Bloodstar57

I watched it too but i will quote CanAutM3 from BimmerPost:


Indirect ranking:
1st Giulia-Q
2nd M3 CP
3rd ATS-V
4th C63-S

M3 CP posted the fastest lap against the ATS-V and C63S and was also subjectively chosen as the best of the three to be pitted against the Giulia.

Giulia-Q won against the M3. They said Giulia-Q is one of the most enjoyable cars to drive and had high praise for it. M3 was only 0.39 seconds slower around the test track despite being down 61hp and the Giulia having sticky R-compound tires. Not bad IMO.


Will post some picture later.

BRBM

Well, assuming it's true - since everyone's seen it but can't seem to link it here for us to see for ourselves - we'll believe it when we see it.

Because there ain't sh-- at the link to all the head-2-heads....all of them except one, apparently. Which, of course, begs the question "Why won't MT post it for all to see? Is somebody BSing us? I wonder." Not to mention, especially since MT has already compared the three and the C63S won, followed by ATS-V and M3 running last.

Don't believe me? Here's your link: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/merce...-s-comparison/

So, all in all, the Alfa winning is not a stretch with it's Ferrari DNA, i.e., the relationship goes beyond just the engine being a 6-pot version of the current 3.8 or 3.9 Ferrari V-8.

But the rest of the order? We'll see.

sean1.8t

Honestly, who cares how others rate it. How do you like it? (Rhetorical)

And there is so much more to a car than lap times.

Bloodstar57

It's on Motor Trend on demand. It has not made it to Youtube.

Souriall91

I usually try to find real world application videos vs track. I would imagine less than 10% of owners actually will go to a track with their car. Of those people far fewer actually have the skills to properly drive the car to its limits like the guys on MT. It's nice to see the reviews but honestly, nothing beats the V8 and that beautiful MB interior.

Bloodstar57

Here

tekfoc

I LOVED reading the motortrend review .
awesome write up.

Dthquazi

+1. I honestly couldn't care less about lap times. I don't track my car. I commute in my car. These ratings are worthless.

kck77

++ 1

sean1.8t

This is why I think the F80 is the worst generation of M3/4 to date.

Ya, it's the fastest, most aerodynamic, and most powerful, but for $90k "luxury" sports car, it's absolute garbage if you ask me.

They only reason I would buy one is for a track car, and even then, that would only be if I crapped bricks of gold. The c63 and Alpha are such better well rounded cars. Just like all previous generation M3's were.

Souriall91

Agreed! I was a little disappointed they delayed the Alfa so dang long. I wanted to add it to my list of test cars, at minimum for the test drive. Oh well. Maybe I'll sneak in and pretend like I'm interested one of these days when the waitlist goes away. With the Alfa I don't see any reason to look at the m anymore. They best do something amazing with their net generation.

jarda

the post relates to lap times and is accurate.

jarda

only a person who never owned or driven m4/m3 can call this car garbage.
C63s is a lot more expensive. Actually it is in a different price range altogether so your entire comment is wrong.
I agree with you that c63s is probably better all rounder but your other comments were so cheap

sean1.8t

You're reading comprehension needs some work. Everyone else understood what I meant. Go back through it again and see if you can figure it out this time

And I've driven the 3, not the 4. Test drove it for ****s and giggles when I was looking at 340i's & 440i GC's.

Bluetonic

The element a lot of these reviews fail to cover is how a car makes you feel. It's character, the look of it, the attention it gets on the road. While often subjective, some cars pull this off better than others. Lamborghini are a fine example of this.

Unless you're a professional race driver who will use the car 90% on a dry smooth track, lap times and precise performance mean nothing to your average driver. All these cars are excellent and you need to be very talented to exploit the difference.

I think this is where a lot of car development is going wrong at the moment. Some manufacturers are more focused on lap times than on road performance. Just look at where they give these cars to journalists. It's all super smooth highway in Spain or California, or a track somewhere.

I owned an M3 and test drove an Alfa and M4CP before buying an C63S coupe. The Alpha was awesome really made me stop and think. M4CP didn't offer me anything new or exciting, the C63S was just a riot and made me smile the most. If I wanted a saloon I honestly would have waited for an Alfa, but I had my heart set on a coupe so Mercedes it is.

coladin

Worthless unless your car wins.

kimeran

Agreed.

Unfortunately these cars are tested on the track, reviewed on the track, and final verdict given based on the track experience.
A lot of buyers will look and the reviews and base their purchases on that.

msd3075

You mention that it should be important to people how a car makes them feel.

To a lot of people, bragging rights about lap times, HP ratings, 1/4 mile times, or price vs performance stats are all things that make people feel better about their purchase. For a huge portion of performance car buyers, these "my car is better than yours" stats are extremely important and trump any emotional feeling (or lack of feeling) that a car might have.

And just like you alluded to, 95+% of drivers/buyers are completely incapable of bringing their car anywhere near the limit where these small differences in lap times exist. The only reason they are even brought up is for bragging rights. That's it. And if those type of bragging rights are the reason for your purchase choice, you are going about it all wrong.

Bloodstar57

+1. They do try, sometimes, to give the road functionality a score or rather consider them in the final verdict. However, it is really hard to tabulate those intangible items. Perhaps, measure the dampening rate to see how long it takes the car to recover from road bumps and imperfections or infotainment boot-up speed. Still, this seems weird and not as exciting; we need to remember that these car mags have to sell to stay in business. Track times are exciting!

This is why test drives are a must because when you buy car it should be based off of need (this could be new family to mid life crisis), and measured in the respect to where and how it will be operated most often. For a few it will be the race track but even then it's like what i use to say when I raced bikes:
"Most will hit their personal limit long before they hit the machines limit".
Approaching the limits of these vehicles, without wiping out, is not as easy as some would like to think.

ignomini

People who buy on user experience buy iPhones. People who buy on spec sheets buy Android. Horses for courses, and real world daily performance be damned. Like Bluetonic above, I wanted a V8 coupe with good looks and plenty of power (under $100k). Even though the C63 Coupe is basically a German Mustang, it's a more mature car. When I see younger folk in an M4 I think "yep, that's about right." When I see someone my age in that car, I think mid life crisis, and they won't still be driving it a year from now.

Hoop

Motor Trend is a joke and always has been. Worst car magazine ever!!

RDOCA

The problem with this track review is all the cars except the Alfa have Mich PSS on them and the Alfa has track rubber.
When this happens MT should put a set of PSS on the Alfa and run the tests again to see a honest comparison.
It would make a big difference as the rubber it had is equivalent to a Cup 2 tire.
All have their place but for an all around car the C63 can't be beat.
So much better interior and oh the sound of that V8.

shoe3k

It's not a bad review but it was 100% oriented to performance on the track. I can tell you that the ATS-V makes the worst daily driver and couldn't stand it when I sat in one along with its CUE system. The other cars are so good that it will become personal preference.

ChickenDinner

Their first H2H had the C63S come out on top on a more open track. This time round, on a tighter track, the SEDAN was off the pace given the stock 'skinny' tires that MB put on the rear. If there were a set of 305s on the rear, or they used the COUPE, the showing would have been much better.

And seriously, who would take an ATS-V over a C63S.

RDOCA

And seriously, who would take an ATS-V over a C63S.

+1