blaferty

So has anyone upgraded/replaced their turbos on C63 W205?

Pure Turbos/Weistec/Eurocharged??

blaferty

Anyone upgraded the turbos on the M177 motor?

brad65ford

there seems to be still some waiting data and longevity on this subject. From what i've read there are turbo upgrades and also just swapping the internals of the stock turbo. I don't see Eurocharger or anyone else yet offering a complete kit yet. Personally i'd love to see a stage 3 turbo/intake/dp/tune kits available for our c63s's. Right now i'm piece matching and not really to happy with what im finding.

digitalnav

I expect some turbo swaps from the E63S (twin scroll) within the end of this year.

brad65ford

if i were a betting man i'd disagree, have a feeling merc has made a good bit of difference's with the intake among other things between them. Its already been stated that the motor internals are different as well. We basically have the bare bones none twin scroll turbo's, similar to what audi offers on their lower line 4.0l in the s6/s7's. Don't believe anyone has done a twin scroll swap from an rs7 or s8+ yet in them do to the differences of the parts. Could be totally wrong though, don't get me wrong sounds awesome to swap oem parts like this.

AlexZTuned

It doesn't matter that the engine internals have differences. The E63S twin scroll manifold has the same bolt pattern as the C63S, and bolts right on to the cylinder head without modification... at the end of the day, they are both M177 engines with virtually the same castings. So these bolt-on parts are interchangeable...

There are other OEM upgrade options as well that no one has explored yet. The AMG GTR uses the same turbos as the GT and C63S, but has a larger upgraded compressor wheel. That would be a direct bolt-on as well, and you could use your stock manifolds since it's not a twin-scroll unit like with the E63S.

I posted about now this late last year: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-amg/647825-discuss-m177-m178-oem-bolt-turbo-upgrades-c63s-gt-r-gt-c-e63s.html

brad65ford

I hear you but i'm with this guy, https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...ml#post7024922

Its more then just the turbo bolt on difference, the inlet is different since its directing the flow directly do different cyclinders so there would be more parts involved then just the turbo bro. Thats way it may get costly instead of just doing a larger turbo upgrade. Again i don't know the difference in parts/pricing but surely interested in a twin scroll setup for our c63s.

AlexZTuned

Directing flow to different cylinders? I'm sorry, but I'm not even going to attempt to respond to that nonsense. He's talking about a 2 decade old engine (2.7t) using a traditional twin turbo setup with 5+ feet of intake plumbing... not the new Hot inside V setup which allows for direct bolt-ons.

Fact: the E63S manifolds bolt on to the C63S cylinder head because (wait for it...), they have the same cylinder heads! The turbochargers are only different in that the turbine exhaust housing and flange are cast for the larger twin-scroll. Power-technik has already mated up the manifolds on his C63S, so it's not even a question if they bolt-on. And yes, I know he's using aftermarket Borg Warner turbochargers with a custom flange welded to the manifolds...

brad65ford

If that is the case then kick a@@ , I'm not a turbo guy yet, I've always been a routes style blower force induction power guy. When i heard the explaination of a scroll I though it had to do with directing airflow differently (different type of flow path of heads/intake etc...) So your saying its just a turbo difference and they mount the same if thats the case this is damn good news.

AlexZTuned

Not even remotely the same thing. Google single scroll vs twin scroll turbo... it's directing exhaust gasses to spool up the turbo faster, it has nothing to do with redirecting air on the intake side.

brad65ford

Actaully did a few weeks ago but didn't look at any pictures just read and must have not comprehended it correctly. If i'm wrong apologizes for misleading.

irregardless, this is the reason i'm haven't dp and tuned yet. I'd so rather have an upgraded turbo then tune even with the stock exhaust would be ideal setup for the c63s as a major sleeper.

Sign me up!

good explaination http://www.audiboost.com/content.php...-turbochargers

EDIT:

Below is what confuses me on this conversation since it shows the header having separate porting for a twin scroll turbo setup. So what your saing is the header is the same on the c63s and the E63s? I'm assuming not, so that would need to be another parts to be purchased assuming that fit as well. This is why I'm assuming its safe to say its just easier to purchase an upgraded turbo then to switch to twin scroll. BTW i do believe you that the turbo would mount up but they exhaust flow would be different if the headers are different which we both know are and what I was trying to explain. The kit would need headers and turbo (twin scroll) not just the turbo was what i was stating. Yes my wording was incorrect when saying directing airflow when i meant header. We actually are on the same page just didn't get there at the same time ;-)


Twin-Scroll Design
Exhaust passages from two cylinders at a time run
separately from each other in the exhaust manifold
and housing. They are joined just before
the turbine, preventing reciprocal interference of
exhaust fl ows. This guarantees a rapid buildup of
torque and outstanding response


lastly on this subject have a strong feeling the C63s would loss its exhaust rumble with a twin scroll turbo setup.

AlexZTuned

Yes, you need a twin scroll manifold to fit any twin scroll turbo setup. So yes, you will need to purchase both the E63S exhaust manifolds and the twin scroll turbochargers which is more expensive. That's why the GTR turbo might be a better option because they would work with the standard C63S (single scroll) manifold. That would essentially be a basic turbo swap.

The firing order is the same on the M177, so the E63S manifold is taking advantage of the exhaust gas pulses to spool up the twin-scroll turbine. Nothing special is done other than splitting the manifold runners - so it would still work on a C63S. I doubt there will be much difference in sound, especially if you keep the stock DPs and exhaust.

The twin scroll setup is already proven to make 725 HP on just a tune - I would imagine 750 HP or more with additional mods (catless DPs, exhaust, etc). It's a very potent setup, though I still think a GTR turbo would be cheaper, easier, and still make good power (we'll see once deliveries start and tuners get their hands on one to see what power they make with tune only)

PL27

as of right now from my understanding, the transmission is the weakest link on the car not being able to handle around 700whp. Also from my knowledge there aren't any fully working transmission upgrades that actually have been tested 700whp+. My car makes 640whp and already heats up fast and bangs gears.

Guilty

Not 100% true bro. Txt me.

AlexZTuned

Horsepower doesn't break trannies, torque does. The MCT-7 is rated up to 1000 NM (738 ft-lbs torque), so if you exceed it, then you'll probably have slipping issues. This trans is really stout if you treat it well, way better than the DCT in the M3/M4 (those almost always need to be built for 600+ wheel torque).

skim7x

Are you guys concerned at all about the internals of the engine? After all AMG went out of their way to change in the persons or rods (I forget which they did, but read they had been changed), presumably to handle the higher stresses.

brad65ford

Finally we're all talking meat and potatoes. What's the difference of axles and driveshaft compared to that last gen w204 c63's? This was one area that you never heard much discussion on assuming they are pretty damn stout that is. Seems the trans is limiting factor...again.

What's involved in tranny Upgrade, does it need to get sent out?

brad65ford

Agree most shouldn't be as worried about the motor since merc builds them pretty damn stout and this one is boosted. Believe heat and cooling would be more of an issue regarding engine staying together.

Guilty

My only issue is that my tranny is running a little hot after the turbo upgrade. Dime Junk Racing cooling does NOT work. I have it and it's a waste of money.

EkS

There's a few people with upgraded turbos. Things are going to get interesting soon...

BRABUS786

Im Ready to buy but dont know which ones to get!

mr747

Go with Pure stage 1 or 2

FDNewbie

So AlexZTuned is correct that the twin scroll manifolds should bolt up to our motor. The problem is, after looking at some diagrams and talking to some ppl in the know, this is far from a bolt-on swap. There are many unknowns, such as lines that will have to be rerouted and what not that while are completely doable (obviously, Power-technik has reportedly already done it), you're rolling the dice on just how involved the swap would be, and how much downtime it may entail. Power-technik is happy to post he's done the swap, but hasn't been forthcoming with any details on what it entails. And for someone like myself, where my C63S is my daily driver, I can't afford to open up a can of worms and make this into a custom project. So short of there being a required part list and a step-by-step guide, this route is no longer a viable option to me. I have too many unfinished projects as it is...

While Weistec's Stage 4 seems to give the highest HP increase available on the market: http://weistec.com/all/mercedes-benz...rade-m177.html (I don't consider GAD Motors to be an upgrade; it's practically a full rebuild, and costs likely upward of $20K), I think Pure Turbos Stage 2 seems to be the best bang for your buck (if not the best bang, period). And with their Black Friday sale currently going on, I think I'm about to pull the trigger... https://www.pureturbos.com/store/mer...rbos-1145.html

My one consolation with this setup is, it made the figures posted on their dyno (750rwhp and somewhere around 685 ft-lb, by eyeballing the dyno sheet, as it's too small to read) on race gas. So as long as I stay on 93 pump, trans should be well within its torque rating.

Mr. Pink

FDNewbie

I never said he wasn't nice. I simply said he wasn't forthcoming, and that's been my experience. I contacted him on Instagram after seeing his post here and being directed by other forum members to contact him that way. He said he could get the entire twin scroll setup for me (turbos, manifolds, lower heat shield, coolant hoses). He quoted me a price. I asked him how he dealt with the extra torque without damaging the tranny. He replied. I said ok, I'm in. I wanted to purchase the entire swap. He didn't reply, then removed me from the followers of his Instagram. I figured maybe that was a mistake. So I gave it a few weeks, followed him again, and sent him another message. He removed me again.

Maybe your experience has been different than mine. Maybe he's a super nice guy. But my experience wasn't very fruitful, even though I was waving $$ in his face to get the setup he talked about.

Maybe you can elaborate more on his setup?