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The definitive PFL vs 2023 C63 side by side exhaust sound test coming...
Background: I've owned two C63 sedans a 2015 and a 2018. My 2018 is shown below. I traded in my 2015 when my AMG GTR arrived. I missed the car so much that I bought a 2018 a couple years later. I then sold it to one of my buddies here in town. Once my 2023 C63 arrives in the next week or so from Florida. I'll have my 2018 back in my driveway for the day. I'll post side by side pics and will give you my take on the sound. So rather then remembering what a PFL sounds like of which I had two and probably logged 40k miles between them. This will be the real deal, side-by-side and a spirited drive. I drove a FL 2019 last week from my local dealer and it just sounds "muzzled" and literally no crackles and pops no matter what you do. So I'd be able to tell right away in my 2023 if there are crackles and pops and if there are I want to also know if there is any "volume" difference as well in the sound. I've read a lot of anecdotal stories and opinions but I need to know a 100% percent for myself. You'll pretty much able to take whatever I say to the bank on this matter afterwards.
Last edited by benzbell; May 20, 2023 at 06:11 PM.
⏱️ 700HP Facelift converted C63 S Coupe with Drexler 3.06 plated LSD
Originally Posted by benzbell
Background: I've owned two C63 sedans a 2015 and a 2018. My 2018 is shown below. I traded in my 2015 when my AMG GTR arrived. I missed the car so much that I bought a 2018 a couple years later. I then sold it to one of my buddies here in town. Once my 2023 C63 arrives in the next week or so from Florida. I'll have my 2018 back in my driveway for the day. I'll post side by side pics and will give you my take on the sound. So rather then remembering what a PFL sounds like of which I had two and probably logged 40k miles between them. This will be the real deal, side-by-side and a spirited drive. I drove a FL 2019 last week from my local dealer and it just sounds "muzzled" and literally no crackles and pops no matter what you do. So I'd be able to tell right away in my 2023 if there are crackles and pops and if there are I want to also know if there is any "volume" difference as well in the sound. I've read a lot of anecdotal stories and opinions but I need to know a 100% percent for myself. You'll pretty much able to take whatever I say to the bank on this matter afterwards.
Interesting topic to revisit and I'm all for it man would love to see this definitive test from a real member from here too 👍
For anyone that's new to the whole C 63 S PFL vs FL here's a quick rundown of what people have discussed (and found) since 2019
🔸 Facelifts have the piped-in engine sounds in the interior via a sound generator.
🔸 Prefacelift had no fake engine sounds in the interior, larger intake plenum and slightly larger turbos than the facelift.
🔸 Prefacelifts also had a bit better power to weight ratio
🔸 Facelifts look so much better
🔸 Facelifts have a superior gearbox
🔸 Facelifts have better interior tech
🔸 Facelifts have more ambient colors and brighter
🔸 Facelifts don't have TV tuner
🔸 Prefacelifts have sharp pops and bangs vs Facelifts have more of a gurgle on overrun
🔸 Facelifts have softer springs but much better for daily driving and less crashy over bumps
That's pretty much what's been talked about here over the last few years.
Having driven two facelifts (coupe and sedan) and occassionally seeing them in my town I love the way they sound, look, perform and they still sound boss. For me the facelift drives nicer than the prefacelift and is more comfortable for daily driving and has a way better and smoother gearbox. Shifts happen immediately and never lag.
But it's the Final Edition C63 Coupe which stands out because it sounds just like our old prefacelifts and I have no idea how they did that.
What made you miss your C63 when you had a GTR?
Last edited by Jimmy_c63s; May 24, 2023 at 06:41 AM.
Reason: Adding links
But it's the Final Edition C63 Coupe which stands out because it sounds just like our old prefacelifts and I have no idea how they did that.
What made you miss your C63 when you had a GTR?
Since it's been reported the FE does sound as good as the PFL. I want to get to the bottom of if the non FE (2023) sounds as good as the FE. I can't imagine they'd be different but who knows. Once I test it for myself and if my 2023 is as good or close to my old PFL then that should pretty much answer the question that there is no difference between the two - (FE vs non FE).
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
Originally Posted by Jimmy_c63s
But it's the Final Edition C63 Coupe which stands out because it sounds just like our old prefacelifts and I have no idea how they did that.
Great comparison list there, it'll help a lot of folks who are new to these cars know the distinct differences between the PFL and FL.
It's not just the Final Edition C63S coupe which stands out, I can tell you that my non-FE is way louder than my '21 FL. @benzbell should be able to confirm this when he receives his non-FE later in the coming days. If his still sounds like an ordinary FL, then AMG might've mistakenly tuned my non-FE with the PFL sound as maybe they only intended for the FE's to sound this way. I'd be happy to let anyone local with a '19-21 FL do a side by side comparison with mine, it'll show that mine is no doubt louder with all the crackles, pops and bangs.
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
Originally Posted by benzbell
Since it's been reported the FE does sound as good as the PFL. I want to get to the bottom of if the non FE (2023) sounds as good as the FE. I can't imagine they'd be different but who knows. Once I test it for myself and if my 2023 is as good or close to my old PFL then that should pretty much answer the question that there is no difference between the two - (FE vs non FE).
C63 was a much better daily then a GTR.
Can't wait for your beast to arrive so we can finally get to the bottom of this. I'm really anxious to know if my car is an anomaly or the norm for all 2023's, FE and non-FE alike!
C63S Brabus 600, gated Ferrari 575M; gated Ferrari 430 Spider; a couple of others
Intrigued by this. I have a 21 C63S, with Brabus 600 conversion from new. I know the folks at MB HQ quite well and asked how and why the FE sounded better if it is mechanically identical. No answer, and I think it will take a drink with a Stuttgart or Affalterbach tech to find out, til someone here takes a FE apart, or its software apart.
The Aston running the standard C63S engine sounds so much better than the FL cars also. Having said that, mine sounds good, still, even from the outside. I'd say there's a ten percent difference in loudness and general sound goodness in the PFL cars, which is just not enough to make up for everything else like the gearbox, ride etc. anyway look forward to more, here.
Can't wait for your beast to arrive so we can finally get to the bottom of this. I'm really anxious to know if my car is an anomaly or the norm for all 2023's, FE and non-FE alike!
If yours sounds the same as the FE. I'd assume they all do. I find it unlikely yours somehow got tuned to have the same sound and the others didn't. And if that is true then hopefully they did mine as well - lol.
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
Originally Posted by Engadine
Intrigued by this. I have a 21 C63S, with Brabus 600 conversion from new. I know the folks at MB HQ quite well and asked how and why the FE sounded better if it is mechanically identical. No answer, and I think it will take a drink with a Stuttgart or Affalterbach tech to find out, til someone here takes a FE apart, or its software apart.
The Aston running the standard C63S engine sounds so much better than the FL cars also. Having said that, mine sounds good, still, even from the outside. I'd say there's a ten percent difference in loudness and general sound goodness in the PFL cars, which is just not enough to make up for everything else like the gearbox, ride etc. anyway look forward to more, here.
I suspect that they’re not giving any answers because it’s probably just a simple software tune/ patch that changes the sound from FL to PFL. I doubt it’s hardware related as our US FL models don’t have the opf. And that answer would probably tick off a lot of folks.
Does yours sound better than other FL’s because of a Brabus tune or is there an aftermarket Brabus exhaust? If it’s just within 10% of the PFL sound then it doesn’t need anything else as it must sound pretty amazing.
Originally Posted by benzbell
If yours sounds the same as the FE. I'd assume they all do. I find it unlikely yours somehow got tuned to have the same sound and the others didn't. And if that is true then hopefully they did mine as well - lol.
I would assume all non-FE’s have the FE sound like mine. I only speculated if mine was a fluke because other non-FE owners have yet to confirm if they have the FE sound. To the contrary, one member confirmed his (or his friends’s?) non-FE sounds like a regular FL. We’ll get to the bottom of this sooner rather than later when yours arrives!
I would assume all non-FE’s have the FE sound like mine. I only speculated if mine was a fluke because other non-FE owners have yet to confirm if they have the FE sound. To the contrary, one member confirmed his (or his friends’s?) non-FE sounds like a regular FL. We’ll get to the bottom of this sooner rather than later when yours arrives!
Exactly. No more heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend.
Interesting topic to revisit and I'm all for it man would love to see this definitive test from a real member from here too 👍
For anyone that's new to the whole C 63 S PFL vs FL here's a quick rundown of what people have discussed (and found) since 2019
🔸 Facelifts have the piped-in engine sounds in the interior via a sound generator.
🔸 Prefacelift had no fake engine sounds in the interior, larger intake plenum and slightly larger turbos than the facelift.
🔸 Prefacelifts also had a bit better power to weight ratio
🔸 Facelifts look so much better
🔸 Facelifts have a superior gearbox
🔸 Facelifts have better interior tech
🔸 Facelifts have more ambient colors and brighter
🔸 Facelifts don't have TV tuner
🔸 Prefacelifts have sharp pops and bangs vs Facelifts have more of a gurgle on overrun
🔸 Facelifts have softer springs but much better for daily driving and less crashy over bumps
That's pretty much what's been talked about here over the last few years.
Having driven two facelifts (coupe and sedan) and occassionally seeing them in my town I love the way they sound, look, perform and they still sound boss. For me the facelift drives nicer than the prefacelift and is more comfortable for daily driving and has a way better and smoother gearbox. Shifts happen immediately and never lag.
But it's the Final Edition C63 Coupe which stands out because it sounds just like our old prefacelifts and I have no idea how they did that.
Background: I've owned two C63 sedans a 2015 and a 2018. My 2018 is shown below. I traded in my 2015 when my AMG GTR arrived. I missed the car so much that I bought a 2018 a couple years later. I then sold it to one of my buddies here in town. Once my 2023 C63 arrives in the next week or so from Florida. I'll have my 2018 back in my driveway for the day. I'll post side by side pics and will give you my take on the sound. So rather then remembering what a PFL sounds like of which I had two and probably logged 40k miles between them. This will be the real deal, side-by-side and a spirited drive. I drove a FL 2019 last week from my local dealer and it just sounds "muzzled" and literally no crackles and pops no matter what you do. So I'd be able to tell right away in my 2023 if there are crackles and pops and if there are I want to also know if there is any "volume" difference as well in the sound. I've read a lot of anecdotal stories and opinions but I need to know a 100% percent for myself. You'll pretty much able to take whatever I say to the bank on this matter afterwards.
Congrats OP on the 2023 and thanks again for doing this, looking forward to the comparisons.
I can say this much right now with some assurance. I have exactly 348 miles on the clock right now. In trying sport + and race mode as well. I've literally not heard one crackle or pop. Keep in mind I did hit 5-6K rpm albeit briefly. I also heard none on lift off or on over run. I will say this, it does have a very deep, rich and brutal sound which is quite satisfying. There's no way it will hold a candle to my 2018 PFL in the crackles and pops department. I don't see it happening no matter how many miles elapse. Test with my 2018 (next week) will most likely come down to a db meter to see which is louder and my opinion after I drive both back to back. It is most definitely louder then the 2019 FL I drove for about an hour a couple weeks ago.
I can say this much right now with some assurance. I have exactly 348 miles on the clock right now. In trying sport + and race mode as well. I've literally not heard one crackle or pop. Keep in mind I did hit 5-6K rpm albeit briefly. I also heard none on lift off or on over run. I will say this, it does have a very deep, rich and brutal sound which is quite satisfying. There's no way it will hold a candle to my 2018 PFL in the crackles and pops department. I don't see it happening no matter how many miles elapse. Test with my 2018 (next week) will most likely come down to a db meter to see which is louder and my opinion after I drive both back to back. It is most definitely louder then the 2019 FL I drove for about an hour a couple weeks ago.
Thanks for the update, maybe the pops and bangs will surface somewhat after break-in?
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
Originally Posted by benzbell
I can say this much right now with some assurance. I have exactly 348 miles on the clock right now. In trying sport + and race mode as well. I've literally not heard one crackle or pop. Keep in mind I did hit 5-6K rpm albeit briefly. I also heard none on lift off or on over run. I will say this, it does have a very deep, rich and brutal sound which is quite satisfying. There's no way it will hold a candle to my 2018 PFL in the crackles and pops department. I don't see it happening no matter how many miles elapse. Test with my 2018 (next week) will most likely come down to a db meter to see which is louder and my opinion after I drive both back to back. It is most definitely louder then the 2019 FL I drove for about an hour a couple weeks ago.
Very interesting. Ok it’s been confirmed mine isn’t the same sound as a PFL, but I didn’t experience similar sound out of my ‘21 FL even at 5k miles. So maybe mine was a fluke and has a tune that was intended for an FE which has been confirmed to have more crackles, pops and bangs. Or, since @superswiss said his started sounding like this after 10k miles, it’s possible mine was tuned to sound like that at 0 miles rather than having to wait until 10k. I don’t know what the case may be, but I do know that I was getting a lot of pops and bangs out of mine in Sport+, almost on demand with under 60 miles on it.
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
Originally Posted by W205C43PFL
Thanks for the update, maybe the pops and bangs will surface somewhat after break-in?
This is what’s puzzling. Mine also has that really deep V8 growl that’s different from other FL’s as @benzbell describes. But I’m also able to make mine crackle, pop and bang. It’s a real head scratcher.
Given that noise regulations have only gotten more restrictive since 2019, I can't imagine that the '23 is anyway louder than the '19. What you guys might wanna look into is if AMG added piped in sound in the '23. Something that's been debated before, but never fully confirmed or disproved. There have been claims that the FLs have piped in sound. When you say the '23 seems louder than the '19, is that inside or outside? Would be interesting to measure decibels inside and outside between a '19 and a '23.
Last edited by superswiss; May 28, 2023 at 04:00 PM.
2010 BMW E63 M6 Coupe 2023 AMG C63s Coupe 2005 YZF-R1
Originally Posted by superswiss
Given that noise regulations have only gotten more restrictive since 2019, I can't imagine that the '23 is anyway louder than the '19. What you guys might wanna look into is if AMG added piped in sound in the '23. Something that's been debated before, but never fully confirmed or disputed. There have been claims that the FLs have piped in sound. When you say the '23 seems louder than the '19, is that inside or outside? Would be interesting to measure decibels inside and outside between a '19 and a '23.
Very plausible. I guess it could be tried with a decibel meter with the windows down from inside the cabin as having the windows up would insulate a lot of the outside noise. And the question would still remain why @benzbell isn’t able to get any pops and bangs at all but I get quite a few.
This is what’s puzzling. Mine also has that really deep V8 growl that’s different from other FL’s as @benzbell describes. But I’m also able to make mine crackle, pop and bang. It’s a real head scratcher.
Very interesting. Ok it’s been confirmed mine isn’t the same sound as a PFL, but I didn’t experience similar sound out of my ‘21 FL even at 5k miles. So maybe mine was a fluke and has a tune that was intended for an FE which has been confirmed to have more crackles, pops and bangs. Or, since @superswiss said his started sounding like this after 10k miles, it’s possible mine was tuned to sound like that at 0 miles rather than having to wait until 10k. I don’t know what the case may be, but I do know that I was getting a lot of pops and bangs out of mine in Sport+, almost on demand with under 60 miles on it.
Ya that is honestly pretty interesting. You never can understand MB nowadays.
Given that noise regulations have only gotten more restrictive since 2019, I can't imagine that the '23 is anyway louder than the '19. What you guys might wanna look into is if AMG added piped in sound in the '23. Something that's been debated before, but never fully confirmed or disproved. There have been claims that the FLs have piped in sound. When you say the '23 seems louder than the '19, is that inside or outside? Would be interesting to measure decibels inside and outside between a '19 and a '23.
Very plausible. I guess it could be tried with a decibel meter with the windows down from inside the cabin as having the windows up would insulate a lot of the outside noise. And the question would still remain why @benzbell isn’t able to get any pops and bangs at all but I get quite a few.
Super confused as well, one thing though, if there is a stored code, pops and bangs disappears as the ECU doesn't risk anything and dump unburned fuel in the exhaust and retard timing.
Here are some factors from what I read:
Discharged battery (apparently affects it),
poor fuel (doubt OP will put poor fuel in it unless that gas station had poor fuel),
limp mode (OP's car clearly isn't in any limp mode),
O2 sensor possible cause as well (but doubt it is the cause of OP's issue),
defective exhaust button (as you already know the exhaust button tells the ECU to retard timing, dump unburned fuel in the exhaust and generate pops and bangs, case in point, if you use an ASR module and open the exhaust valves fully but have that button off and despite in sport+, there are no pops and bangs)
I doubt OP's car has any stored code and given it is a brand specking new car but that is from my experience.
And the question would still remain why @benzbell isn’t able to get any pops and bangs at all but I get quite a few.
Well, didn't you say yours has the EVM? Can you clarify that? Obviously that changes things. Keeping the valves fully open when the stock setup keeps them partial closed at certain rpms changes the backpressure and exhaust pulse characteristics.
Well, didn't you say yours has the EVM? Can you clarify that? Obviously that changes things. Keeping the valves fully open when the stock setup keeps them partial closed at certain rpms changes the backpressure and exhaust pulse characteristics.
Hmmmm interesting, didn't know forum member RavenM6 had one of those, where did you read that he mentioned? I must have missed it.
I would venture to say that "yes" there is piped in sound. I noticed that it seems louder with the windows up versus the windows down which is the same in my 2022 GLE 63 as well. To me that says there is some piped in sound and that's why it sounds better with the windows up instead of down.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
