Thericker

Lastly variables come into play IE the 591 whp in Q here is now shown to have exhaust mods, & we don't know the correction Factor between ALL the dynos listed here IE should be set to 5, the variance in ambient temps on said dyno days can easily account for 20-30 whp from each model you listed etc etc etc

560 stock is still stout but helluva more belivable vs 591

JumpinJim

Ambient temp stayed pretty tight between 87-88 degrees while the cars were on the dyno as there weren't a whole lot of us and we got done in 2 hours. #s were SAE corrected. Uncorrected M5 was 552.

320 dreamer

maybe 560 stock, competition pkg adds 15 hp and exhaust maybe another 15?

again I'm no expert but i know the car may as well had the plastic on the seats it was so new. nice car just not my style. i know mine did 648 in atl in 70* temps and 612 in oh in 80* temps same day as the m5

Thericker

You're missing the point, there's still a myriad of variables IE basing the dynojets readings you saw on 1 afternoon aren't solid proof (the 65's dynos were on OTHER days etc etc) REAL proof is NOT dyno generated.. It's a nice general comparo when everythings the SAME & ULTIMATELY just a tuning tool..

The 2013 m5 curb weight w/out driver is 4355 lbs... add driver & a bone STOCK 13' m5 is showing a nice trap speed of 120-122 mph at 11.9x (60' could be much better but isn't defining factor of TRUE HP, the Trap speed is) Factor in this Dragtimes record http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-M5-Timeslip-24642.html

Adding driver made this m5 4555 lbs if it had true 560-590 whp it should be trapping much higher like the far more modded examples I already noted that showed 124-128 mph w/dynos between 550-630 whp the Trap speeds tell the story here..

320 dreamer, why are you now back peddling? 1st you said w/out a doubt the m5 you saw dyno was 100% stock owned by an old guy, then you changed that noting it had exhaust work? Also noting it was ONLY for sound & made zero hp. Now you see I posted dif in model yrs of 15 hp & imagine the exhaust work must add 15 hp too since this math would neatly fit your 591 whp claim.. 1st the 15 hp added in 2014 is at the Crank/BHP we're talking wheel hp here, minus drivetrain losses of 15 BHP and it comes to 5 whp if being generous etc forget the exhaust as we/you clearly have no clue what was really done to the m5 you saw dyno that day etc..

Please don't mistake my being curt as angry etc.. I'm just calmly discussing what was posted today etc

kk100

So it looks like it would be a close call between both the 65 and the new M5 if all stock. I better get this eurocharged tune flashed on! as I know the M5 is stock

Thericker

Very close indeed, the much better gearing dct in m5 makes up for the huge deficit in torque vs 65..

Furthermore an ecu tune only 13'-'14 m5 vs a heavily modded 600 model v12tt will take the lead from a 60-130+ mph rollon, actually the higher the speed gets the worse it will get for the 600.. This is reality & progress I love my v12tt but DON'T live in the clouds.. Newer cars are getting way more perf w/much LESS torque, better gearing, less weight, etc etc

320 dreamer

not backpedaling at all. i thought the car was bone stock. after seeing many say its not possible i contacted a few friends who know the owner better than me and asked for clarification. i was told exhaust only and not a catless style (for power) but rather a better sounding than stock. never said no power inc. but I'm sure you know not much power to be had in a system with mufflers and cats. as for the power # i was only guessing . i don't have any need to justify the power he laid down i was there and saw it first hand.
i have emailed the owner and asked him exactly what was done as I'm curious now. if he replies ill post what he has done on here.
i have seen your style of writing for yrs and no need to explain its all good!

Thericker

Lol all good man

320 dreamer

owner of the m5 f10 wrote me back. 2014 with competition package and akropovic exhaust. thats all fellas!

Thericker

Ok did some more research, the Competition pkg adds 15 BHP thru freer flowing exhaust, not ECU.. So adding akropovic exhaust negates any gains to Competition package, IE adding after market exhaust to comp pkg or adding aftermarket exhaust to NON comp packaged f10 M5's will equal very similar rwhp.

Searched Youtube & truely bone stock F10 M5's at reputable tuners EAS etc show 1st dyno STOCK rwhp at a lowest of 498 whp

2nd dyno is with Akrpovic exhaust & AMS down pipes makes 539 whp DynoJet

3rd dyno FULL Eisenmenn exhaust & Groupe M Ram-Air intake makes 535 whp DynoJet

4th dyno Eisenmenn exhaust & Switzer ECU tune actually nearly spot on matched your old man dyno at 592 rwhp on DynoJet.. I saw dozens more in same ranges..

Interestingly 2 mobile DynoJets @ dyno events on Youtube showed laughable STOCK f10 m5's at 560-600+ whp these Dynos are obviously set ridiculously higher to gather more fees by exciting owners to think they have huge hp etc..

I never doubted you saw a DynoJet spit out 591 rwhp for this guys Akropovic exhaust only m5, what I doubted was ACTUAL validity of the DynoJet #'s in question & secondly what actually was done to that m5 as you initially exclaimed it was truly bone stock owned by 70 yr old guy totally uninterested in modding etc..
Your quotes..

Thericker

1st Dyno F10 M5 w/Akropovic exhaust ONLY shows 534 rwhp on DynoJet w/proper settings..
All this data is showing that 591 rwhp mobile dyno was over inflated anywhere between 57-60+ rwhp IE other Dyno's I posted show much lower results w/exhaust only IE 517 whp 523 whp etc etc

2nd Dyno to give you further info on what it really takes to make TRUE 590-600+ on new F10 M5 here's another DynoJet w/Full exhaust, Cat LESS Down Pipes & JB4 Tune @ 616 rwhp.. Basically it takes Full Exhaust & good ECU tune to net 592 rwhp then add Cat less down pipes w/stronger JB4 tune to see 616 rwhp..

Marky

SL65 BS vs M5 F10. Both stock.

V12TTenthusiast

This still isn't a good comparison to what CL65 will do against M5 F10 for a few reasons.

1. SL65 weighs less than CL65 (and and SL65 BS is even lighter than a reg SL65)
2. SL65 BS has different turbos to reg 65 amg
3. This is on a roll not from a dig, the new M5 shines from a dig start but doesn't really haul as it gets further in speed compared to the 65 AMGs

Thericker

Black Series weighs 450-500 lbs less than NORMAL non Blk Ser sl65's & the CL65 is a bit heavier than that.. The Blk Ser has roughly 70 more BHP than the older 65's w/faster AMG shifting program etc etc making the above video pointless in this conversation.

Edit:F10 M5 has horrible 60' capability (from a dig) vs ANY 65 model, the M5 shines from a rollon or as speeds increase (can't believe all incorrect info on here) M5's DCT trans & gearing kills our ancient slush box period

Chk Dragtimes 60' records for new f10 m5 2013-2014 models ALL but (2) highly modded cut a 1.70 & 1.85 60' the 7-8 remaining records all saw 2.00-1.9x 60' vs similar modded 2005-up CL65's which routinely cut 1.5x-1.6x 60'
The huge torque shines here..

RaceHorse

Enough already just run 'em!!!! 20 seconds of WOT would end all this speculating and gestimating. You went from car guys to calculating geeks in less time than a 60-130 pull. (BTW both cars should be around 8 seconds with a tune). Lets just get the OP to post a video of the run and be done with it.

Dr Matt

^^^^ What he said! x 1,000!

Line em up & get video.

Grip Grip

Did someone say the M5 is slow off the line?? Forward to 2:43 of the video if you don't mind. If 0-60's in 3.7 range are slow, please sign me up for fast.

The 1/4 trap is 120, so I'd be picking a roll race if it was me.

Oh, and plus 1,001 to the above. Just race it and get it over with.

Thericker

Agreed.. Though 0-60 on the street has little to do w/what the f10 m5's are doing w/60' down the 1/4.. I already agreed stock for stock down the 1/4 65 vs new m5 would be very close as they show similar traps when stock, but better 60' on cl65 will net better ET's in the 1/4... BUT from a STREET rollon the M5 will eek out the W..

Grip Grip

No offense, but my opinion is regardless of what dragtimes has posted, a fast street 0-60 mph time is going to equate to a fast 60' at the track. The GTR is a prime example. It doesn't fall short on the track but excel on the street.

The best i could get a while back on a stock CL65 was a 3.98, and that was with drag radials. The M5 pulls at least 3 tenths faster using street tires. In a stock versus stock challenge, the M5 will have a 3-4 tenth advantage less than 4 seconds into the race. Sorry, I really like my CL65, but stock vs stock, when both are running street tires, it's all over, and it's over quickly. Hopefully the CL65 owner can negotiate with the M5 owner to not use the launch control. I hope I'm wrong, but typically race math is sound.

By the way, my stock 11.5 run was done on drag radials. If I was on stock tires, the ET would have likely been a little ugly.

My point is, if the trap speeds are the same, the car with the fast "street" 0-60 is going to win. In this case, the M5 has a better 0-60 on the street by several tenths. The math is sound and the strip doesn't change that.

Thericker

None taken.. Thought we were talking drag rads to drag rads, if they both only use stock tires & just STREET race No brainer I TOTALLY agree, m5 will eat it alive in that situation.. No way will stock tires on cl65 do ANY justice for the mighty v12's

Grip Grip

Unless I'm mistaken, they are running stock tires and unmodified cars, but I could have missed something. I'd love for my next mod to be a retrofit launch control. That would be ****.

AMG-Driver

Thericker, Your Posts are getting better and better and much more realistic over the years!

Maybe one day we can discuss also the 1.000 HP Benzes in depth here without getting too serious about different Tuners etc.... LOL.

Just kidding a little bit.

Thericker

lol only took a little over a decade of membership here to beat some sense into my melon...

AMG-Driver

I am also nearly 10 years here and still not sure if MB is the right platform to shoot for 1K HP.

In my opinion it depends on what do you REALLY want from your car, do you want to drive a heavy, comfortable Quality car or are you are shooting for a REAL performance car. Man, when i see some current GT-R Builts that are coming at the moment from AMS / Germany-Austria-Dealers, i can get really jealous what they are capable of. This is real speed. But on the other hand the GT-R it is a very fragile car and not easy to maintain...

We will see, important decisions sometimes take longer time.

Thericker

Couldn't agree more.. MB platform is riddled w/too many gremlins in ecu coding etc etc & from looking at Speedrivens latest website he now lists the big gt30 pkg at 800+ whp tho showed a few other dynos pushing 830-850 whp on MBW here late last year..

Thing is my dream is UNDERGROUND Racing quality hp/tq ie 1000-1500 @ bloody wheels, no e85 tunes no crazy race fuel only just EVIL kidney flattening hp/tq is all... Guess I will eventually move on up when possible to Gallardo family.. Inmop it'll never happen here period seen too many 1k hp promises & upcoming builds (member last on SLS twin turbo build) They ALL vanish like a fart up in the wind..

JRcarts doesnt count (awsum as HELL mind you) but it took e85 tuning to bump it up couple hundered hp & even more tq.. Nothing wrong it's still legit hp & not ghey Nitrous, but e85 isnt available everywhere in CA & you cant fully trust your getting pure e85 @ pump, you need to purchase dedicated e85 race fuel to protect your huge investment etc.. Not to mention you have to add costly revamping of fuel system to run this etc etc..