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I picked up a used m113k motor from a 2006 CLS to be rebuilt... Last known mileage was under 100k if I recall correctly from the information from the junkyard, which matched the info found in the Mercedes vehicle data history as well.
the car was clearly on fire, you may even be able to tell by the photos. This engine will be receiving a full rebuild, new gaskets, bearings, bolts, etc all according to spec. Even with my discount with Mercedes this will not be a cheap project
here are some photos of the initial tear down/investigation. Lots and lots of crud in the engine, it looks like the car was extinguished/on fire while the engine was still running even! Every part will be receiving a very thorough cleaning to see if any components are even worth re -using
at that point it will be time to decide whether this engine will be built with all OEM Mercedes parts, or whether this engine may get sleeved to be able to handle over 900whp
Got started on the disassembly of my w215 today, along with a new engine the car is getting a new radiator and air conditioning condenser. I decided it was easier to pull the front bumper to be able to delete all unnecessary ABC oem parts. I’ve also decided to delete the headlight washer sprayer system. Where I live in Florida, the system is entirely useless...
the new motor will likely have the best combination of the two motors. Learning from others experiences, it seems the n/a 55 amg cylinder heads have more potential than the m113k cylinder heads... there’s a small chance I may even use the n/a 55 amg pistons...
there’s also the possibility of sleeves and stronger pistons altogether. Time will tell, but the project is well underway at this rate. Feels great to have installed a/c in the garage to get away from the bugs and humidity while working on the car outside of the shop
M113k heads and cams on one bench The amg n/a engine ready to be pulled Closer pic of the m113k cams and heads
pictured below are some different angles of only the bottom half of a m113 n/a manifold, with the internal flaps/runners all removed.
the goal with this intake manifold is to bypass the variable length intake runner crap that Mercedes designed for the n/a motors. If you compare the supercharged m113 with the n/a m113, you’ll quickly see this variable intake crap was only installed on the n/a motors to help airflow of an engine struggling to swallow adequate amounts of fresh air
when the intake air is charged by a turbo or supercharger, most of this variable length runner stuff is useless. So I’ve decided to not only remove all of the internal runners, but another goal with this intake manifold is to reduce the overall volume of the intake manifold by about 40%
to do so, I will be cutting a flat piece of aluminum to mount between the top and bottom of the intake manifold. This will effectively delete an extra/unneeded 30-40% of the intake manifold overall volume, seeing as the cylinder head ports and the throttle body ports on the intake are all within the lower half of the intake, the lower half can be modified with a die grinder or dremel to knock down the “inner” thin walls(seen in the fourth photo in particular) separating the intake runners and the intake manifold main chamber
the top and bottom halves of the manifold are mostly flat, with the exception of the throttle body mounting area(as seen in the third photo). a flat piece of metal and some sealant, will prove to be an extremely cheap way to design a custom turbo m113 and reduce the volume within the intake required to pressurize the intake for boost. Which results in faster turbo response/ less turbo lag
some may even argue that the aforementioned mods could create more turbulent air in the cylinder head, for a more thorough atomization process In the combustion chamber...
Last edited by ctravis595; 08-11-2020 at 02:54 PM.
Just looking at all those pieces, I am almost scared to drive my 2001 CL500 with over 260.000 kms - in case I have an engine failure and have to get all this work done.
How many hours of labour do you expect you will have to put into your "project" ??
Just looking at all those pieces, I am almost scared to drive my 2001 CL500 with over 260.000 kms - in case I have an engine failure and have to get all this work done.
How many hours of labour do you expect you will have to put into your "project" ??
Without racing/abusing these engines, I would not worry about any reliability issues from your m113, they are ordinarily very robust until they are driven mercilessly
however, as you get closer to 300,000kms, I recommend you should consider a few things as “maintenance”. Around the 1990’s, most European car manufacturers started using plastic timing chain guides. It was a gesture to reduce mechanical noise from the engine(“luxury”), as metal chains sliding on plastic guides will be much quieter than metal guides
the downside is that after 20 years and 200,000 miles, the plastic guides can start to break apart after countless heat cycles.
complete timing chain guide failure is more common on Bmw motors of this era, however I have seen firsthand evidence of deteriorating in the m113 Mercedes timing guides
if this is not handled. And the guides break apart, the pistons can actually damage the valves(and vice versa) due to the design of this engine being an “interference” engine where the pistons and valves share the same space, just as different times in the combustion cycle.
with the chains, the timing chain tensioner is also recommended to be replaced
this will require a bit of work, and will be a great time to replace the two o-rings behind the front timing cover that are developing a reputation for volatility as these engines get older. It would probably be a good time to re-seal the rear main seal of the engine
otherwise with regular maintenance, these motors reallly will see 400k-500k miles with few problems
as far as hours for this particular project, the hours are endless. I didn’t know much about cars when I bought this car maybe 9 years ago, and since then I’ve used it as an opportunity to learn the inner workings of automobiles. Now I’m a Mercedes tech, so this is all a big investment as a learning experience/hands on practice for me. And it’s nice to have a German sports car with 600horserpower when you’re finished of course
Without racing/abusing these engines, I would not worry about any reliability issues from your m113, they are ordinarily very robust until they are driven mercilessly
however, as you get closer to 300,000kms, I recommend you should consider a few things as “maintenance”. Around the 1990’s, most European car manufacturers started using plastic timing chain guides. It was a gesture to reduce mechanical noise from the engine(“luxury”), as metal chains sliding on plastic guides will be much quieter than metal guides
the downside is that after 20 years and 200,000 miles, the plastic guides can start to break apart after countless heat cycles.
complete timing chain guide failure is more common on Bmw motors of this era, however I have seen firsthand evidence of deteriorating in the m113 Mercedes timing guides
if this is not handled. And the guides break apart, the pistons can actually damage the valves(and vice versa) due to the design of this engine being an “interference” engine where the pistons and valves share the same space, just as different times in the combustion cycle.
with the chains, the timing chain tensioner is also recommended to be replaced
this will require a bit of work, and will be a great time to replace the two o-rings behind the front timing cover that are developing a reputation for volatility as these engines get older. It would probably be a good time to re-seal the rear main seal of the engine
otherwise with regular maintenance, these motors reallly will see 400k-500k miles with few problems
as far as hours for this particular project, the hours are endless. I didn’t know much about cars when I bought this car maybe 9 years ago, and since then I’ve used it as an opportunity to learn the inner workings of automobiles. Now I’m a Mercedes tech, so this is all a big investment as a learning experience/hands on practice for me. And it’s nice to have a German sports car with 600horserpower when you’re finished of course
Thank you for your reply. This being my 10th Mercedes,(during the last 60 years) I do have some experience with the plastic guides and other problems, but I am happy to hear about the reliability of the M113 engine I agree, it usually are other problems with high kilometers, rarely the engines.
ABC being one of them on the W215
Current view of the right side of my garage. If you look closely you’ll see Getrag420 6-speed manual trans (Bmw) 5hp24 5 speed auto trans (Bmw) M62tu44 v8 engine (Bmw) M113K torn down and an M113 55 n/a
last week I disassembled the bank 1 cylinder head from my existing 55n/a motor. To my surprise all of the head, including valves, springs, lifters etc look fine. It seems my loss of compression has to do with the rings on cylinder 6. This will be confirmed soon when that engine has it’s pistons and crank removed..
today I’ve taken out the rods and pistons from the M113K donor motor, to my surprise the cylinder walls are all in good shape, minus some superficial markings which I believe can be smoothed with a quick honing with the alusil-specific paste
so at this point it looks like I may indeed use the M113K block as well as the rods and crank. As seen below, the pistons and rods look a bit dirty but I believe they will clean up nicely. About half the connecting rod bearings had spun to a small degree
whether or not I go with M113K or M113K n/a 55 pistons is yet to be decided..
M113K donor engine - pistons and rods
here is the current proposed build list of the hybrid M113K Engine build -
-m113k block
-m113k crankshaft (with a n/a crank pulley)
-m113k (or M113 pistons for higher compression (???))
-M113K con rods
-m113 n/a timing cover
-M113 Oil pans, oil pump
-m113 heads
-M113K cams/valves/springs etc
-modified M113 turbo intake manifold (from n/a motors)
-M113 throttle body
-Bosch 2.8 engine management (may convert to 2.8.1 eventually for a map based ecu)
even with my employee discount, a full rebuild of all bearings, rings and seals in an M113K looks like it will cost around $2000. Closer to $2500 when the special tools for the honing, rtv sealant, fluids and supplies are considered
This is not accounting for whether the cylinder heads may need machined for flatness (I expect this service to cost around $300-400), does not account for whether I will be having an M113K ecu (Bosch 2.8.1) programmed for my car ($800 service), and does not account for replacement cams, springs and bearings I am considering due to the fire damage of the M113K donor engine (estimated $300-400 for used parts)
regarding the rest of the car I am looking at twin rear mount gt3076 style turbos, with a Volvo penta marine engine intake valve drawing fresh air at throttle onset. With the valve normally being designed for twin charged engines.
the intake valve should provide a quick, n/a-like throttle response while the twin gt3076 turbos should spool quickly and provide a very useable power band.
This current aim of this build is a very streetable 600-650hp at the wheels with very few issue of heat soak, etc. All while maintaining much of the original Mercedes luxuries such as a/c, power steering, windshield fluid sprayers, etc. when finished the engine bay should look almost entirely stock, with the trunk being re-designed to house twin turbos, subwoofers/amps for an enhanced sound system, and storage space for a spare tire as well. As seen with the initial trunk mounted turbo on this car, the trunk remains relatively cool when provided with enough ventilation, and the exhaust system and turbo heat-wrapped.
the oem design of the trunk already provides a fair amount of ambient airflow. Hence why a normally functioning trunk does not smell “stale”, nor does humidity have a chance to build up. This is because there are two large vents on either side of the trunk walls. Eventually some sort of air intake ducting/scoops will be installed to help feed the turbo intake feeds with some fresh air. I may simultaneously design some sort of ducting to provide even more “ambient” airflow through the trunk.
Last edited by ctravis595; 08-16-2020 at 06:27 PM.
I have discovered that my plan to eliminate a large portion of the volume of the intake manifold will not work as I planned. After taking a closer look I realized it’s just not as simple as I hoped to efficiently reduce the overall volume of the intake manifold
in other news, I have officially discovered the reason why my cl55 n/a engine was down on compression on cylinder 6. Frankly it’s quite impressive that the engine still had so much power, whilst not damaging any cylinder walls with this failure of the ring lands
in the photos you can see the ring land failure. Luckily the cylinder walls look pristine so I very much so plan on re-using this n/a 55 block for my M113k hybrid build. I have also included photos of a side by side comparison of the m113k vs M113 55 n/a pistons. Hence the thicker ring lands on the m113k pistons. The m113k pistons are on the left in the photos
another thing you’ll notice is that amg decided to get rid of two things with the n/a 55 piston/rod setup
-the M113k no longer has the oil port running through the center of the connecting rod. This must have been discovered to be a weak point in the connecting rod
-the m113k pistons no longer have a cool “amg” logo on the bottom of the piston head
Was hoping you were going to ditch the idea of rear mount turbos. Seems strange to do all that work and go to a system that is not ideal. Most add rear mounts because they don't want to take out the engine to do the fabrication work or if there is no space for traditional turbos. Since your engine is out, would be a good time to do custom turbo manifolds and a really nicely designed system. Maybe you could adapt the M157 turbos to fit your car?
Was hoping you were going to ditch the idea of rear mount turbos. Seems strange to do all that work and go to a system that is not ideal. Most add rear mounts because they don't want to take out the engine to do the fabrication work or if there is no space for traditional turbos. Since your engine is out, would be a good time to do custom turbo manifolds and a really nicely designed system. Maybe you could adapt the M157 turbos to fit your car?
with the right turbo sizing, I don’t think it’s impossible at all to get respectable performance from a rear mount. I mean I just grabbed the cheapest semi truck holset on eBay and was able to get power improvements throughout all rpm. It can only get better from there with a higher turbo budget and more attention paid to turbo sizing. There are countless corvettes, mustangs etc dominating races with rear mount setups. The idea of the turbo not being heat soaked by anything, and the idea of moving the heat of the turbo away from the engine bay is still too enticing for me. I’ve seen how warm compressor housings can get in a rear mount setup, the engine bay actually seems like a questionable place in general in regards to heat soak. I understand how the warmth of the exhaust can help spool when placed near the engine but how much are intake air temps effected in the process? Rear mount also virtually eliminates the need for turbo timers/cool off time
Last edited by ctravis595; 08-31-2020 at 08:10 PM.
The engine build plan has officially been decided. I've ordered 7 of the 8 necessary piston ring sets, which are not cheap, but my employee discount helped a lot . Mercedes officially has no more piston ring sets available for these engines. However they are not officially discontinued, so it seems they will have future batches produced.
Based on inspection of all of my best m113 parts, and the hassle of retrofitting a frankenstein hybrid oil pump, i will be going with the 02 cl55 block I have. My inital instinct for this build was to use the high compression n/a pistons, I was thinking of shooting for 600-650whp on pump gas, running low to moderate boost levels, with high compression pistons. but finding the broken ringlands on my cylinder 6 piston from the n/a motor, i have instead decided to use the stronger and lower compression pistons from the m113k block and instead rely on boost levels for power. Instead of 600-650whp with the high compression pistons, I will be aiming for a very healthy 550-600whp with the lower compression pistons instead. I'd like the engine to be able to withstand lots of abuse. Another reason for the 02 cl55 block is that I can easily re-use my cl55 oil pan and oil pump setup. The cl55 oil pump, timing and oil chains are in great shape so all that will be needed for the oiling system is new gaskets and some cleaning.
I've been looking into the idea of ceramic coating the pistons before the engine is built
The long term plan is to use the other cls55 m113k crank and block for a later project where I will be sleeving the motor for much higher power levels, but maybe less suitable for a daily driver. the 2002 cl55 n/a block and crank should hold up great for 500-600whp in a daily driver.
In other news I've been researching flow characteristics from twin turbo setups. I've been considering the projected usage, the engine displacement, as well as the current rear differential setup I have with my car, which is the original 2002 cl500 rear dif, which I believe has 2.82 gearing. With this setup, and a higher stall torque converter it seems I would want to err on the smaller side when making a decision on which twin turbos I'll go with. Considering I am not looking to hit any land speed records, and seeing how well some of the smaller OEM turbo designs are flowing, I think an oversized turbo is hardly the way to go. Originally I considered a single gt35/gt40 style turbo. Eventually I started toying with the idea of twin gt3076 style turbos. the past week or so I've even considered going as small as gt2870 or gt2860 turbos. Backpressure is surely a substantial consideration when dealing with a 5.4 liter engine, but considering the exhaust will be straight piped besides the turbos, I think the backpressure shouldn't be too bad granted I provide adequate exhaust post-turbo.
I've also briefly considered a compound turbo setup, instead of twin turbos. But ultimately I think twin turbos just have much more curb appeal
I will be re-using the standalone turbo oiling system from the original turbo setup on this car.
Some other things going into the car during this build will be a new radiator, new a/c condenser, and I'd also like to install a dedicated transmission cooler while I have the front bumper apart. The exhaust will be heatwrapped, and right now I am debating whether I should run dual 2.35" exhaust pipes to each turbo, or if there would even be a significant difference in turbo flow if the exhaust merged before it reached each turbo. In a sort of "x pipe pre turbo" kind of fashion. Most people run twin turbos with each turbo receiving exhaust stream from one cylinder bank each. But most people are also not mounting the turbos in the rear of the car either
Last edited by ctravis595; 09-04-2020 at 09:32 PM.
N/a rod “width” at the thinnest point k motor rod at the thinnest point N/a piston K piston N/a piston K piston N/a piston K piston N/a piston K piston K piston N/a rod K rod N/a piston
hopefully these photos help illustrate what I first noticed visibly, the K rods and pistons are more substantial in practically everyway, from the piston skirts to the thickness of the connecting rods. Sometimes that half a millimeter difference in construction means the difference between a rod breaking or holding. Sometimes that means the difference between making it down the track safely or not.
the higher compression n/a pistons sounds fun, but I think the K pistons are the way to go for reliability
Last edited by ctravis595; 09-06-2020 at 04:59 PM.
with the right turbo sizing, I don’t think it’s impossible at all to get respectable performance from a rear mount. I mean I just grabbed the cheapest semi truck holset on eBay and was able to get power improvements throughout all rpm. It can only get better from there with a higher turbo budget and more attention paid to turbo sizing. There are countless corvettes, mustangs etc dominating races with rear mount setups. The idea of the turbo not being heat soaked by anything, and the idea of moving the heat of the turbo away from the engine bay is still too enticing for me. I’ve seen how warm compressor housings can get in a rear mount setup, the engine bay actually seems like a questionable place in general in regards to heat soak. I understand how the warmth of the exhaust can help spool when placed near the engine but how much are intake air temps effected in the process? Rear mount also virtually eliminates the need for turbo timers/cool off time
ive been putting more thought into the rear versus front mount turbo systems. I think I may actually do some twin turbos in the engine bay, in place of the oem w215 wiper fluid reservoir
the reservoir will be reduced in size, and re-located somewhere into the front bumper. This will let me keep the sensible oem luxuries while adding turbos
the coolant reservoir will be moved further back near the front passenger Sam, this will keep the coolant reservoir higher than the rest of the system, such as the rest of the design. This serves to allow the system to self bleed
the trick will be getting twin turbos to fit in the space where the wiper fluid reservoir used to sit.... for this reason I’ve even been looking at a pair of gt2870/71 sized turbos, considering I only am looking to make 550-600hp max on this motor.
The plan is to use the water cooling side of the turbos to keep things cool. Luckily the oem windshield wiper tank has a coolant feed coil. This is normally made to warm up the cold wiper fluid in cold climates. But being in Florida, this does not serve much purpose for me
otherwise, heat wrap and some clever air duct work will be needed to flush warm air from the turbos and the engine area. I’ve had some ideas to make air scoops that extend from the fog light area of the bumper, to capture more airflow for the engine bay and air intakes
Luckily the w215 V8 cars leave some space between the engine and the radiator fan, for a crossover exhaust pipe connecting the driver side engine bank to the turbo placed on the passenger side. If this doesn’t work, I’ve seen some people wrap the pipe around the transmission, from underneath
Ideally, I would like to re-use much of the oem exhaust for turbo back exhaust piping. It’s hard to beat the routing of the oem exhaust
the system would have a larger emphasis on porting and polishing of the cylinder heads, intake manifold porting and modification, and effective intercooling.
currently I am in the stages of cleaning the old parts, acquiring engine rebuild hardware and seals slowly, as it becomes available/affordable.
I am also at a crossroads of wondering if I should re-use a modified magnesium n/a 55 intake Manifold, or invest in a tig welder capable of putting together a decent custom aluminum manifold. I’ve been finding old threads of people porting, and modifying the intakes years ago, but many of the pictures once posted have been deleted by Photobucket and other image hosting sites back then...
I’ve ordered one of the two turbos, to start making headway with how the piping and turbos will be mounted in the engine bay if possible.
I’ve decided to go with twin gt2860 turbos with the larger .86 ar exhaust housing. One of these turbos is usually said to make between 300-400 horsepower. So with the two of them, they should give a really nicely usable powerband, while still being able to adequately achieve 600hp or so.
the turbos are t25/28 flange setup. I’ve been looking at some short length headers, but I believe I will be using the OEM exhaust manifolds for the meantime. I believe they are double-walled which should retain a lot of heat/energy to deliver to the turbos. These turbos should spool quick as ****
However from what I understand these oem exhaust manifolds are terrible for trying to make over 600hp. Pictured below is how the oem exhaust manifold outlet compares with the t25/28 for whoever thinks twin t25’s would be too small of a package for a v8. Also included are some photos of the turbo, and the easiest way to mount twin turbos on an M113 engine. By flipping over the exhaust manifolds and attaching some turbo flanges on the end
it looks like with the wiper fluid reservoir/coolant overflow tank relocated, and maybe relocating the power steering reservoir, it would be very simple to tuck a few smaller framed t25/28 sized turbos next to the M113 in a w215.
Granted I have extra room with the abc reservoir I’ve deleted, and the abc pump was also fairly bulky as well. But it seems the turbos could draw ambient air( through the factory air intake scoops next to the radiator) quite easily with the turbos placed on the exhaust manifolds.
the turbo-back exhaust (re-using most of the length of the oem exhaust) and the cold side routing are the only questions left. It seems a two-to-one output intercooler would be the easiest setup with the least amount of charge pipe length. However I am also considering smaller twin intercoolers where the oem fog lights used to exist, in the front bumper
Last edited by ctravis595; 10-11-2020 at 03:42 AM.
in the meantime I wanted to share an experiment I did on the n/a M113 intake manifold which surprised me. And show a bargain turbo manifold I picked up for about $75
the entire planning stage of this build, there’s been a few lingering questions. One of which was whether or not this project was worthwhile to continue while using a modified n/a M113 OEM manifold (gutted out) or whether it only made sense to design a custom intake manifold
well today I answered my own question.... I also figured out a huge reason why I’ve always had slow building, but powerful boost on this car since I installed a rear mount turbo
the freaking internal volume of the intake manifold on m113 engines is over 17 liters!! most engine builders recommend an intake manifold somewhere between 100-150% size of the engine displacement. The stock intake on an M113 is roughly 300% the size of the displacement. Even more so on 430/43 cars.
the intake manifold normally has a series of vacuum actuated flaps, and intake runner systems to optimize this volume, so it’s not much of an issue on n/a motors
but now we clearly see why Mercedes altogether got rid of this intake manifold for 55k cars
that means in order for your Individual cylinders to finally see 7psi of boost, your turbo is responsible for filling not only the intercooling system internal volume, but an additional 17 liters before the cylinders are really seeing close 7 psi
this, paired with the oversized, remote-mounted turbo, perfectly explains why the boost was slow to build but the car felt like a monster at highway speeds. Oversized manifolds can be great for impressive peak power but can create lag in lower rpm.
so now it’s clear, the n/a M113 intake manifold is a waste of time in my opinion for turbo cars unless it was being used on a 900hp car with forged internals and all that Jazz. And even that car still may be slow to build power
some companies are selling aluminum intake manifold spacers for M113, so it looks like this will be the starting point for a custom aluminum turbo intake manifold. Much better than the massive magnesium hunk of crap I was originally planning on using. This also gives me the chance to design a front-facing intake manifold which will be exponentially better for a turbo charged car
In other news: I recently came across a complete bargain, some guy was selling a custom short-length free flowing header project for M113 cars, for about $75! He only built one side, but he included the flanges to build the other manifold, and also included two extra OEM manifolds with.
as you can see in the below pictures, the OEM exhaust manifolds are quite pitiful. I’m not sure why Mercedes thought the OEM manifolds we’re suitable to put on cars rated at 493hp from the factory. However, high quality replacements are expensive, and oftentimes would be considered fragile for mounting turbos onto. So I’m very glad to have come across even just one of these exhaust manifolds for so cheap. I am currently looking for an experienced welder to re create the other manifold. Then the manifolds will be getting t25 turbo flanges on the outputs 44mm custom exhaust manifold inlet 35mm OEM exhaust manifold inlet Innards of the pitiful M113 OEM exhaust manifold
here’s a crude function diagram of the custom intake manifold/intercooler design
originally I wanted to do a nice air to air intercooler in the front bumper
however with how the w215 is designed, it seems fairly difficult to route the piping in a nice way
so a friend suggested maybe to use the m113k supercharger intercooler. At first I didn’t think this was a good idea because of the location of putting an intercooler in the V of the engine, M113k’s are notorious for heatsoak after all. however with turbos instead of a supercharger, I think I’ll be able to keep temperatures reasonable, especially if I go with a killer chiller type of heat exchanger setup
this will require not only a custom intake manifold, and the bypass valve port will need covered, but will need a custom Throttle body to intake manifold adapter snout
there are companies offering 10mm aluminum intake spacers for the m113 now, so this will be a good jump start on making the intake manifold plenum and runners. The intake spacers will have the injector holes, and intake ports already designed
a huge hurdle with custom intake manifolds, and even OEM manifolds have this problem, but it’s imperative to get equal airflow to all 8 cylinders, if not you will end up with certain cylinders running too rich, etc
the internal volume of the plenum is going to be aimed around 5.5 liters, to suitably match the engine displacement, instead of using the massive 16+ liter n/a intake manifold
Well, last night I realized something while messing with the N/a intake manifold
I realized I can have a perfectly sized intake manifold by deleting the bottom half of the n/a intake manifold, and instead replacing it with a solid aluminum plate
i tested the Internal volume of just the top half of the intake manifold and I found it to be 6.1 liters. Very very close to what I wanted to custom build for this car, except this will save hundreds of dollars and many hours of time that could go towards intercooling, sensors, etc
Here is how the n/a intake manifold typically sits upon the cylinder heads. Notice how huge of a chamber exists inside of the intake manifold. This can be cool for trying to get 900 horsepower or for n/a setups, but for a quick spooling turbo setup this is not ideal for anything but top end power ... The two white lines show where I have cut the bottom half of the intake manifold so that the intake runners could be utilized for later purposes. This gives a nicely machined surface for the cylinder head to mate to the intake runners, this extends the intake runners, and it retains perfect fitment for the fuel injectors and fuel rail! Here’s what you are left with if you cut out the intake runners from the bottom half of the intake manifold Here is basically what the intake manifold will look like upon completion . Just imagine there is an aluminum plate underneath this top manifold “shell” to create a pressure-tight manifold with less than half the volume. This also creates a bunch of space in the V for the m113k intercooler to fit
furthermore I have started brainstorming my air intake design, here is a crude function diagram of the proposed design, as well as some photos to demonstrate just how tight it’s going to be fitting all of the necessary exhaust piping in the engine bay. Honestly I would LOVE to be able to keep this n/a engine cover and still fit all of the necessary turbo goodies...
The red arrows represent air intake tubing paths. As you can see the power steering reservoir, the coolant reservoir and possibly the wiper fluid reservoir will need re-located The aluminum tubing represents one of the few ways to route the turbo back exhaust, here it is depicted as running between the valve cover and the turbo manifold Here’s an example of how the turbo would hang off of the cylinder head
Last edited by ctravis595; 10-31-2020 at 08:32 PM.
Here’s a couple pictures I snapped today, I smoothed out the interior ribs of the intake manifold today, and traced out a mock-up idea of what the intake manifold bottom plate will look like. I think I will be using 1/4” aluminum. This plate will have a 80mm opening for my throttle body as well as the obvious 8 ports for the cylinder head intake runners.
if this pans out correctly, this can be the future for front-facing m113 turbo manifolds, built for under $50 in materials using your existing n/a intake manifold.
Re-using the top half of the oem manifold allows me to re-use the oem brake booster and vacuum connections to the manifold. However I do not trust the brake booster fitting to not leak under positive pressure so this will be blocked off and re-designed
Would not recommend changing the intake unless you use the M113k's intake and intercooler system for ease of install and plubing. How many big name aftermarket V8 turbo kits change the intake manifold? The only ones I've seen do so because they are running a boost level beyond what the stock intake with handle. For example, some of the plastic ones are swapped for a copy but in some form of metal that will hold the pressure.
Would not recommend changing the intake unless you use the M113k's intake and intercooler system for ease of install and plubing. How many big name aftermarket V8 turbo kits change the intake manifold? The only ones I've seen do so because they are running a boost level beyond what the stock intake with handle. For example, some of the plastic ones are swapped for a copy but in some form of metal that will hold the pressure.
I am indeed basically using the m113k intercooler/manifold system
Except instead of surge tanks(no need for surge tanks, plus they take up a lot of space on top), I am using a smaller version of the n/a m113 intake manifold. This manifold fits better in the V of the engine as well as serves a greater purpose as a plenum than the individual surge tanks would on my setup
perhaps if I was running dual throttle bodies. The m113k surge tanks would be the way to go
don’t forget that without a m113k supercharger plenum, I am without half of the intake runner design, as half of the intake runners are built into the supercharger itself
the oem n/a intake manifold is quite huge in comparison to most oem applications. It serves its purpose well on n/a cars but if you take a look at the surge tanks/manifold system on the m113k cars it has very little internal volume. This tells you that even Mercedes realized in 2002 that it’s useless to have a volumetrically large intake manifold on a boosted m113.
That paired with the fact that most manifolds are holding together the fuel rail, injectors, etc etc, it becomes clear why most turbo kits don’t swap out the manifold. for the average Honda Civic/Ford Mustang turbo kit, that probably sounds like a headache already to that crowd used to quick bolt-ons
Pressurizing an oem intake manifold designed for vacuum is one thing, disassembling and reassembling everything for an intake modification on a “quick turbo kit” is asking for vacuum leaks and unhappy customers.
Which reminds me, in stock form the m113 oem intake manifold has more than one questionable port/fitting in regards to air pressure. The brake booster connection for example, is designed for sealing under vacuum and not boost necessarily pressure. I found quite a few vacuum leaks with these vacuum fittings in the past
all of this serves another huge purpose for the platform, that before now, nobody has found a quick nor cheap way to have a front-facing intake manifold/throttle body. The throttle body on the back of the m113 has been a pain for many many people looking into boosted m113 setups
Last edited by ctravis595; 11-04-2020 at 11:47 PM.
The intake is smaller on the M113k due to space restrictions. There is a supercharger and intercooler there so it has to be smaller. The only other option is to create a higher hood. Staying with the stock intake manifold, if you were using a separate intercooler, would be the best way to go assuming you could control boost leaks. It will allow your engine to make more torque on the lower end and more power on the upper end. The M113k intake would be suitable but I would use a much larger intercooler core since the stock unit in the M113k is too small but, again, they were limited by space. Turbo systems like to breathe and the better it breathes the more power you will make. Restrictions in the system will increase your boost but will reduce your power output.
Think of it this way. If you disconnected the turbos, would the engine make more or less power with the new intake? If it would make less naturally aspirated, your system with the turbos will also make less power. A turbo just adds efficiency to your system but if you remove efficiency anywhere in the system it will reflect that power after you force air through the system.
The intake is smaller on the M113k due to space restrictions. There is a supercharger and intercooler there so it has to be smaller. The only other option is to create a higher hood. Staying with the stock intake manifold, if you were using a separate intercooler, would be the best way to go assuming you could control boost leaks. It will allow your engine to make more torque on the lower end and more power on the upper end. The M113k intake would be suitable but I would use a much larger intercooler core since the stock unit in the M113k is too small but, again, they were limited by space. Turbo systems like to breathe and the better it breathes the more power you will make. Restrictions in the system will increase your boost but will reduce your power output.
Think of it this way. If you disconnected the turbos, would the engine make more or less power with the new intake? If it would make less naturally aspirated, your system with the turbos will also make less power. A turbo just adds efficiency to your system but if you remove efficiency anywhere in the system it will reflect that power after you force air through the system.
m113k intercooler is mostly considered too small because it can’t keep up with the heat generated by the supercharger. The turbos will not be producing that much intake heat
an oversized intake manifold is only going to lend itself to throttle lag, but high dyno numbers. From my research on the subject, the custom intake manifold companies have stated that they aim for a plenum internal volume of 1x - 1.5x the displacement size of the motor. My modified intake fits that perfectly
the oem intake is closer to 3x-3.5x the displacement of the motor. That’s like incorporating two useless intercoolers for the system, each over 1.5 liters in volume. My research concludes that an oversized intake manifold can make impressive dyno numbers but when the car is driven on a track or on the street, the throttle is soggy due to the weak throttle response
when the throttle snaps open I want it to snap open and immediately start filling intake valves with charge air, if there is a large chamber between the throttle and the intake runners then that is just wasted efficiency, boost lag, etc
with positive boost pressure, and over 5.5 liters in manifold volume, the manifold will should never run out of air while filling the cylinders. The turbos would have to be severely choked, which frankly I do not see happening on a twin turbo setup rated to flow more than the engine can handle
finally within the last two weeks, Mercedes has acquired a new batch of m113 piston rings, so my last 2 piston ring sets are finally here
went ahead and bought the head gaskets/valve seals etc. the next step is to determine which crankshaft main bearings I will need to get and whether I’ll be going with OEM rod and head bolts, or possibly dishing out a little extra for the ARP hardware. My first instinct is to go with the OEM hardware... the price difference is quite huge. I think the arp hardware is about 12x more expensive
then it’s on to acquiring a felt hone setup to very very lightly smooth over the cylinder walls, and then polishing of the crankshaft. Followed by a thorough cleaning of the engine block oil and coolant passages
at That point the engine will be getting a newer layer of paint to keep everything clean and protected from corrosion
After about a week of trying, I’ve finally figured out how to lay an acceptable weld with my new setup. I have to finish out the seams on this first turbo manifold , then start from scratch on the other manifold.
Also pictured is my start on re-designing the m113k intercooler to accept a throttle body directly, instead of that bypass valve/throttle body non sense the m113k cars used
07-21-2020, 10:24 PM
