that even if they agree to perform the factory burping procedure, they may just ... not do it.

Jasonoff

Maybe if they activated the internal heater inside the t-stat housing to open it.

Jasonoff

What are the temps from the sensor in the head vs what's displayed on the dash when it's sitting idling at low fan speed?

Also, what are the oil temps at that time as well? They all play a factor for fan operation.

Vladds

I can say that there is a difference between the Xentry temperature and the cluster temperature and although I had not followed this difference al the way to the stabilized value, now that you mention this, this could be the third and most important step for me to take, to complete my case with the dealer, to get them to do a factory burp.

Jasonoff

The cluster coolant temperature is a formulated value. Oil temp on the cluster is accurate.

FYI: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-amg-w...ml#post8347764

Vladds

Oh yes! Tassos is now here
Oh no! I don't know for how long.....

Let's ask him about the burping before it's too late

I don't want to intervene in that conversation, but ... come on.

In a previous thread, where oil types were being discussed and weights, someone, saw it that a thicker oil will present a higher oil pressure and a lower oil temperature.

The lower oil temperature reading, as correctly pointed out, is because the higher pressure has the oil circulating at higher speed, therefore transporting less heat.
Therefore the temp sensor shows the oil as colder, but the surfaces that are in contact with the oil are actually hotter, because there is insufficient time for heat transfer.

Well, with an open thermostat, the same will happen. The coolant will flow fast, but exchange less heat and will read as colder, but the engine will be hotter.
I did run a car without a thermostat in the '80's, as a temporary measure to get it from point A to point B.

Vladds

So, I started to search the forums on general terms.
Check out what this person did:

Intercooler bleeding tool (final version) - MBWorld.org Forums

Some general information, to get you guys to read:
-This is in reference to the liquid to air intercooler, which has a separate cooling circuit in the M133 (GLA45)
-However, from the WIS standpoint, the procedure is no different between the intercooler bleeding of a M133 and the cooling circuit of the M156
-Some alarming statements that this person makes in this thread:
"You need to cycle 25 liters of coolant, in order to get al the bubbles out" But what does Mercedes say? "here's a 25 liter tank, we call it Device 1"
"if you don't use this device, you will NEVER get all the air out, NEVER"

I am going to try to revive that thread, let's see what happens.

Vladds

I mean, if the cooling systems are THIS sensitive to air bubbles, I think that periodic coolant burpings with the rig may be necessary.