Trying to learn whether there is yet a definitive (reasonable reliability & longevity) cure to these issues. I intend to keep my 2014 507 sedan for the long term, but being a compulsive neurotic, I have this fantasy about keeping as "perfect" a car as possible. I would be willing to spend at this time up to US$12,000.00 to "fix" these issues. The car is driven in a "street" fashion; no tracks nor autocross, but ocasional high speed highway and mountain roads jaunts ( I have seen 265kph). I would like to keep the car as stock as possible (no tunes, exhausts, superchargers, etc.). I understand the premature camshafts lobes wear arises from a defective design and poor quality of OEM camshafts; it appears the hardness of the metal as well as oil passages design is not correct. I understand this causes the premature wear to the OEM lifters. I have found three vendors that offer camshafts that would theoretically "cure" the premature lobes wear issue, although none actually puts it expresselly like that: PTG, VRP and 63 Motorsports. PTG´s 4 cam set is US$7,800.00 and appear to be newly manufactured. VRP and 63 offer sets which appear to be re-grinds of existing OEM cores, and are US$3,500.00 and US$2,200.00. Camshafts change would include SLS black lifters. I would like to do the adjuster lockplates at the same time. First problem/issue in which I ask for your knowledge and experience at this time, is whether you think there is an actual "cure " to these issues at this time at reasonable cost. Second is real technological knowledge, professionalism and quality of the potential vendors and their products. PTG and VRP have some very negative reviews. 63 appears to be Ok. I would be very grateful for your views! Best

 

So here is my opinion, the camshaft is soft and the lifters are harder so the softer thing wears out and once it does, the lifter stops rotating and the camshaft sits in one place digging a whole into the lifter as once the camshaft is worn it is a bit rough and does a better job wearing the lifter out.

To remedy this, Mercedes updated the lifters and the M159 lifters have a coating on top to try to help this - no M156 engines came with this lifter in it, only the M159 cars. These lifters supersede the old M156 part, so if you buy lifters now for an M156 you will get the M159 coated part (it also has improved oil valves in it). This may be enough to prolong and stop the camshaft wear but probably no one has tried the combo long enough to know and the M159 had less issues with the cams inherently as the lobes are less pointy.

One step further is the black series lifters from the M159, they are coated on both the top and sides with a different coating to improve wear so possibly better than the M159 normal lifters and they are also lighter overall but like 4x the price too!

And one step further would be to replace the cams with better hardened cams, if you want standard profile cams that will wear better (or a mild bump in lift) I would look at the 63 motorsports ones paired with the M159 SLS lifters or M159 SLS black series lifters as that is likely the most cost effective solution for improved cams. https://www.63motorsports.com/m156-s...dass-camshafts

 

This is the crux, no car is perfect and car ownership especially ones like this is far from a fantasy.

I would ask yourself if you're interested in owning the car for...1 year...5 years. 100 years....etc.

After that formulate realistic expectations around several truths to owning any "car enthusiast" style of vehicle.

It will break, you will never be done and you will constantly need to pay attention to the car, you cannot hit a button and make all the bad things go away.

Its very well possible you could replace every single thing with the most optimum parts and other things randomly will go wrong, its just owning a car.


All that being said, overkill is underrated and I went with BS lifters only and I don't regret my choices. I replaced my cam with a stock cam, given that, I treat my car nearly the same as you intend to I don't think anything more than that is really necessary but again, you know your desires better than anyone else.

Good luck.

 

Keep in mind that more miles you put on the car, even if you replace the lifters/camshfts/etc, that terrible material (some type of magnesium alloy) the intake manifold is made from will eventually become "porous." So you'll have to deal with that which is much harder to source parts or repair. The aluminum throttle body plate helps the cause, but at some point the outer shell will go. I've only seen 1 "new" manifold for sale in the last year and it was $1600. Maybe someone can weld that material.

 

The M159 lifters are the same as the M156 2010+
The M159 Black series are the upgraded black special coating $$$$ ones.
I think that the cams had a number of superseding part numbers.
The later ones are possibly better.
My car had the lifter tick at 46 k miles, being a 3 owner car with first a lease.
Some lease boyz don't like to change the oil, especially when it's a company lease.
I think that with good maintenance and frequent oil changes, the camshafts are fine.

I think that the real enemy here is Mercedes's swift decisions to terminate spare parts for a car waaaaaaaay way way before the 20 year mark, before the 10 year mark and actually .... Before the 5 year mark.
On my 2019 GLA45, the dipstick was discontinued. ... in 2021.!!!!!!
Who told those people that it's ...... legal??? To discontinue after 2 years.
The rear subframe? It was discontinued before the current pseudo-recall for the w204.
I looked it up because of wanting to have fresh bushings there.
Do you know HOW HARD it is to get OEM floor mats?
And it's sad because the first to go are those wonderful OEM accessories. The bike carrier that is so well engineered, the child seats etc.
the OEM leather cushion for the C63 in the cream color is not even in the catalog anymore. Must have been discontinued back in 2011.

 

Here Re some inside knowledge on the valvetrain of the M156. Know and understand that three years went into the measurements and logs to get to this point. Lots of broken parts and money lost.

M156 camshafts
induction heated and molten cast iron Rockwell C score of 56, very hard compared to the domestic counterparts. Polished lobes. M159 camshafts do not fit the M156 drop in. Tuning is needed and the lift, duration, and ramp up rate all caters to the style of the SLS lightweight high horsepower, high torque, and high load engine. High load assists analysis in making sure the expected wear on the metals is at a minimum. It is Mercedes-AMG’s flagship car, nothing was spared.

M156/159 Tappets
Flat tappet hydraulic design that compensates for lash via oil pressure compensation by use of the lifters inside the tappet. Oil is supplied using the reservoir of the bucket itself. Diffuse feed based off of the oil pump. The inner workings are ball bearings and spring one way check valves with the capacity to allow bleed from very tight tolerances. The lifter assembly from its design alone is considered a wear item. Proper maintenance intervals will prolong the life of the tappets.

Oil Supply of M156 (wet sump)
All based off of the oil pump. Oil pressures seem to be steady at 60 psi on high load on track at high hairpin corners and chicanes at high rpm. No drop in pressure noted at the oil filter housing (good thing). The cylinder head capillaries begin to narrow at the heads closer to the lifters. The camshafts are hollow and get fed and supplies oil to the journals.

 

Cast iron does not have the same consistency of alloy grain for its foundation as a forged steel. It can be made good internally but with only induction heating done at the cam lobes then the internals of the cast is variable. This was the cost effective solution to approach a DOHC engine. Unlike the domestic counterparts each engine needed four cams instead of one. Costs needed to be addressed and the cylinder heads took that hit. Largely speculation as no large conglomerate will market cost cutting measures to the public.

 

If youre looking for upgrades:

Black Series Tappets have a high oil reservoir capacity, this is good as it provides the lifter, with plenty of nourishing oil for the occasions that it bleeds via the tight tolerances. Oil bleed is quite rare but technically still possible. The lifter assembly is not a sealed unit. These black series lifters that are black carry less weight that can cause parasitic losses in an up and down assembly. The black walls of the tappets have been seen to erode off exposing the steel beneath. Take that for what its worth. The other tappets also wear at the sides.

Pick any of the companies that offer a stronger adjuster replacement. Two companies have the possibility to overbuild the whole assembly for way less than the cost of one cam adjuster from the dealer.

Pick any company you want for cams. One offers DLC others offer unlisted changes which I would not expect to be released as it is intellectual property. With the costs of cams now from the dealer and low availability there really isnt one company better than the other.

For maintenance;

Frequent oil changes, vary your drive, ensure engines are brought up to temperature. Don’t be shy to rev the engine out whenever it is driven. Perform UOA every oil change 3-5k miles and then once youve nailed baseline levels down every year or whatever youre comfortable with. The italian tune up works well.

 

It is surprising that someone has not machined a set of cams on a CNC machine from the same material as a Toyota for instance uses, I think it would be quite easy once the factory cam has been measured up and entered on a cad program.

 

No need, our Refurbished and performance camshafts are Hard welded, They will not wear like stock cams.

 

Thanks to all for your wisdom! I am also obsesive regarding proper care, driving habits and maintenance. Have already done Weistec Pulleys (with replaced SKF bearings as one original Weistec bearing failed), aluminum throttle body plate and Weistec Oil Catch can. Use Liqui Moly Leitchlauf 5W-40 and Ceratec every 50,000 kms., and change oil & filter and perform full inspection/service every 6200 miles with my MB master certified mechanic at the dealership he works in (only person to work on my MB's since 2004). What I would like to achieve is to gain some peace of mind in keeping the car long term knowing these problems are "reasonably" solved; i.a. camshafts, lifters & adjusters which would be trouble free for, say 150,00 miles? assuming proper care & maintenance. Is a re-groung camshaft a valid/acceptable solution Vs. a newly made camshaft assuming proper pricing and equal technical knowledge and resources? Thanks and best!

 

For your intents and purposes that you have layed out, any of the camshaft work done by the aforementioned companies should be fine.

Peace of mind in its entirety wont be 100%, if you know what you want regarding an end result and want to build your car like a fortress, you can.

Just do so with the caveat that most folks who sell car parts that are not a manufacturer i.e. Mercedes-Benz do not have a warranty obligation in the sense of a guarantee that any of the parts you buy cannot or will not break, again this is cars in general, you're taking statistical risks which ultimately means that even if you have the slimmest of margins, you can lose. Engines and cars are not removed from the laws of thermodynamics. Its a bummer, I agree.

Odds are if you replace every part of the drivetrain that you've mentioned, you will be fine for an extended period of time that should satisfy reasonable expectations.

 

The part in bold above is incorrect. At the very least, some M156s came with the updated lifters from the SLS (mine did). Furthermore, again according to AMG Germany, the SLS Black Series lifters are not compatible with the M156 as the SLS BS valvetrain was completely revised from the SLS, including the camshafts themselves. Back in 2015, I had the shop foreman at the corporate dealership where I had the 44O package installed on my car look into this, and I received the response below.

 

To the OP - use good oil and stop worrying over a problem that does not exist (at least not at this time, and most likely never will exist on your car).

If you want harder cams, WebCam will make you whatever you want - but the question is why would you want to. I too was concerned about that specific issue as I was tracking my car at the time. Last year one of the (plastic) valve covers developed a slight leak on mine, and I had both of them replaced. I had a VERY good look at the cams when the covers were off, and they had no visible signs of wear.

 

I wonder how this contrasts with the real world results.

I was under the impression they would not do this swap for legal reasons and less so for the actual fact that its a functional part that would work...ie. if you did swap the lifters and a customer complained/had issues, what the warranty/repair implications would be since it was "originally designed" for other engines etc.

Anecdotally, my car works just fine as well as others who have done this swap so I'm truly curious what the "bottom line" logic was in the decision for them to send that to you.

 

I suspect that the different cams and revised valvetrain in the SLS BS have a lot more to do with it than legalese.

 

I stand corrected - thanks for the info!

 

Weird, without specifics on this its kind of impossible to determine the end result they came up with since the practical examples seem to end with a different result than what they deduced would happen.

It sounds like they didn't know what would happen and said "just don't do it." unless they have a write up in the secret MB vault.

Also, I have a 2013 and my original lifters were not SLS lifters so I'm not one of the lucky post 2012+'s I guess.

 

Thanks to all! I have tried to contact 63 Motorsports to discuss purchase, but the number in their website is an answering machine. Have left messages without luck. Does anyone have a contact within 63 Motorsports? Best!

 

Interesting. Do you have the performance package engine with the forged and lightened internals or the regular one with the cast parts? AFAIK the P31 / APX / P61 (507) engines were only made at the Bremen plant - perhaps those were the only ones that ended up getting the updated buckets form the SLS. @Vladds seems to think that all M156s after a certain date got the SLS buckets, but I have also heard of FL models (2012+) that did not have them, and yours also seems to fall into that category.

 

https://www.vrpspeed.com/product/ref...156-camshafts/ @Canica We have everything you need to get your valvetrain to a point where you will never have to worry about it again. We don't offer "stages" Stage X on the phaser plates stands for "This covers everything": They are a 1 time change, and you will never need to replace them again.

 

Not a P31 car, at least according to the thread in this subforum where the nice fellow runs your vin anyway.

I could see a world where the 507's received them as they were available on SLS's and this is a good way to increase a sales price with parts you already have readily available and want to move to the public.

 

Hi Just a few questions,
Does the SLS suffer the same cam pitting/wear and corresponding wear on the bucket or has that been totally eliminated with change in bucket design/material coating and is the cam still the cast iron type?

With the M159 are all the camshafts the same design ie lift duration for all the model types.

If the SLS cams are a different (better) material but not a suitable duration for our M159 has anyone ground the lobes to M159 profile.

Just looking at the M159 to SLS, the lobe is peaky on the M159 and rounded on the SLS due more duration and I wonder if the smooth gradual ramp up and down on the SLS helps in any way.

 

Cams are much different in the SLS and don't have the sharp point to them which I suspect means they don't have the wear issue as the ramp up is more gradual and has a more rounded tip. I think material wise it is likely the same just the shape the causes the tip wear on the M156 and people have tried those cams don't work well in the M156 without all the other changes like the Intake from the M159 also.

 

The tappets are the same they just have a different coating on them, we have a SLS black series profile, but not one for standard SLS 159. I would imagine the stock sls cams will have the same issue, but there are so few of them and they all go straight to the dealership we never hear about it.