freestylebiker3

well for me being young with no family, and having my cl65 i think it was a good decision for my part, now everybody has a different opinion of what the "right" car for there life style is for that moment.. when I personally get older and have a family, who knows i might get a S65 or a ML63 and sell my CL65..... But for the life style i have now this cl65 is perfect...and i use to have a BMW m3 and that car fit my life style also


P.S majority of the people in my opinion pick the type of car that fits there life style and bank account size

1995E320Cab

I've also ways loved the look of the W215 CL, when lowered with the right wheels they are non stop head turners.

I was craving some power and these cars are priced right so I got a CL600 with AMG package. PO did AMG break upgrade all around as an added touch.

You can get these cars with low miles for $20K or not much more. Then have the ECU tuned for $1000 - $1500 and you got a rocket in the CL65 league. Same applies to the S600 but you will pay more for a SL600

This will help you to see how great the CL600 is http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

If your good at working on cars they are not as bad as most think, the below is a post by FormulaZR, its long but great info.
Link to post is here https://mbworld.org/forums/cl-class-...new-cl600.html

Post form FormulaZR,
The information is somewhat limited for do-it-yourselfers; however it is out there. Once you have it the info, it's amazing how easy the car is to actually turn a wrench on. For instance, I can change either coil pack on a V12TT car in under 20 minutes - and that's from the time I pop the hood to begin to the time I shut the hood to test drive.

Here's what's super easy to work on in a V12TT car:
1) Coil packs/spark plug changes
2) Replacing any exterior bulb besides the HIDs
3) Intercooler pump replacement
4) Any work involving air intake - not including the turbos

It's actually unreal how user/tech friendly the cars are. Don't get me wrong, they are complex - but once you have the problem diagnosed, the parts replacement isn't too bad for most stuff.

Here's the common issues on W215's:

1) Intercooler pumps - you can usually tell because the car will run great when first started, but get "slower" as it heats up. The IC system on the V12TTs is a closed system, and the IC system on the 55's is part of the engine cooling system.

2) ABC - you've probably heard and know about this, but they have LOTS of ABC problems. Hard to tell before you buy it unless you can see it after it's been sitting for a few hours/days/weeks. The fluid is easy to check, and shouldn't really ever be low. It's a closed system...so where would the fluid go if it wasn't a true leak? Most cars will still bleed down after a few weeks, but should stay up for about a week. Check the damper hose on these for the first signs of leaking that could lead to a system failure.

3) Misfire problems - this is usually related to the coil packs, but can also be spark plugs, the red spark plug insulating boots, the ignition "module", or even throttle body related. Most of the time, coil packs fail in "threes" - what I mean is, the way they are designed 3 cylinders are on the same "circuit" - so say you have a misfire on cylinders 7, 8, and 9 - it's probably a coil pack. It doesn't always work like that, but most of the time it does. Coil packs are about $1200-1300 per side - I can get them from the local M-B dealer for about $900. Also, these cars have 24 spark plugs- don't forget to budget for them.

4) Weird/oddball codes - for whatever reason these cars sometime come up with check engine lights and warning messages for no good reason. I personally think it's because they are so complex - but maybe not. Anyway, a code reader is good to have with these cars. Just reset the code, and if it comes back you know you have a problem - if not, it's the car having a temper tantrum. Many of the codes trigger a version of limp home mode on these cars - when it happens they won't make any boost...so they'll be way down on power. Maybe mine is the only one this has happened to? I once had an "incorrect gear ratio code"...how neat.

5) Transmission issues - the transmission is STONG...real strong. But, one of the connectors sometimes has transmission fluid creep up - which basically triggers a short. It's not a big deal to fix, and is relatively cheap - but will make you think you have bigger problems. Over time, with lots of mods and lots of "abuse" they can wear their clutches down to the point of slipping. ALL transmissions regardless of make with this kind of power that are driven hard (drag strip, etc) will exhibit this kind of wear.

6) PSE/air pump issues - this is the "soft close" and locking function of the car. As you probably know, these cars will shut their own doors if they are "ajar" - if they don't, or if the door locks won't work it's an air pump problem. The lumber/seat functions are actually on a separate "circuit" on the pump.

7) Plastic - this is kind of funny - Mercedes used a lot of very expensive, high-quality materials...except on the plastic. The plastic on these cars is extremely brittle - so be careful what you pry on/against. If you don't glue it, it will spread like a bad windshield crack.

8) Glass - the front glass is kind of soft, so it'll scratch real easily (I hear). Also, the door glass is double layered - as these cars age, the glass will delaminate from deteriorating adhesive. Some bubbles in the windows are ok...lots of bubbles is not good. It'll kind look like a bad tint job - but the bubbles are smaller. Mostly this is a cosmetic issues - but it is around $1500 per side window to replace (at my last price check).

9) Auto window/roof problems - after a battery disconnect, the windows need to be "reset". It's really easy to do; but if it's not done the auto down/open/up/close functions don't work correctly. Usually you can reset them, sometimes it's gone so long that new module is needed. Not a huge deal - but it will also help you figure out how much the owner knows about the car.

10) Lumbar seats - check these, not just for solenoid click but also for inflation. Also, see if they stay up after they inflate. These are known for leaking bladders.

11) SRS System - there is a thin film in the front seats that provides information to the SRS system. Apply pressure/move around in the seats before you buy it to see if any SRS codes trigger.

12) Transmission mount/Motor mounts - If you start the car and it has a weird vibration and/or has a vibration while driving, it could be either the motor mounts or the transmission mount. The transmission mount is cheap, and can be replaced at an M-B dealer for about $155 parts and labor. The motor mounts are hydraulic, and usually some leaking fluid/grease stain type think will indicate motor mount failure. These are much more to replace - in the $1000 plus range I believe.

13) Nav/Comand - 03 cars have a D2B CD based Comand system while 04+ cars have a MOST DVD based Comand. It's not really an "issue", but with the 03 as you travel cross country (or maybe live in a borderline area) you have to switch CDs. That also requires you to purchase updates as a complete set, and keep up with a complete set. With the DVD system, it's a one disc deal. An 03 can't be upgraded to a MOST DVD system without substantial cost. I'd lean towards an 04+.

...that's about all I can think of.


Here's the good news:

The engines and transmissions of these cars are almost bulletproof. I don't know why you'd shoot them, but if you did they'd be fine. Ok, bad joke - but seriously these are incredibly stout cars. I personally feel like the 600 is built "better" than the 55. When the Chrysler guys upgrade their transmissions on the newer 300/Charger/Challenger platform cars, they basically use the parts the 600 comes with stock. The transmission of the 600 is of the same type as the 55, but the 600 has stronger parts in it to deal with the V12's torque.

These cars also do not have limited slip differentials - the use the traction control to give the illusion of limited slip. These can be added; BUT this is a Catch 22. Which the stock rear end, the tires will spin. If you have an LSD and sticky tires a GOOD launch can have you buying parts...just keep this in mind before you set the drag strip on fire.

I have driven the 600 and the 55 - and obviously people have different opinions, but to me the 55 just isn't in the same league as a 600. The 600 has more growing room, is more refined, and is stronger than the 55. The only advantage to the 55 is that it has AMG badges, has V8 growl, and currently has a larger aftermarket following. BUT - the two quickest Mercedes' in the world are both V12s.



As for the brakes - the stock ones are OK. They can adequately stop the car from almost any speed in a "reasonable" distance. But, it's still a 2+ ton car...it doesn't defy physics. Basically, don't get the CL confused with a GT-R and everything will be ok. There are upgrade brake options out there, but I personally never saw the need for better brakes on this car.


RE Exhaust - with the stock turbos, the factory manifolds aren't really a restriction. The small turbos generate SERIOUS heat when they are pushed, and for a manifold upgrade to be effective I think you'd need to have some turbo work done...Speedriven does turbo upgrades. Unless you'd interested in BIG power, I'd leave the exhaust from the turbos forward alone. Downpipe back mods have been proven to gain between 10-30 rwhp (maybe more, but I'm not aware of it).



I thought maybe it'd help to explain what a TCU tune does.

The TCU "limits" torque by telling the ECU to close the throttle before a shift and by telling it to open after a shift. What a TCU tune does is change those "maps". Say the car stock shifts at 5800 rpm and hits 2500 rpm after the shift, maybe the stock TCU backs out of the throttle at 5400 and then doesn't come back into throttle fully until 2800 rpm. Well, a TCU tune might make that 5700 rpm and 2600 rpm. I don't know exact numbers - but that's a general explanation.



Here's everything I know about drag racing a CL600 can be read http://www.**************.com/forum/...ad.php?t=16846


And an acceleration vid of my CL600 can be viewed HERE



Assuming you are purchasing a stock car, this should be the order of your mods (in my opinion).
1) ECU/TCU tune (just get these done together and be done with it)
2) Heat exchanger and possibly intercooler pump upgrade/reservoir (HONESTLY, this should be #1...but nobody listens to that) - these cars already make more boost than they can cool, and when the IAT's spike they dump boost and run as an N/A car.
3) Sticky tires
4) Quaife LSD
5) Exhaust

.

freestylebiker3

lots of great info THANKS

silvercl55

I had a cl55 and now a 07 escalade and a 2012 c250 coupe. The maintenance on that car was insane. I had every problem imaginable. I had a lot of experience just the same as you as I owned it at 2 years old and was selling it at 5 years old. I couldn't sell it for anything. But the funniest thing I see here based on all your posts is you talk about such a great car and it's not expensive to own/maintain but you are supposed to replace pads and rotors when the brakes are do and if you happen to actually do a full brake job as supposed to your buying used rotors!!! maybe i'm wrong here but if the costs were even close to a reg car why wouldn't you buy new brakes and rotors??? The person who has 30-35k to spend on a car doesn't have the money to fix and maintain a 200k car just because it's used and the value is that much doesn't mean parts/service goes down also. Unless you have great credit it is hard to get approved for a about to be 6 year old car with 83,000 miles for $35,000. despite crossing your fingers on your new used car that nothing goes wrong so you don't have to sell your house to fix it. me personally I loved the car and will probably be buying a 2012 in 2-3 years from now but for right now you can get a 2012 c class yes I know it's a "c class" but it's brand new with a 4 year warranty for the same price as that car without any potential headaches. I know the c is not a fair comparison but someone who is looking for a nice mercedes coupe that has the finances to buy a $35,000 car is not gonna buy a 2006 cl65 with 83k on it. The person who would buy it that has the money would most likely be looking for a low mileage one that's pristine not one that gets used brake jobs. Not trying to bash you but like everyone else is trying to put it in perspective for you.

JHouse

I haven't been here in a while and I can't believe this old thread got revived as it predates my purchase. But it gives me the opportunity to address the original question again (I think I might have opined similarly in another thread right after my purchase).

I'm old (58) and I have always been very interested in cars and kept up pretty well. I will say that I determined when I was young that MB's were way too expensive and homely for me to be interested in. So I took them off my list. I didn't think they were a good value. I bet a lot of folks fall into that category, so they would never consider one, especially a used one.

And then there's the AMG "problem." Most folks are scared to death of a "hopped up" car. They assume they are hard to fix and non-standard and that the owner ran the crap out of it.

And then there's the rarity issue. To most folks that's a problem too. And it's not like they are rare, but on the front of every magazine like a Veyron or Ferrari. No one knows they exist. We (which I can say now) are a TINY community.

About 12 or 15 years ago a friend of mine (who I never see) bragged to me that he bought a CL. I had no idea what that was. Didn't even bother to look it up. Saw it once. Looked like a two door MB. No big deal. They all looked alike to me. It was that brand of car I had no interest in. And I was a "car guy."

High mileage to us old farts is 65,000 miles. That's when the government used to dump there fleet cars because the maintenance costs were going to kick in. And just the sound of "V12" has a history of reliability right up there with Jaguar. Turbo-Chargers, same thing.

So when a typical guy gets on Ebay or autotrader, does he look for an MB? Not often.
When he is looking for an MB is he afraid of an AMG? Usually.
When he is look for an AMG, does he shy away from a 12 cylinder? Typically, as it's just "too much."
When he is looking for an AMG V12, does he want high mileage? Not so much.
Who's left?

It would never have crossed my mind to even consider this car. I'm sure way over 99.9% of buyers are the same.

The only reason I would consider an MB is I bought one for my wife on a lark (little CLK) and liked it so much I wanted MORE MB goodness.

The ONLY reason I took the leap of faith and bought my 04 CL55 is a friend talked me into considering it, and told me about all the connections he had to get them worked on cheap (big city) and how reliable his had been, as well as those of all his running buddies. I also had a supercharged Buick once, and I loved the way that SC worked (though it crapped out at about 50K miles). And I still bought an extended warranty, which I could do because the car was unbelievably cheap.

I bought the car for $23K (19% of sticker). 7 model years old. Expired body style, but essentially unidentifiable and sort of timeless to the untrained eye. Perfect condition. 68K miles. I still follow them on autotrader, and it seems that I got a pretty amazing deal, though it was from a dealer. I actually think they have increased about $5K since then.

And nothing has busted yet (though the tire pressure monitors were fixed on warranty right after I purchased it).


To me, it was like they were giving it away. But that probably means I will have to give it away too. To my son.

beauphus

i, for one, am glad that the CL is such a low production car. i have a 216 and i maybe see one per month and i live in the land of the ballers. it is truly a niche car and only built for a special buyer. most people just arent in the market for these cars and that is quite okay with me...

2014CL600

I have loved all of the CL 600 models rexcept of one the 04, worst car EVERY!!!! I have owned since 2000, 2003, 2004, 2006 (still own it) 2011 hated the ones before the revision, (not very pretty with the Volkswagen cartoon fenders) Now I'm buying the CL 65 Designo for 2013. A 7 Month build time. Not a good value but has a very eye popping appeal. Even if your not a fan it has its own cache, and I also have in my collection newer Aston Martin. I like the CL 600 better. Plus I had my 06 re-mapped and am going to have the 2013 engine re-mapped as well/ tuned if you will. I love these cars esp. because when you get inside them there is not on single piece of vinyl to be found. All wood or stone or lacquer finished and leather to beat the band. I am sold, brand loyal. Problems, yes but best to own them in warranty and new. That way you don't have to worry about the headaches of when they become old. Also, if you have to worry about repair costs and gas. Buy a Honda or a cheaper Mercedes if you have to have the brand. Hey most MBZ cars are taxi cabs in Europe. The CL is not. Resale isn't good because the people buying them used cant afford them and the ones buying them new get rid of them before they become a money pit. You can't have it both ways. I also find that most people that own the 600, 65 drive the living hell out of them and then they are for sure money pits. Bad reputation for the suspension to repair. Don't you remember what they used to say about a Rolls Royce. If you have to ask how much it cost you can't afford it. Same with this car. It is expensive but you get what you pay for.

2014CL600

The Speedriven ECU/TCM tune is genus! love the hell out of it and it will blow your socks off. I like the fact the car is so quiet yet will now blow a stock 65's doors off. I wish I could order my new 65 with a 600 exhaust. I like the quiet sound of the 600. might have to spring for a new factory 600 exhaust and put the 65 tips on and have just what I want. Now my thought is do I like the 13 model or the 14 model better??????

driveability

NRL

Same here.

Someone mentioned the 2005/06 CL65 was "SLOW??" and needed 100 more hp.

I said "WTF?"

It's faster then the newer one even without the tune.
I got the tune.

Tell me of a car (in stock form) that will blow it away AND as comfy with 4 seats, for the price I paid for it "$35k"?

Biggest BANG for the Buck!

NOT Gonna find one..other then another..

Maybe another model with a M275 V12TT engine..will do it.

If you think it's slow, then go buy a Nissan GTR or something else for ALOT more..

cjcalo

lol not this thread again!

I personally think the 65 is slow even when tuned. I believe that this car needs 700 rwhp to be fast. I like it for what it what it is, like its comfort and how smooth it drives. I just wish it was faster that's all. It does handle like a big bob sled but that's to be expected from a 4600-4800 pound car.

driveability

LOL,
Slow compaired to what ?
Something like this !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...CgWkAdmlo&NR=1

TMC M5

The CL65 is slow compared to what? Are you sure your car is running right?

Tom

NRL

Fast is a relative term.. 0-60, 0-100 then to 0? 40-100mph? Around curves? Sounds fast, feels fast, etc,etc..

For a heavy luxury Grand Tourer.. it's silent but deadly fast..
And there is always something faster..

Here is a clip of an interesting older spec sheet I found in another thread for AMGs (it is clearly one of the fastest stock AMG, if your comparing Wt/HP or Wt/Avg (HP+TQ)):




ZR1 – 3350 lbs, 620 hp
Power-to-Weight Ratio: ~5.40 lbs/hp

Z06 – 3130 lbs, 505 hp
Power-to-Weight Ratio: ~6.19 lbs/hp

Cadillac CTS-V
Power-to-weight Ratio: ~~ 7.9 lbs/hp to 8.77 lbs/hp

cjcalo

My car is running fine. I trapped 127mph recently in the 1/4 mile and this was the first and only time I ever tracked it. Probably going to be my last time too. My et was a lowly 11.9 due to a bad 60 foot (almost 2.0) and regular street tires. But I reckon that it will do 11.2-11.4 or thereabouts consistently if I raced it more. I dyno'd 565 hp on 100 octane on a dynojet uncorrected. It only has 50k miles and was babied to death before I got it. Don't get me wrong I do like the car. But I sure wish it wasn't so damn slow. Its about as fast as molasses on a cold winter day.

Yes fast is relative what's one person's fast is another person's slow. Therefore, I'm thinking most people here haven't owned fast cars???

TMC M5

My CL65 was the 3rd fastest car I have owned. The other 2 cars had much more in mods done to get that fast and had no where near the luxury features. What cars have you owned that were faster? With just an ECU tune (93 octane) and drag radials my CL65 trapped 124mph and ran 11.209 not bad for a full weight luxury coupe with hydraulic suspension, heated/cooled massage seats, and tons of sound deadening materials, double paned glass and Nappa leather all over the place. if you don't value those features, you should have gotten a different car ( Z06, Viper..etc).

Tom

NRL

Wonder if anyone with a cl65 has gotten the Speedriven Premier V12 package yet? What do you think of that pkg?

Is the turbo upgrade safer then having Methanol spray or nitrous?
I had a soft nitrous single jet fogger on an import once and it was a blast..is that possible to do safely on v12 twin turbos? It might be cheaper for added power but not sure if it's safer or as safe..

Even with more horsepower, the V12s do have a problem getting it to the ground..especially with street tires... Like that Top Gear Episode of that 1000hp v12 TT Brabus..

cjcalo

I ran 127 mph on 100 octane at sea level on sport pilots so its right in the ball park of all the other ecu tuned 65s. I've been in the performance game for a long time so I can't begin to name the cars that I've had that are faster. It ranges from old school camaros, chargers, chevelles, to grand national, a few scarab Z's, to newer LS based cars such as camaro and zo6. I think you are misreading what I am writing. I said I do like the car for its comfort, luxury and ride I just wish it was faster that's all. What's the harm in saying it should be faster? Hell the thing weighs over 4600lbs so in my opinion it should have at least 700 rwhp. Right now I dyno'd 565 rwhp and I believe another 140whp or so would produce a trap speed of mid 130s and to me this would be the ultimate car. So you don't agree with that?

Do you mean the 1000+hp package? What people have to remember is that its one thing to dyno a certain number but if the car can't lay down the power then its counter productive. I see that they build the trans with that package but they still use the stock torque converter. Converters are key to an auto car so if the stock one is at its limit then all that power is useless and in fact its harmful. Plus the breakage factor becomes exponential. Plus for 25k I could buy a higher mileage cl65 and just beat on it without remorse. So to me that package doesn't fit my bill.

I am curious about that 800 hp package and then adding a 5 gallon ic truck tank. From what I see its around 5k or so and it will net around 100 hp over an ecu tune. Not bad its getting closer to the 700 rwhp mark. A guy on here dyno'd 660 rwhp (+104 hp over an ecu tune) but when I see his 1/4 trap its only 126 which is only 1 mph faster than he was on just an ecu tune. So I'm wondering if this is the limit of the stock converter and that extra 100 hp is being eaten up? Just a thought as I'm not really sure about this car. I don't have a lot of experience with it.

Ya I realize that getting power to the ground would be cumbersome that's why I said I'd like 700 rwhp and not any more then that. I still want the car to ride like stock and not have lag associated with bigger turbos.

I would bet that our cars could use a 100 shot of nitrous very safely and still not have to pull much if any timing or use high octane gas. There's going to be a magic nitrous number where you don't have to tweak the tune much if any at all and if I remember correctly it was about a 75-100 shot. But I wouldn't want to put nitrous on my car its too nice for that. That whole nitrous look with bottle mounted, lines, heater, gauges would be ugly in a mint condition cl65. But I would consider doing it on a salvage title high mileage one that's not in as good of condition.

TMC M5

You can say whatever you want. But to call a CL65 "slow as molasses" is pretty ridiculous. The CL65 is a high 11s car (in the right hands) bone stock....right up there with a C6 Z06 (a car that weighs 1,500lbs lighter!). So yes...if you want mid-135s mph trap speeds you are going to have to do more than just a tune. But then again any stock car this side of Bugatti Veyron is going to need more than a tune to do that as well. There are a couple of issued to work around on the CL65. The K24 turbos are fairly small for a 6.0L V12. The transmission and torque converter are also going to have issues with 800rwtq. I would imagine you would need to do hybrid turbos at the very least + the other mods. It would be much easier for you to buy another car and add the interior luxury features....

Tom

cjcalo

I know what it would take to get it to run as fast as I would like but I'm not willing to put those kind of mods on this car. I've already had a luxury car that was much faster than this cl65. I like the car except I think its rather slow. Yes I know its weight related but all this talk about having v12 twin turbos and over 600 hp doesn't mean much if its not fast.

TMC M5

What "luxury car" did you have that was much faster?

radride

In for this answer....

R.K.

zneB-sedecreM

Private jet perhaps? lol

cjcalo

Nothing special I'm not loaded. 1 caddy and 2 lexus'.

I'd like one of those! Maybe in my next life time though.

TMC M5

You are really beginning to sound like a troll with your vague and vapid answers. I would assume that you had a CTS-V if you are throwing a Cadillac out there. I had an '09 Cadillac CTS-V with a 9.55 crank pulley, headers, CAI, tune, aux h/e, etc. So I can tell you with first hand knowledge that a CTS-V and CL65 are on different planets when it comes to "luxury". I would not even call the CTS-V a luxury car at all. It is a sports sedan. Yes, after all those mods, it was marginally faster than my tune only CL65...but I also spent twice the money on mods for the CTS-V to get that improvement.

As far as any Lexus.... you probably would have to spend 5+ times the amount you paid for a tune to get it in the same performance zip code of a CL65....

Tom