Simon Bateson

Hi, I am having a problem with my 2002 CL500 front windows as they will not sync/normalise. I have searched this and other forums, but cannot find the same issue I am having. I think I have tried everything suggested on all the forums I have found and am now out of ideas on what to do next. Any help/suggestions would be really appreciated.

I have tried all the versions of holding buttons up/down from online and my user manual and the windows refuse to sync. Also, if I open either front door, the window for that door drops all the way down and will not move with the window switches until I disconnect and reconnect the battery. Rear windows work fine with the switches and drop when the doors are opened, but will not go up automatically again. They will go back up with the window switches.

I bought the car with this problem and have so far tried the following:

• Tried two other rear window modules
• Tried replacement left and right door control modules
• Replaced the drivers door window switches
• Replaced one of the window motors and wiring
• Went through the wires in both left and right door hinges and repaired a few broken wires
• Found the interior light door switches were disconnected and reconnected them - interior light goes on/off ok
• Scanned with Foxwell scanner and have no fault codes related to doors or windows
• Checked live data with the Foxwell to confirm the window switches up/down is recognised/working
• Foxwell in live data mode identifies both windows are not normalised (synced)
• Tried with car running, not running and not running with battery charger attached to rule out this being a voltage issue

MJ50

moved to W215 forum...

tim687

Check the wiring to the doors. After extensive opening and closing of the doors, those wires will break. You got to be quick to repair them, otherwise you risk shorting the DCMs.

ejenner

I seem to remember my windows were a bit dodgy when I first bought the car. It had an alternator which was making low output and not properly charging the battery or powering the car. When I changed the alternator and the battery funny issues with the windows stopped.

tim687

I have had some thoughts about this, could you check what the DCM (door control modules) say about this in DAS/Xentry? You could try to do an Default Initialization, which will reset the module to factory settings

These cars (and thus it's modules) are very sensitive to a proper battery. Make sure to use a high current, high capacity, reputable brand AGM battery.

BenzNinja

iTrader: (4)

1) remove the battery 30 min then try again
2) use a proper tool, Xentry
3) there are no wiring to check nor disassembly (not related)

ejenner

Whilst AGM or gel batteries might be better technology I don't think AGM batteries (and never gel batteries) were OEM for a vehicle of this age. I replaced my battery with a nice chunky premium brand 5-year standard battery.

Simon Bateson

Update. Still cannot get the Windows to normalize. Looking for a reasonably priced C3 multiplexer to use with the Xentry software I have installed on an old laptop. Since original post I have tried the following:

• Replaced the other window motor and wiring
• Replaced battery for a new one
• Replaced right door lock (it was not working)

ejenner

I think it would be worth really thoroughly checking the wires. I've been reading this thread and on page 2 it gets interesting: CL500 REAR WINDOWS PROBLEM | Page 2 | Mercedes-Benz Owners' Forums (mercedesclub.org.uk)

With electrical problems on mid-2000s cars it is very rarely the control modules themselves. 9 times out of 10 it is a mechanical fault of some kind. i.e. broken / chaffed wires. Rust. Broken or seized linkages. You said you already found breaks in the wire in the door. If I were looking at it at this stage I think I'd be stripping out the door and attempting to get that door wiring harness out on the bench for a really close check. Have you got a voltmeter with a continuity testing function so you can check all the wires are okay?

Simon Bateson

Thanks for the suggestion. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond and offer the suggestion and that other post is very relevant.
I have checked the wiring on both doors and the hinges a few times now and repaired the broken wires I could find. There were also some broken wires twisted together near the DCM that someone before me had bodged (similar to that other post!). I soldered those and used heat shrink sleeves. .
I have been thinking of a continuity check of the wiring and my multimeter has the function. I tried earlier to find the car end of the harness to unplug, but couldn’t find the end. Do you know where the car end of the door harnesses terminate?
The other puzzle is that both front Windows refuse to normalise rather than just one side.

ejenner

They say many times in that other thread that the drivers door is 'common' to all systems. i.e. if the drivers door is messed up then it'll potentially effect any of the other windows.

These cars are a mystery to the vast majority of us because they're so rare compared with your everyday fords / vauxhalls that nobody has really worked out and publicised the fixes for these various issues.

I have a lot of experience dealing with modern cars in a vehicle workshop. I'm no longer doing it for a living but I've forgotten very little. When you have a puzzle like this you will normally find the answer by taking things to pieces and going through it. Hence my suggestion to try and get the drivers door harness out of the door and onto a workbench so you can check it really thoroughly.

I was thinking last night when I replied previously of how this mechanism must work and I don't really know. Understanding it would help in figuring out what's wrong with it. I wondered at first if the window-pop works on vacuum. I'm pretty sure the central locking is vacuum operated, not sure if anything else is. But the windows probably aren't vacuum operated so thinking how else they might work I wondered if they had microswitches in the mechanism to detect when the window was 'popped' so it could do the right thing and move it back when the door shut. If that microswitch has failed it could easily pop the window open as you operate the handle and then just keep going because it does not detect the window entering the popped position.

So after taking out the wiring harness and really checking it I would then start looking at the mechanism itself.

In all my time working on modern cars from the mid-naughties I don't think I ever had to replace a control module, they are very reliable. It's all the bits around it that are susceptible to damage and decay and that is nearly always where the problems are found. Breaks in wires, faulty switches, corrosion.

tim687

Not sure if this will help
https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/e...78/68r/72/045/

Also

Left DCM: http://benz.ehost.tj/215_220/215/web...9-p-4105s.html
Right DCM: http://benz.ehost.tj/215_220/215/web...9-p-4106s.html

Simon Bateson

Many thanks for sharing these. I had not seen them before and clicking on the links within the DCM pages provides really useful information on how the window normalisation operates and the signals needed to make normalisation work. This will help a lot.
This forum is brilliant when members help like this and the earlier postings. I am very grateful for the help.

tim687

A think that I'd like to do very often is to just add "215 site:benz.ehost.tj" to any Google search and most of the times, Google will find the thing that I'd want to see in the documentation.

An installation of WIS comes with these documents too, but searching in WIS isn't that easy compared to Google.

Simon Bateson

Hi, I checked the wiring in the drivers door and confirmed the continuity of the wiring through the hinge, so I can rule out the wiring. I checked each wire from the car side (pulled the slack from the car side of the hinge) and the door side (either terminal plugs or by exposing the wire). The only wires I did not check were the speaker wires and the airbag wires as I know they are working.
The only fault code my Foxwell scanner finds is on the overhead panel for B1 019 Terminal K1 58D has open circuit. I haven’t managed to find out what this is yet, but hopefully I will have a multiplexer soon and can find more clues from Xentry as to why these Windows are not syncing.

Simon Bateson

Been trying to work out what to try next…
The interior light switches were both disconnected when I bought the car. If I connect the switches the dome light comes on and off when you open/close the doors as expected. If the ignition is on and I open a door, the window on that side drops all the way to the bottom and will not move again unless I disconnect and reconnect the battery.i have been fault finding assuming the problem was the windows were not synced but wonder if the interior light system could be a possible root cause problem.

Does anyone recognize a connection of interior light switches and windows dropping and have any suggestions where to look next? I have tried everything I can find on forums other than Xentry and I am looking for a C3 multiplexer cable just now. Any hints would be appreciated.

ejenner

I had a look at the diagrams you got that link for and the handy descriptions you mentioned.

My thought at that point was to see if when you have the door closed and you use the window button to lower the window do you have the same sorts of problems.

The notes on the diagram link say when you lower the window at the front with the door closed the rear window should enter the 'short stroke' position (I was calling it 'popping' earlier... their terminology is 'short stroke').

If you test how the windows perform with the door closed to see if there's any funny stuff going on you can look at or rule out the door switches. Door switches fail often enough on cars of this era so being able to admit or omit them from your troubleshooting would be helpful I'd say.

From reading the notes I'd say with the door closed you should be able to lower a front window with the button to wherever you want it to be. At the same time the corresponding rear window should drop to the 'short stroke' position. When you put the front window all the way back up the rear window should come up as well for them all to be closed.

Knowing the answer to that question will give you a clue for where to go next.

Simon Bateson

Thanks ejenner,
with the doors closed the front windows raise and lower manually without any problem. The rear windows do not enter the short stroke when I lower or raise the front windows.
If I open either front door, the front window on that side fully lowers and the rear window drops by the short stroke. The rear windows do not raise when I close the door, but will raise if I use the window switches for the rear windows. The front windows will then not operate using the switches until I disconnect and reconnect the battery.
I was at the Classic Car Show at the NEC in Birmingham last weekend and had a long chat with the technical guys there. They suggested getting a copy of WIS to double check I have the correct module part numbers for the car. The DCMs are both correct as is the drivers door window switches, but the rear SAM has a different part number. I have just ordered a used SAM with the correct part number.
I tried in the week removing the dome light bulbs to see if that made any difference, but it was the same problem. Today I plan to chase the door switch wires if I can to see if there is any issue with them. I will also try with the dome light unit disconnected to see if that makes a difference.
My Xentry multiplexer should arrive in two weeks and I am looking forward to seeing what that can help me find. The Foxwell scanner only finds one fault on the car related to the dome light unit and an open circuit on terminal KL51D which I believe is linked to the main exterior light switch.
This is an interesting journey and I really appreciate your suggestions.

Simon Bateson

I changed the dome light today and scanned the car with my Foxwell scanner. The previous fault on terminal KL51D has now gone and there are no other faults being recorded from the scan. I couldn’t follow the door switch wiring, but could confirm the rear SAM is registering when the door light switch is triggered.
In a couple of weeks I will have another SAM and my Xentry with C3 multiplexer, so I can try to progress this then.

ejenner

okay, keeping my fingers crossed.

Simon Bateson

Can anyone recommend a supplier for a C3 multiplexer?

I have not had any luck getting a C3 multiplexer So far. First order with ALicar S Store on Aliexpress timed out without them dispatching anything. Money was refunded. My second order with ALiKING Store on Aliexpress was delivered but did not work. Not even the power light comes on when plugged into car’s OBD. OBD works fine and I also tried plugging C3 into another car with no success. ALiKING have been difficult to deal with and spent about 7 hours over two days trying to change laptop settings before accepting C3 didn’t work. Not much progress so far agreeing return and refund.

Simon Bateson

It took a while, but I finally have a working Xentry with C3, but it is not showing any faults with the DCMs.
I do however have fault code B1019 “Terminal KL.58D has -//- or short circuit“ related to the overhead control panel which I suspect is related as my front windows will not normalize and drop all the way down when doors are opened/dome light goes on.
I will open a new post to see if anyone has experience with resolving this B1019 fault code.

ejenner

Good persistence trying to solve this. I've no more to add over what I previously said in my earlier posts. Good luck, hope you solve it eventually. It'll be something silly like a pinched wire somewhere.

Simon Bateson

FIXED! Turns out my car had the EZS module changed by previous owner and it was set to vehicle type R230. I changed it to W215 with DAS and then I was able to normalize the windows and the auto drop/raise is back working on both front doors. Thanks for the earlier help and absolutely I would never have solved this without Xentry/DAS

ejenner

That is absolutely crazy! What a mad problem. No wonder it was so difficult to track it down. Bet you're well pleased.