Replacing ABC with a regular strut or coilover setup
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 12
From: Charleston, SC
GL450
The W220 does not use the same suspension. The cost of all those stock parts would far exceed the cost of fixing the ABC anyway.
You're better off going to an independent shop. You could replace every single suspension part for less than 11 grand.
You're better off going to an independent shop. You could replace every single suspension part for less than 11 grand.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
CL 600
The quote actually came from an independant shop. I had to sit down when i first saw the figure, but they line itemed it so i could see how they came up with that figure.
Im in contact with some people right now regarding the coilover setup. Ill be the first to mention coilovers wont help resale, and given its weight will probably never ride like ABC. But i plan on keeping the car so i am doing this for me.
Can anyone tell me if there is a power steering pump that will definitely fit? Maybe from a m275 platform without ABC. Not sure if that even exists.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 5
From: Miami, FL
06 CLS55 Renntech stage 5, 04 CL600 ( will miss ),02e55 , 11 R350
$11K seems a bit on the outrageous side ... four struts rebuilt and life warranteed at $700 each , redo the hydraulic lines from scratch using custom fabricated ones with new fittings ... how much would a rebuilt hydraulic pump cost ? Labor from an indie .. I havent done it myself but I still think it can be done for far less than $11K.. there is gentleman on the Cl55 forum who apparently done the conversion to coilovers , I dont know the details , but he clearly says that its not for the faint of heart , and not for a dd car . I would be very concerned about tampering with the overall balance of such a heavy car and never having ride the same ever again.. thats my 2c .... I would tend to think that this conversion best done by someone like Brabus with their bottomless pockets, and R&D to get it done right , but chances are if Brabus had a kit , it would be $29K LOL ..
Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 141
Likes: 0
2005 CL65 (current), 2001 CL600 (chopped)
Heres a recap of recent evernts with my car. The red ABC light came on so i took the car in. A diagnosis revealed tiny metal particles throughout the system. The proper fix is $11000 for a whole new system and labor, etc. The temporary fix is $2500-3000 to get back on the road and theres no guarantee how long it will last. Ive decided to invest no money into the ABC, and instead focus all energies on making coilovers fit.
Can anyone confirm if the w220 S class uses our exact same suspension, as in are the part numbers and everything a direct fit? If so i believe the european market w220's had and option for the standard suspension. I cant remember where i read this(maybe the s class section), but if this is true id like to find these parts(shocks/springs, power steering pump, sway bars, control arms, etc) and put them on my car.
Can anyone confirm if the w220 S class uses our exact same suspension, as in are the part numbers and everything a direct fit? If so i believe the european market w220's had and option for the standard suspension. I cant remember where i read this(maybe the s class section), but if this is true id like to find these parts(shocks/springs, power steering pump, sway bars, control arms, etc) and put them on my car.
EDIT: Where can you get rebuilt struts for 700?
Last edited by ch33sehead; Nov 16, 2011 at 02:06 AM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 12
From: Charleston, SC
GL450
The SL65 Black Series is a V12 without ABC. That might work. Or reroute the pump back into itself. Until you start digging into EPC, buying random parts, and trying to fabricate them, it's really just speculative.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 5
From: Miami, FL
06 CLS55 Renntech stage 5, 04 CL600 ( will miss ),02e55 , 11 R350
Most W220 S-Classes have Airmatic. The ones with ABC are about 80-90% the same with the CL. The AMG system differs about 50% from the non-AMG ones, and the V12 system has a couple different parts. Some 03+ parts are different from 00-02 parts. There is a lot of stuff you need to know.
EDIT: Where can you get rebuilt struts for 700?
EDIT: Where can you get rebuilt struts for 700?
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
CL 600
+1 on this.
BTW i called Arnott as there was a rumor they were working on a conversion to struts. The guy i talked to had no idea what i was talking about. I called KW America. The guy i spoke to their had very little info about the SL65 Black and said their are currently no coilovers for it. Im pretty sure there are though based on posts here as well as a pic ive seen.
Even if the ABC fix were only $5k im pretty sure i can get the coilover setup built for that. I think the proper spring rates and damping rates along with the comfort springs you see at the top of some coilovers will help. Oddly enough i have driven this thing around ever since it left the shop with no light comming on again. Kinda hard to want to shell money towards something that isnt broke...but i guess its really just a matter of time.
maxwerks-do you have any idea who that guy with the cl55 was, maybe a screen name?
BTW i called Arnott as there was a rumor they were working on a conversion to struts. The guy i talked to had no idea what i was talking about. I called KW America. The guy i spoke to their had very little info about the SL65 Black and said their are currently no coilovers for it. Im pretty sure there are though based on posts here as well as a pic ive seen.
Even if the ABC fix were only $5k im pretty sure i can get the coilover setup built for that. I think the proper spring rates and damping rates along with the comfort springs you see at the top of some coilovers will help. Oddly enough i have driven this thing around ever since it left the shop with no light comming on again. Kinda hard to want to shell money towards something that isnt broke...but i guess its really just a matter of time.
maxwerks-do you have any idea who that guy with the cl55 was, maybe a screen name?
Last edited by 240M3SRT; Nov 16, 2011 at 11:32 PM.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 5
From: Miami, FL
06 CLS55 Renntech stage 5, 04 CL600 ( will miss ),02e55 , 11 R350
The member's name is dynodaddy , and he was selling the entire stock strut system :
https://mbworld.org/forums/suspensio...sion-sale.html
I couldnt find any post by him describing the conversion .. but apparently he did it ..if you get any info from him let us know .. it is all interesting . BTW , I spoke to Arnott , and they confirmed that they do in fact carry the ABC struts for the W215 @ $600 per plus $200 core . so the system is , struts, lines, accumulators , and pump .. is this correct or am I missing anything .
https://mbworld.org/forums/suspensio...sion-sale.html
I couldnt find any post by him describing the conversion .. but apparently he did it ..if you get any info from him let us know .. it is all interesting . BTW , I spoke to Arnott , and they confirmed that they do in fact carry the ABC struts for the W215 @ $600 per plus $200 core . so the system is , struts, lines, accumulators , and pump .. is this correct or am I missing anything .
Last edited by maxwerks; Nov 17, 2011 at 07:31 AM. Reason: sp
MB World Stories
The Best of Mercedes & AMG
Manual Mercedes? 6 Times Sindelfingen Let Drivers Have All The Fun
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Verdad Gallardo
8 Classic Boxy Mercedes Designs That Have Aged Like Fine Wine
Verdad Gallardo
Flawlessly Restored Mercedes 190E Evo II Heads to Auction
Verdad Gallardo
Electric Mercedes C-Class Unveiled: 11 Things You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes EQS Gets A Major Update: Everything You Need to Know
Verdad Gallardo
5 Underrated Mercedes-Benz Models That Don't Get the Love They Deserve
Verdad Gallardo
Mercedes 300D Has Pushed Well Past 1 Million Miles and It Ain't Stopping
Verdad Gallardo
10 Most Reliable Mercedes-Benz Models You Can Buy Used
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Dallas
CL 600
The member's name is dynodaddy , and he was selling the entire stock strut system :
https://mbworld.org/forums/suspensio...sion-sale.html
I couldnt find any post by him describing the conversion .. but apparently he did it ..if you get any info from him let us know .. it is all interesting . BTW , I spoke to Arnott , and they confirmed that they do in fact carry the ABC struts for the W215 @ $600 per plus $200 core . so the system is , struts, lines, accumulators , and pump .. is this correct or am I missing anything .
https://mbworld.org/forums/suspensio...sion-sale.html
I couldnt find any post by him describing the conversion .. but apparently he did it ..if you get any info from him let us know .. it is all interesting . BTW , I spoke to Arnott , and they confirmed that they do in fact carry the ABC struts for the W215 @ $600 per plus $200 core . so the system is , struts, lines, accumulators , and pump .. is this correct or am I missing anything .
I assume the computer will no doubt throw a red ABC light with the components missing. Ive been speaking with someone who is confident they can over ride this. But im wondering if any other systems work in direct connection with the ABC? In other words assuming my completed coilovers are on the car, i make the pump work for power steering only, and all ABC components are removed is the car going to start right up and shift correctly, no limp mode, etc?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 12
From: Charleston, SC
GL450
The goal would be to code it out in SDS. You should be able to do this. You can generally set the ECU to recognize Airmatic, ABC, or neither. The E class, for example, comes with Airmatic or not. The S comes with Airmatic or ABC. You should be able to program that setting and then it won't expect to find that component anymore, much like programming HIDs or all sorts of other stuff.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 12
From: Charleston, SC
GL450
Ok, I checked in the parts catalog, and am now confused. I pulled up a 2003 CL in parts.com, and went to rear suspension, suspension components, shock absorber, and viewed the image. I see what is clearly a sway bar and end links (parts 14-16) and also shocks, both ABC and not, which appears to be potentially S and CL compatible. However, those are probably airmatic. I think you would want to make a custom conventional shock and use the stock spring and control arm from an S class and then code the ABC system off.
Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
From: SC
2003 Lincoln LS V8
Possible Option for the Pump
Has anybody considered using the power steering pump from an E55 or CLS55? Assuming the V8's and V12's use the same ABC tandem pump the brackets and connectors should be the same, so it may be possible to use the P/S pump from a V8 on a V12.
MBworld Guru
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,345
Likes: 10
From: Irvine
04 CL55, 05 E500S4, 15 BMW i3 REx
So I'm looking on EPC, and I can't seem to find any 220 chassis that uses spring and shock. I'm even looking at S280s...any insight?
It does seem the R230 guys get a non-ABC advantage...damn.
It does seem the R230 guys get a non-ABC advantage...damn.
Last edited by OCKlasse; Nov 24, 2011 at 06:33 PM.
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
2001 s500
arnott replacement
hi, 2001 s500; just replace the airmatics with arnott ind. coil overs....
ride good... have to deal with reprogramming the n51 computer now to get rid of the error codes...
i also have a BAS and ESP codes coming up....is this normal ?
jamesR
ride good... have to deal with reprogramming the n51 computer now to get rid of the error codes...
i also have a BAS and ESP codes coming up....is this normal ?
jamesR
MBworld Guru
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,345
Likes: 10
From: Irvine
04 CL55, 05 E500S4, 15 BMW i3 REx
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,803
Likes: 12
From: Charleston, SC
GL450
Airmatic is more like a conventional suspension, it should still have springs and sway bars. You should just need to swap the shock.
ABC is a totally different system, it replaces the whole suspension.
ABC is a totally different system, it replaces the whole suspension.
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
2001 s500
arnott replacement
well, the car looks same, drives same...
it's just coil over bilsteins....
i have to send in the n51 computer into them to reprogram, so that the ESP, BAS, and airmatic warning lights are taken out...
o/w, it seems like a good way to go and avoid the airmatic leaks...
jim
2001 s500 90K miles
it's just coil over bilsteins....
i have to send in the n51 computer into them to reprogram, so that the ESP, BAS, and airmatic warning lights are taken out...
o/w, it seems like a good way to go and avoid the airmatic leaks...
jim
2001 s500 90K miles
MBworld Guru
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,345
Likes: 10
From: Irvine
04 CL55, 05 E500S4, 15 BMW i3 REx
well, the car looks same, drives same...
it's just coil over bilsteins....
i have to send in the n51 computer into them to reprogram, so that the ESP, BAS, and airmatic warning lights are taken out...
o/w, it seems like a good way to go and avoid the airmatic leaks...
jim
2001 s500 90K miles
it's just coil over bilsteins....
i have to send in the n51 computer into them to reprogram, so that the ESP, BAS, and airmatic warning lights are taken out...
o/w, it seems like a good way to go and avoid the airmatic leaks...
jim
2001 s500 90K miles
Super Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 939
Likes: 5
From: Del Mar, CA
2003 CL600 2005 745Li
240M3SRT have you been following this this post ...
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...art-3-a-5.html
sergs99m3 (Serg) at http://benz-works.com/ is a WIZ he is HIGHLY recommended as the best in So Ca. My Cars PO would not take my CL600 any where else. Serg has been doing coilovers on the E55's and now is starting to do ABC cars also, you should contact him.
Let us know how it goes.
.
https://mbworld.org/forums/w211-amg/...art-3-a-5.html
sergs99m3 (Serg) at http://benz-works.com/ is a WIZ he is HIGHLY recommended as the best in So Ca. My Cars PO would not take my CL600 any where else. Serg has been doing coilovers on the E55's and now is starting to do ABC cars also, you should contact him.
Let us know how it goes.
.
Member
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 192
Likes: 1
'04 E55 AMG
i emailed adam from arnott. he got back and said hopefully by Feb 2012 there will be a coil over kit. costing around $3k. I'm guessing its going to about 5-6 months after the anticipated date he gave me until it actually comes out. I was going to spend $4k on an extended warranty for my car but i'm gonna pray that when ABC issues start arising for my car the kit is out by then. Then I can just spend $4k on the conversion.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 8,882
Likes: 1,212
From: In my garage
E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
That may not be a bad plan. You can buy the warranty to cover the ABC but the car will still have ABC problems once the warranty is out. If you use that money to replace the ABC, the car will be more reliable long after the extended warranty is gone.
The ABC is a constant maintenance nightmare becase there are no safety features in place to prevent the system from grenading when a hose fails. When a pump fails, there is no filter to catch the metal particulates from contaminating the valve blocks and struts. It would seem that the safety features could be added at the factory for not much money.
The ABC is a constant maintenance nightmare becase there are no safety features in place to prevent the system from grenading when a hose fails. When a pump fails, there is no filter to catch the metal particulates from contaminating the valve blocks and struts. It would seem that the safety features could be added at the factory for not much money.
