ejmb198

Evening All,

Has anyone had a chance to drive the new W206 C63 yet? Will this help our residual value on W205 & W204 as modern classics now. I have driven the W206 C43 and less than impressed with how it performs, especially the artificial engine sound pumped through the speakers.

places

As far as residuals, it might. I think the 204 will start to hold better since it's the true 63 with the 6.2 naturally aspirated motor. I regret selling mine.

Reviews for the 43 and 63 are mixed at best. Definitely a new era of emotionless performance cars.

BotnKing

I personally LOVE my 2023 c43 🤷🏽‍♂️

5ilver-5urfer

Just my 2 cents - I'm sure the C63S E will have incredible performance and it looks aggressive, but their brand strategy is really questionable at this point.

They had a huge push years ago to build loyalty amongst buyers who may eventually go on to buy an AMG. Seems like a good idea, but I guess someone didn't account for the fact that now some of those buyers are ready for their first full-fat AMG, but they probably don't care about fuel efficiency and just want a big ol' loud engine. Did they really ignore the polarizing views people have on the CLA45 being a 4-cylinder AMG?

Dima

Fully electric M3 by 2027 with 4 motors. Who here complained about weight of AMG?
And to the above post, CLA45 is going to cost about 110,000 euro in France if the new law passes, and other countries are not far behind.
So all complaints should be addressed to politicians and green fanatics.

5ilver-5urfer

Lol, when that time comes to go to a fully electric M3, then we can all gang up on that collectively, right now it's the C63S E's turn

places

2027 M3 will be offered with both fully electric and electric assist. The six cylinder will remain in production at least until 2030.

superswiss

AMGs have always been grand tourers more than sports cars, except perhaps the GT 2-door, which ironically despite its name is the least grand tourer AMG offered in recent years. So, they weren't lightweight, but what's going on with the C63 E is simply insane. Pushing the weight figures of an E63 now. All these electric and electrified performance cars weigh a freaking ton! There's only so much they can do with the suspension to manage that weight. The new GT has standard active roll bars now, because it also has become obese and ironically these further add to the increased weight, but the C63 doesn't have active roll bars. On top of that comes the inconsistent performance. The advertised peak horsepower of the C63 SE is only available for 10 seconds during boost, so especially in places like Germany, it's not selling well because the performance is inconsistent. While the sustained horsepower is higher than the 205, it's basically offset by the additional weight, so it won't actually be faster most of the time.

It's frankly getting insane. Have you guys seen what Hyundai just released with the IONIQ 5 N. A 2.2 ton performance EV with fake engine sound and simulated 8-speed dual clutch transmission. You know that EVs are just bland if they have to start faking an ICE. None of this is green, either. The resources that go into these massive batteries for these performance EVs is nowhere environmentally friendly. There are no renewable energy sources. To harness "renewable" energy from the sun and wind we need equipment built with finite resources and that gets buried in landfills mostly when they reach the end of their service life. Ever seen what they do with the worn out blades of the wind turbines or a solar farm after a hail storm? BTW, we are running out of sand, an essential ingredient to make semiconductors. I heard somebody say recycling...LOL! Not economical. Less than 10% of the current lithium batteries are even being recycled and that's not gonna change anytime soon, because it costs too much compared to exploiting poor countries for fresh lithium.

Josh.A.Hussey

100%.
A lot of Tesla’s precious metals are mined in my province and I can assure you, there is no eco-friendly mindset in the mines…

CarlosAMGBR

I gotta a crack on the S 63 AMG 2024 E Boost crap here in Brazil on one of the cars that arrived. Gotta say, very underwhelming and disappointing experience. To the point that I really think AMG has lost the plot. The car has so much delay (even in Sport mode), and it feels so heavy. Yeah sure, once it picks up and goes, its insanely fast, although does not feel any faster than the previous 4.0 TT. The C63 in 4 cylinder is bound t be a lot worse in this regard. Honestly, what is up with making cars so heavy, and so complicated, any kickdown on the S 63 AMG takes ages, because the gearbox has to find the gear, the combustion engine has to engage. Not only that, previous AMGs with MCT (after 2014/2015) had good transmission, the response of the shifts were always pretty good (especially the W213 AMG with that epic 9 MCT). The S 63's gearbox was slow was hell, dimwitted, jerky, honestly extremely disappointing, and this one still has a V8.

I can only imagine what sort of turd the C 63 with the 4 cylinder, all this complication will be.

W205C43PFL

Thanks for sharing your real world experience with it, I am surprised to be honest especially how almost every reviewer said it was a great improvement over the GT 63 S E Performance and the C 63 S E Performance.

superswiss

That's interesting, but not surprising. The reviews seem more positive, but what you are describing is that there's a lag when the ICE has to engage and it transitions from EV to hybrid and has to shift power around. This is something that was pointed out in the C63 as well as being super slow and delayed. I didn't really pick up on this when I drove the GT 63 S E Performance, because I was driving it in RACE mode where the ICE is always on and the transmission is in full attack mode, so on the track at least there was no lag. However, it was unbalanced around corners as you could feel the electric motor overdriving the rear wheels and then ESP intervened and as you say, in a straight line it didn't feel like 800 hp, plus even in the slightest bends I had to ease off the throttle, because all the weight was pushing me to the outside and it was kinda nerve-wracking. It seems to confirm that nothing has really changed. When the GT 63 SE came out, some reviewers commented that it works ok on the track, but not so much on the road, so I think this speaks to that impression. If you keep it on the boil in RACE mode then it works ok, just have to deal with the weight, but on public roads where the ICE goes in and out, there's a bunch of lag.

W205C43PFL

I guess MB needs to start building production cars again not beta cars and sold as production cars, ugh. Hurts to hear all this as an MB fan.

superswiss

I still have a strong suspicion that AMG is trying to recoup some of the money they dumped into the development of the AMG One, so now they are putting this technology in every car and sell it. Basically everything in the E Performance powertrain goes back to the AMG One. Obviously there are some differences given the F1 engine in the AMG One, but the energy management and everything comes straight from the One and it's mainly track focused. They keep highlighting how the battery can quickly recharge even on a single lap around the track, but how does that matter on the road? I think they just kinda forgot that these cars are mainly driven on the roads and nobody is really interested in being an F1 driver having to plan how to use the energy efficiently that the system provides. The technology seems to be suitable for the track where you quickly need to recoup energy braking hard into a corner and then deploying it on corner exist and on the straights, hence the battery technology that allows for rapid charging and discharging. But this has little to no relevance on the road. Especially the boost mode that deploys the full power for 10 seconds is all about the track really. That's the only place were they've been touting it. It relies on data about the track from Track Pace telling the driver in the instrument cluster when to push the pedal to the metal to take advantage of it, so it's not even about driving skills.

W205C43PFL

That could be, and I guess that could also be a "selling point", like certain buyers can say their car has tech from both F1 and the AMG One... Wouldn't that help them sell more?

After all, MB placed their 3 pointed star all around the interior, in the grille, the front bumper, taillights and now even headlights (in the new CLA concept) as you already know.

places

I think the AMG "strivers" or "aspirational" buyers are more likely to buy into the F1 branding. However for those that have options at the higher levels it really means nothing if MB can't deliver.

W205C43PFL

Well of course, I do agree everything is nothing if they can't deliver. Unfortunately, it does seem like they are a marketing company right now, will be interesting when that will change.

CarlosAMGBR

I did not get to drive it in Sport + as it is a delivery car, nonetheless I always vastly disappointed with the throttle response, there is a ton of delay. Combination of extremely heavy car with a hugely complicated powertrain. The transmission was slow, the ICE engine takes too long to wake up.

CarlosAMGBR

I did not get to really push it hard on the corners, nonetheless it feels so goddamn heavy under braking and under any sort of performance driving. It is so disappointing. I got to experience a sharp turn with it, and it does handle ok, but it feels heavy, far more cumbersome than its predecessor.

I did not like the car's tech too, far too much going on, feels confusing, the menus are a pain without the buttons, I really disliked the car. I feel like S 63 AMG has gone on a whole different direction to what AMG enthusiasts really want. Can't deny though, it sounds pretty good, and the ICE engine is still pretty exceptional. The transmission in Manual Mode is fast, and shifts good, but the whole car feels heavy and laggy. Too much inertia.

CarlosAMGBR

I think its a mix of emissions problems with AMG trying to lead the Hybrid evolution, nonetheless they missed the plot. They have gone for solutions that are far too complicated to use, far too heavy, and have deviated from what made AMG great, massive engines with little complication and ample performance day to day. I have owned a ton of AMGs, Ms, Porsches, and AMGs always felt the best when driving day to day, because the engines were super torquey, elastic, and extremely versatile.

CarlosAMGBR

The problem is that "aspirational" buyers don't give a **** about Mercedes or AMG in general. In fact, most first time new car buyers are seeking to purchase electric or hybrid vehicles focused on efficiency, not power, or driving dynamics. The car should appeal to their brand enthusiasts, and trust me when I say this, none of their line up does. BMW M and Porsche currently have a line up that is far more interesting to the driving enthusiast. It pains me to say this, but AMG has really lost the plot.

W205C43PFL

Hmmm, in that case, in the car's defense maybe it needs to adapt and run-in first?

W205C43PFL

Not too surprising because of the weight differences.

Hmmm, in terms of the menus I agree it is cumbersome to use but hopefully it is something that can be learned and get use to.

W205C43PFL

Speaking of emissions, have you had a chance to read the oil pump solenoid thread? There are quite a bit going on just to save a few drops of fuel, limiting performance/response and decreasing engine longevity. This is all done before the much stricter emission laws even, so what MB might had done might be what they have done in the past but on steroids (that caused the lag, slow response that you experienced on the vehicle you driven).

W205C43PFL

no doubt about the branding fully diluted at this point, the average joe doesn't know what an amg is and only what an MB is. Kind of similar how people put amg badges on their car and make their car an amg, enthusiasts who know what it means know it is fake, so what is the point?