624 RWHP after all you had done is flippin' horrible and is less than others have made with the stock turbos. My old CL600 made over 525 RWHP on just a tune and everything else totally stock down to the paper filters. Oh man, I would be so pissed!!!!!!!!

It doesn't sound like they did anything other than to adjust for the ECU bleeding boost off when you exceed max ECU boost parameters. With that said, at least it is driveable now and probably won't blow up.

 

Well guess its a good thing it isnt your car. Now thats on a dyno that is a load dyno and simulates a 100MPH head wind and is spinning all 4 wheels. Its making over 100 more HP on MS109. I am not releasing full numbers till its on my normal dyno this weekend. I will keep you posted. One thing for sure is my turbos are spooling faster than anyone elses here.

 

All that matters is that you are happy. What turbo's did you use?

Also, how is a 2WD vehicle spinning all 4 wheels on a dyno?

 

Its a linked dyno. Most loaded 4 wheel dynos can do it to load the cars for road simulations.

Also I am very very happy with how the car is performing now. Its a down right beast and I know its making much more than 624rwhp. Will verify Saturday. The turbos are the same Borg turbos used on Indy cars.

 

That's interesting that SD is using Borg Warner EFR now instead of Garrett.

EFR are well known for their instant response.

 

Been meaning to chip in a while....

I don't have experience of dyno testing, but circumstances have dictated that I'm quite familiar with the insides of the 722.6 and what makes it tick. It's not a very efficient transmission, but it is fairly simple and robust (and relatively easy to rebuild!).

You can't really put a single percentage figure against it's efficiency though. The transmission loss has both fixed and variable/proportional losses, and these losses depend on speed and load, and what gear is being used.

Auto box losses come from the torque convertor, the oil pump, gear and bearing friction, and the clutches, which are often overlooked. When a clutch is opened, there's a small clearance to the friction surfaces - about 6-7 thou on the 722.6. This is filled with ATF, which has a moderate viscosity, and is responsible for significant drag on a supposedly "open" clutch.

The 722.6 has three gear-sets, and one clutch and one brake associated with each. Whatever gear is selected, there are always three clutches or brakes open, and three closed at any time. That's quite a lot of loss, and it's a function of speed, and not load, because the open clutches aren't transmitting any power.

More modern boxes like the ZF 8-speeder have one MORE gear-set, but one LESS clutch/brake. Moreover, it's configured so that each gear is engaged with three clutches closed and just two open. That's clever, and saves a lot of loss (as observed above). I'm jealous over every modern car with one of those ZF boxes.

So a lot of the losses in the 722.6 are load independent, and can be considered as a fixed power loss at each speed.

So if you increase the output of your engine, the transmission loss will not increase in proportion with the power. There will be some element of proportional loss, through the gear-sets for example, but even those can be controlled.

Every gear-set carries all the engine power in an epicyclic gearbox, but the frictional loss will depend on which gears are proving reduction (or overdrive). If all the clutches are closed and the brakes opened, then all the gear-sets will be locked, and the whole transmission assembly will be rotating as one fixed lump, proving a 1:1 gear ratio. This is the condition in fourth gear, which has both the lowest transmission loss, AND the least variation of loss with load.

Every dyno run should be qualified by what gear was used.

Another factor to consider is whether the lock-up clutch in the torque convertor is working. They often fail, and that can cause significant additional loss. There's not very much at high speed admittedly, but it's still a few percent.

Nick

 

They had an issue with their distributor

 

Hi gents,

Have a CL55 and dynoed at 483/535. Although considering the dyno I used consistently read 20whp lower across all platforms I'm guess it's a bit of a heartbreaker. This was also done on stock injectors and one tune. Going back soon for another. But I consider it roughly 500whp and 550wtq but if you're going by the sheet I'm not hurt.

Power Mods at Dyno:
77mm FSP
Kleemann Headers with Downpipes
Secondary Cat and Resonator Delete
Eurocharged TCU and ECU tuning
Killer Chiller and Trunk Tank, meth was not being sprayed on the dyno.

Current mods: 550cc Injectors and 72mm FSP, bigger TB coming soon.

 

Thanks Nick, appreciate your knowledgable insight into the transmissions.

 

So here is what I ended up with:

 

Thanks for sharing. That's still a lot of power.

 

You are making more on pump more than I make on 109. I know when I drive my car on the street on 109 it is incredible compared to the 90 I get at the pump. Should be awesome as a DD no matter what. On your 109 tune it has to be a blast. Hope you get to enjoy that beautiful car for a while with no troubles.

 

It is an absolute blast and with those drag radials its just a dead hook and the car shoots forward like a drag car. Cant wait to take it to the track.
I am still surprised it does not make more power though. I know whatshisface says he makes more TQ with just the better turbo internals.
I need to find a dyno to run mine on. I know Eurochargeds dyno is a loading dyno with wind simulation and all. I want to see what it does on like a standard mustang dyno.

Guess it dont really matter. I am super happy with how well the car accelerates and am blown away by how well it hooks up.

 

I'm totally happy for you man. And I'm not trying to be a D!ck, just sharing information. And I'm more disappointed that these damn cars still have such tuning issues. And that SD over sold it to you and didn't manage any expectations. You personally are a soldier and I admire your tenacity throughout it all.

 

Oh I understand. Its more from frustratuion because I paid to have the worlds most powerful sock bottom end CL65 out there and its such a shame what it makes.

I do know EC dyno will read very low due to the testing style of dyno it is. I also know my normal guys dyno just cant read this car due to how fast the car goes in 4th so I am currently trying to find a dyno that can test the car so I can see its numbers without a simulated 100 mph headwind.

I have played with the boost controller a tad and on race tune it will spike to 20.1psi and tapper back (nearly instantly) to 17.9 and stay at 17.3-17.9 for the whole run. Any more than that and it blows the spark out and registers misfires. I am thinking of pulling the plugs and closing the gap a tad.

 

Congratulations on getting the car back tuned to drive and enjoy. Despite not being the most powerful V12TT, it clearly is well above all other 216/221 power levels. As mentioned Speedriven sold you something they couldn't provide, hopefully they do the right thing considering it sat there for a while and took almost a year to come up very short of the intended gains. I highly doubt if you knew what the end results would have been, you would have still went ahead at the price you paid. In the end its still a great car, and I'm sure you will have lots of fun with it.

Regarding the dyno, is it safe to say, that the spike around 2700 rpms is where the boost control starts to bleed off boost? Also, do you have a TCU tune? It looks like the car doesn't rev over 6k rpm. Do you think re-gapping the plugs will be a problem at other rpms? I hope to see some nice track times out of it, but I realize there is only so much to expect with such a heavy car.

Also, did you make any pulls without the filters? I want to make it to the dyno again to see the difference in power with no filters, iced trunk tank and MS109. That is my race combo, and the car feels so much stronger, but never dynoed for comparison. Filters at 5% loss can contribute to another 30+whp at these power levels.

 

Well Marcin said he will do one last thing to make it right and if he follows through then I really have nothing but good things to say about him. It wasnt him that made the promis, it was someone he fired. After he worked with Jerry at Eurocharged they now have a much better grasp on what it takes to tune the W216 and W221. There is power on the table for sure. To get it out I need to do a stand alone computer but am unwilling to lose my adaptive cruise control. Once they have a controller for it I will make the leap and also have Marcin (as long as he makes good on his promis) do the fully forged engine and then we will have a 1500hp, 2000tq monter here. Big problem is I will lose top speed as it will need the 9" rear end and they dont make small enough gears for them''''yhen again I dont always need to do 240 MPH. lol

 

I think that's just dyno-operator's speak for laymen. The dyno just measures the power at the wheels, and it has to apply a load to do that, which is equivalent to wind resistance.

The 4WD dyno must be a complication though. I think you said you were running with all 4 wheels spinning? That being the case, you're presumably suffering from the additional losses from the rolling front wheels?

Nick

 

Give.Renntech a.call. if there is a company that can get past the ecu limits, it's them.

 

I am sure on a regular dyno we will see larger numbers. I just destroyed a 942/901 Hellcat.

 

Huh? You just out-ran a lighter car with 942 BHP, and you're complaining about your tune?

I bet that put a big, fat smile on your face!

Surely that's job done?

Nick

 

I know of a VIP-Stage Car from R. which went to another Specialist in Germany and they gained 40-50 HP only out of the ECU over the R.tune. Now with a lot of additonal work the car has approx.300 !! additional HP on top.

 

Actually others are complaining of my tune. I simply want to test it on a different dyno to see what its really making. Plus the Hellokitty was a stick and he couldn't shift for crap.

 

As I mentioned in a previous thread Acid ( MSL Birmingham UK ) did a ECU tune. Dyno run 700bhp + 850 lb/ft Torque. Weistec Filters + Shell V-Power Nitro 99 RON Pump

 

My cl65 w215 with extensive mods has previously made 590rwhp and 944ft at the wheels. This is on 93 pump fuel, I have had boost issues with it dropping down in the higher rev range but I'm currently installing billet bovs and will go again next week!