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So MB has hooked us up with tire temperature and pressure in the car - but what good is it if we don't use it to our advantage -- since I really don't know much about car tire temp (I do know motorcycle tires though!) I did some quick reading and came up with a good starting point for playful driving -- I mean, we assure our engine and tranny are warmed up before we stomp it, but are we also paying attention to the 4 things that keep us on the road....I know I want traction! Anyway, here are some thoughts -- please comment and share your experiences. For the record, I run 44 psi front and 40 psi rear cold and my guess is MB tire temp is measuring air temp, not rubber
Ultimately this comes down to the tires you use. Something like a Cup 2 needs higher temperatures before they have optimal grip compared to a PS4S which has better grip at lower temps than the Cup 2. You learn at what temps your tires develop optimal grip. The more aggressive you drive the hotter they get as well, so tire temperature and driving style kinda goes hand in hand. I can definitely tell that in the canyons my PS4S start sticking more and more the hotter they get, and they easily spin when cold and I'm a bit too eager on the throttle. Somewhere around 90-110F they seem to stick pretty well for road use. In the canyons I've had the fronts as high as ~170F at which point they show red. Around ~150-160F they become orange.
Don't know the source for this tidbit I had squirreled away ... PS4S Speed vs Pressure info:
PDFs on "Michelin tire technology" (from 2018, many pages removed due to size restrictions) and "care and feeding of Cup tires" (I'm assuming that Cup 2's are similar).
Well I learned something here -- I didn't know the temp display changed color for warm and hot temp but I should've figured it might...thanks! I need to keep an eye on that, I seem to recall seeing one tire rather warm the other day (it was in the sun longest) but don't remember the display being a different color for the temp....more to come on this one!
Well I learned something here -- I didn't know the temp display changed color for warm and hot temp but I should've figured it might...thanks! I need to keep an eye on that, I seem to recall seeing one tire rather warm the other day (it was in the sun longest) but don't remember the display being a different color for the temp....more to come on this one!
The sun and normal driving won't get them into high temperature range. Here's a pic after my frist lap around the Nurburgring. I made the mistake and had the tire pressures set for Autobahn driving, so combined with the heat I ended up with crazy pressures.
USE OF NITROGEN INSTEAD OF AIR IN OUR TIRES...
Has anybody tried/used/considered using Nitrogen in our high-performance tires on this car, such as with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's?
I live in an area of California where temperature can, and does, swing 30+ degrees from early morning to midday. Especially in the summer. Nitrogen would reduce pressure fluctuation and minimize risk of the tires dropping below the necessary psi, such as the 44 psi up front and 40 psi rear for those of us with the lightweight forged alloy wheel that requires such pressures to be vigantly maintained.
Can anyone comment on this idea? Are there downside risks to using Nitrogen?
USE OF NITROGEN INSTEAD OF AIR IN OUR TIRES...
Has anybody tried/used/considered using Nitrogen in our high-performance tires on this car, such as with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's?
I live in an area of California where temperature can, and does, swing 30+ degrees from early morning to midday. Especially in the summer. Nitrogen would reduce pressure fluctuation and minimize risk of the tires dropping below the necessary psi, such as the 44 psi up front and 40 psi rear for those of us with the lightweight forged alloy wheel that requires such pressures to be vigantly maintained.
Can anyone comment on this idea? Are there downside risks to using Nitrogen?
Filling tires with nitrogen is about the same deal as selling bottled water. You pay for a free resource. Air is 78% nitrogen and contrary to popular believes it expands at about the same rate as air itself with temperature changes. However, nitrogen is a noble gas which means it doesn't absorb moisture. The main issue with air is that the remaining 22% of gases (mostly oxygen) absorb moisture, and the moisture is what leads to somewhat unpredictable pressure changes, which is why in racing they fill the tires with pure nitrogen to be able to exactly predict the tire pressure at a given temperature. Nitrogen molecules are also larger than oxygen molecules, so they are less likely to escape through the natural pores of the tire compound, so you generally have less natural occurring pressure loss, but to top them off, you have to go somewhere where they can fill it. You also really need to look at the equipment they use to extract the pure Nitrogen from the ambient air. Many of them actually don't get fully rid of the additional gases and moisture. To make sure you really have pure nitrogen in the tires they need to be emptied and filled multiple times to get all the air out and replace it with pure nitrogen, and that's assuming the nitrogen that comes out of their hose is actually pure. Not worth it at all, unless you are racing professionally. Here in California we have a dry climate, so moisture in the tires is generally not even remotely an issue.
Last edited by superswiss; Jun 23, 2021 at 12:10 PM.
USE OF NITROGEN INSTEAD OF AIR IN OUR TIRES...
Has anybody tried/used/considered using Nitrogen in our high-performance tires on this car, such as with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2's?
I live in an area of California where temperature can, and does, swing 30+ degrees from early morning to midday. Especially in the summer. Nitrogen would reduce pressure fluctuation and minimize risk of the tires dropping below the necessary psi, such as the 44 psi up front and 40 psi rear for those of us with the lightweight forged alloy wheel that requires such pressures to be vigantly maintained.
Can anyone comment on this idea? Are there downside risks to using Nitrogen?
I've had tires filled with nitrogen and honestly haven't seen a noticeable difference in its ability to reduce pressure variations due to ambient temperature changes. Here is a good explanation of the the air vs nitrogen dilemma.
Due to ease of access, I've typically gone back to atmospheric air. It's much easier to fill up my tires at home with an air compressor than have to drive to a stealer or Costco to get my tires filled up with Nitrogen. Also when I attend track events, I drive to the track on same tires I run on track and need to add air in before driving home. Unfortunately there is no source of nitrogen at the track.
As long as you're willing to deal with the logistics associated of keeping your tires filled with nitrogen, there are no other drawbacks.
Thank you for the detailed and awesome explanation. Much appreciated.
Follow up questions...
1) What about Costco? They advertise Nitrogen-only fills. Are they reliable?
2) are there portable Nitrogen-only tire fill pumps available for consumers? Any recommendations?
Thank you for the detailed and awesome explanation. Much appreciated.
Follow up questions...
1) What about Costco? They advertise Nitrogen-only fills. Are they reliable?
2) are there portable Nitrogen-only tire fill pumps available for consumers? Any recommendations?
Costco will top up your tires with nitrogen. I've never had a problem filling up there, however like everything else with Costco, be prepared to wait to get service. They have a machine which generates nitrogen from atmospheric air for their fills.
The only way I'm aware of for consumers to fill up with nitrogen without have to go to an installer would be to get nitrogen bottles. I highly doubt you would want to go this route as it would be expensive and a logistical nightmare.
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