listen, a bumper can be pulled off for non-accident related reasons as well. if the price is right, who cares. do a PPI if you're that concerned. body work is one thing, id be less concerned about that and more concerned about mechanicals. but if they're asking top dollar, id pass
do a PPI
Can't stress PPI enough, it always catch things that we don't usually see, I even think PPI on a CPO is a good idea as well assuming not all dealerships follow the checklist or go through any of the items at all.
These are the photos that gave me pause on the C63 in Nashville (with 33k miles). In the first photo, there appears to a bolt missing and a washer to another bolt missing, suggesting this bumper was pulled off for one reason or another. The second photo is the other side of the front bumper, which looks normal (although it also has a lot of scraping damage). The MB dealer represented no body work had been done to the car.
What do you guys think? Perhaps I am being overly picky, but I am hunting for a well cared for car and this discovery deterred me. It’s also challenging to do this kind of diligence on a used car remotely
If they had to pull the bumper off to PPF or pull it off for warranty work such as trying to fix the radar sensors, it is possible. As the other forum member mentioned, bumper off doesn't automatically mean it was hit.
That's a bit nonsensical. The exhaust looks stock as far as I can tell, and Stage 1 (not State 1) generally refers to an engine tune. Stage 1 is a software tune, remapping the ECU to produce more power w/o making hardware changes to the engine. Stage 2 is the next level building on Stage 1 by making hardware changes such as upgrading intake, turbo or exhaust system to further increase power.
The thing to consider with tunes is that it voids the powertrain warranty. A tuned car can't be CPO'd, which is probably why it's at a Toyota dealership. Extended warranties would also not cover powertrain repairs on a tuned car. Many folks who tune their cars will flash it back to stock before bringing it in for potential warranty work, but once it's discovered that the car is tuned it will be on the car's record. The other thing with tunes is that it taps into reserves that manufacturers build into their design to ensure reliability and longevity. There's no free lunch. A tuned car will likely not be as reliable in the long run as a stock car. It's just how it goes. Operating the powertrain out of the factory spec will ultimately shorten its lifespan.
@superswiss Thank you again for this note. I assume this vehicle doesn’t have a powertrain warranty at this point since its in-service date is >4 years. Per your note, it is possible to remove the this aftermarket tuning software and go back to the factory reset? How difficult is that and does that involve taking it to an MB dealer to do so?
Does all the scraping in that photo given you concern? Does it look like it was repainted (I can’t tell)? My guess is the person drove into one of those concrete parking blocks or on the sidewalk when parking at McDonald’s!
The issue with the PPI is I don’t have a lot of time here b/c I have to take a day off work to fly there, get the car, and drive it back. Trying to do this all in one day.
I suppose I am surprised a PPI would be necessary from an MB dealer on a CPO - thought that was the whole point of that program
I am trying to speak with the manager at the dealer to see if they’d take some money off the price ($62k).
@superswiss Thank you again for this note. I assume this vehicle doesn’t have a powertrain warranty at this point since its in-service date is >4 years. Per your note, it is possible to remove the this aftermarket tuning software and go back to the factory reset? How difficult is that and does that involve taking it to an MB dealer to do so?
I am mainly worried about the damage that has been done during the time the vehicle was tuned and used by the previous owner, removing the tune is easy by flashing stock
Does all the scraping in that photo given you concern? Does it look like it was repainted (I can’t tell)? My guess is the person drove into one of those concrete parking blocks or on the sidewalk when parking at McDonald’s!
The issue with the PPI is I don’t have a lot of time here b/c I have to take a day off work to fly there, get the car, and drive it back. Trying to do this all in one day.
I suppose I am surprised a PPI would be necessary from an MB dealer on a CPO - thought that was the whole point of that program
I am trying to speak with the manager at the dealer to see if they’d take some money off the price ($62k).
The only best way is to use a paint thickness gauge and find the OEM thickness data value and compare.
Given how low the AMG C 63 S is, it is possible they just went through lots of speed bumps or their driveway caused it.
Yes the PPI is time consuming but it is super worth it.
Except it depends on the dealership, CPO is just as good as the technician that inspects it or lack thereof (as in just checking the list of items in his office sipping coffee).
Good luck on the negotiations.
I am mainly worried about the damage that has been done during the time the vehicle was tuned and used by the previous owner, removing the tune is easy by flashing stock
Is flashing stock something that can be done from inside the car or does one need a diagnostic tool to do that?
Is flashing stock something that can be done from inside the car or does one need a diagnostic tool to do that?
No, that needs tools. Flashing takes place through the OBD port via a laptop and a multiplexer. You'll have to talk to RENNtech to get the tune removed, or a dealership can flash the ECU back to stock as well, but then they will know it was tuned, or you can contact the remote coders that are active on this forum such as BenzNinja. You will have to buy some hardware yourself, though, for them to flash it remotely.
Is flashing stock something that can be done from inside the car or does one need a diagnostic tool to do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by superswiss
No, that needs tools. Flashing takes place through the OBD port via a laptop and a multiplexer. You'll have to talk to RENNtech to get the tune removed, or a dealership can flash the ECU back to stock as well, but then they will know it was tuned, or you can contact the remote coders that are active on this forum such as BenzNinja. You will have to buy some hardware yourself, though, for them to flash it remotely.
There are two statuses, one is status 8 but what was the other one? Either way, those flags will void OP's warranty.
There are two statuses, one is status 8 but what was the other one? Either way, those flags will void OP's warranty.
Don’t these warranties expire after 50k miles or 4 years, whichever is first? If so, I don’t see a downside in the dealer knowing the vehicle was tuned. Heck, they probably already know b/c the prior owner put three nasty badges on the vehicle “powered by Renntech”
Just spoke with Ray Catena in NJ on their Final Edition C63 AMG S. They are going to send some photos. Some interesting turns here - apologies for turning this thread into a real saga, but I am grateful for this community’s collective expertise!
Don’t these warranties expire after 50k miles or 4 years, whichever is first? If so, I don’t see a downside in the dealer knowing the vehicle was tuned. Heck, they probably already know b/c the prior owner put three nasty badges on the vehicle “powered by Renntech”
Just spoke with Ray Catena in NJ on their Final Edition C63 AMG S. They are going to send some photos. Some interesting turns here - apologies for turning this thread into a real saga, but I am grateful for this community’s collective expertise!
Don't worry about the back and forth decisions, you don't want buyer's remorse on purchases like these (I've been there done that many many times), you are just being wise with your choices and doing lots of research so that is a good thing.
Don’t these warranties expire after 50k miles or 4 years, whichever is first? If so, I don’t see a downside in the dealer knowing the vehicle was tuned. Heck, they probably already know b/c the prior owner put three nasty badges on the vehicle “powered by Renntech”
Just spoke with Ray Catena in NJ on their Final Edition C63 AMG S. They are going to send some photos. Some interesting turns here - apologies for turning this thread into a real saga, but I am grateful for this community’s collective expertise!
Yes, the warranties expire eventually. The original factory warranty is 4 years or 50k miles, whichever comes first, but then CPO is an extended warranty and you can get extended warranties through third-parties like Fidelity that go beyond the original and CPO warranties, so you can technically have warranties for up to 8 years I believe, or possibly longer. Not entirely sure when even the extended warranties max out. So yes, if you don't plan on getting a CPO or extended warranty, then having a tune won't void anything. You'll be paying out of pocket for anything that breaks anyway. But if you pay for an extended warranty, or pay the premium for a CPO, the last thing you want is being out the money for the warranty and still have to pay out of pocket.
Don’t these warranties expire after 50k miles or 4 years, whichever is first? If so, I don’t see a downside in the dealer knowing the vehicle was tuned. Heck, they probably already know b/c the prior owner put three nasty badges on the vehicle “powered by Renntech”
Just spoke with Ray Catena in NJ on their Final Edition C63 AMG S. They are going to send some photos. Some interesting turns here - apologies for turning this thread into a real saga, but I am grateful for this community’s collective expertise!
Ray Catena is where I picked up my 2021 C63S as well. CPO car. They did a nice job for me, pretty much gave me a fully refreshed vehicle (new tires, brakes, rotors, oil change, transmission fluid change, etc.)
Ray Catena is where I picked up my 2021 C63S as well. CPO car. They did a nice job for me, pretty much gave me a fully refreshed vehicle (new tires, brakes, rotors, oil change, transmission fluid change, etc.)
Okay, an update. Spoke to the Nashville dealer. They are offering me a $1k discount on the car (Selenite Grey with black rims, 33k miles, CPO, no distronic). This brings the price to $61k
The Iridium Silver one in NC at a Toyota dealer has 15k miles, RennTech stage 1 modified, distronic. It also has similar damage to the under carriage on the front bumper. They dropped the price to $63k
I am now reconsidering the Nashville one. I really do want a 4 door and there are so few out there.
i sat in a new 2024 c63 at MB Manhattan today. It’s a nice ride but that interior is horrible. The single plastic piece for the mirrors, the giant screen, the single piece button beneath the screen. I hope MB fixes this
Okay, an update. Spoke to the Nashville dealer. They are offering me a $1k discount on the car (Selenite Grey with black rims, 33k miles, CPO, no distronic). This brings the price to $61k
The Iridium Silver one in NC at a Toyota dealer has 15k miles, RennTech stage 1 modified, distronic. It also has similar damage to the under carriage on the front bumper. They dropped the price to $63k
I am now reconsidering the Nashville one. I really do want a 4 door and there are so few out there.
i sat in a new 2024 c63 at MB Manhattan today. It’s a nice ride but that interior is horrible. The single plastic piece for the mirrors, the giant screen, the single piece button beneath the screen. I hope MB fixes this
The sedan is usually cheaper than the coupe plus the sedan is not made in Germany which I guess you are fine with, DISTRONIC is not a big deal if you don't commute on highways often and/or stop and go traffic as it helps ease the constant pressing on the brake and accelerator which is very tiring (if you just got off work for example).
I am unsure if DISTRONIC also includes certain automatic safety features though, I know active brake assist is standard without DISTRONIC.
Without DISTRONIC you can still active standard cruise control just that you need to make sure to brake yourself as it won't stop when a vehicle in front appears or stops.
Or maybe it does? I forgot to be honest, as I know there is something called with stop and go traffic assist now but I don't know if that was standard or a thing on this C 63 S.
Without DISTRONIC you can still active standard cruise control just that you need to make sure to brake yourself as it won't stop when a vehicle in front appears or stops.
Or maybe it does? I forgot to be honest, as I know there is something called with stop and go traffic assist now but I don't know if that was standard or a thing on this C 63 S.
You are correct. I am using “distronic” short for the Driver’s Assistance Package. I would like that but it’s not a huge deal if I don’t get it.
I appreciate the point that the coupe is built in Germany while the sedan was in South Africa. It’s a great point. I just prefer a sedan. I’ve looked at the GT and Es as well, which I think are all built in Germany, but I prefer the relative compactness of the C class, especially on the east coast (and particularly in NYC)
Hopefully I can get a deal ironed out today and still take delivery next week
You are correct. I am using “distronic” short for the Driver’s Assistance Package. I would like that but it’s not a huge deal if I don’t get it.
I appreciate the point that the coupe is built in Germany while the sedan was in South Africa. It’s a great point. I just prefer a sedan. I’ve looked at the GT and Es as well, which I think are all built in Germany, but I prefer the relative compactness of the C class, especially on the east coast (and particularly in NYC)
Hopefully I can get a deal ironed out today and still take delivery next week
Sounds like you made up your mind, hope all goes well. Are you still doing that PPI though?
Sounds like you made up your mind, hope all goes well. Are you still doing that PPI though?
I would for the one at the NC Toyota dealer but not the one that is a CPO @ MB Music City in Nashville. Perhaps that is a risk, but I’ve beat them up so much on my nit picking, price reductions, and extras (all season floor mats, updated navigation software), that I think they are done.
I would for the one at the NC Toyota dealer but not the one that is a CPO @ MB Music City in Nashville. Perhaps that is a risk, but I’ve beat them up so much on my nit picking, price reductions, and extras (all season floor mats, updated navigation software), that I think they are done.
the front bumper was painted at some point
If you are not in a rush I recommend just keep looking, these two aren't thaaat good examples that you must have for example, especially the tuned one that is a red flag.
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