methanol injection?
07-15-2010, 12:45 AM
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2001 clk 430
methanol injection?
Has any one on here done this to there MB? I am looking into doing this and would like to know what others experiences are? any help would be great.
07-18-2010, 10:21 PM
#3
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When you say methanol injection, which application are you referring to? It's typically used in boosted application to cool the intake charge.
07-19-2010, 12:06 AM
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Yes, It can be used to boost a little horse power as well as use lower octane pump gas and still get the benefit of higher octane, The cool part is that this is just windshield fluid.
07-19-2010, 12:22 AM
#5
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07-19-2010, 12:26 AM
#6
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Are you talking about (WMIS) Water Methanol Injection Systems??? or regular MIS?
Last edited by big_mike1979; 07-19-2010 at 12:29 AM.
07-19-2010, 12:32 AM
#7
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i think the water injection kit is to produce more power without having to get race gas & teh methanol injection kit allows you to tune your engine with about the same settings as 100 octane race gas...
i could be wrong but im pretty positive...
i could be wrong but im pretty positive...
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07-19-2010, 12:38 AM
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07-19-2010, 12:40 AM
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2001 clk 430
Yes water methanol injection which is just windshield fluid . From what i can tell there is no down side to this. It would be be a way of getting some pretty cheap HP.
07-19-2010, 12:49 AM
#10
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I havent seen or heard BENZITO owners have installed the kit.
i have seen on Mustang, Vettes, BMW and Porsche but not benz.
good luck
07-19-2010, 12:55 AM
#11
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here i copied and pasted from diff board that i belong too (benzworld.org)....
Let me clarify the function of methanol/water injection.
It is not used to add power.
It is used to allow sustained combustion beyong anti-knock ability of fuel used. In simple words it is an octane booster.
If your current setup in not causing unstable combustion, i.e. detonation, than adding water injection will only cause loss of power. Which is exactly what happened to you.
I have played with meth/water injections many times. The only way it makes power is when more boost is added to the car.
Lets look beyong marketing hype.
To make power we need 3 things - air, fuel and spark.
In simple terms - fill the cylinder with air, add fuel, light it up at the right time and bang we got combustion that drives down the piston.
To make combustion more efficient and increase power, we need more air. Add more fuel to keep A/F ratio around 11-12, find optimum time when to light it up, make sure you have enough energy for that spark to happen and off we go.
Now, this is an overly simplified picture, but I think you are still with me.
Now lets see what happens when we add meth/water mix. Since it is not really combustible what it does is simply takes part of combustion chamber volume.
Now the mixture goes rich, since we have less air now and we loose power.
On turbo engine we can overcome this by simply adding more boost and thus more air. Now playing with fuel and timing we can take advantage of being able to control higher cylinder pressures. After spending a considerable amount of time and effort we are now able to run more boost with low grade gas and make more power.
Is it worth it?
It depends who you ask. For a drag car, that is constantly monitored after every run and allows one to get away from properly building the engine and still run crazy boost - the answer is - Yes.
On the street car, something will eventually fail in water injection circuit and now you have lost your ability to control detonation. Next time you get into it, boom - there go piston rings. For most people simply using race fuel is an easier solution.
On M112/M113 kompressor engines, 55s and 32s, twin spark plugs do a very admirable job of lighting up fuel, even under very high pressures.
I have run 23.5 psi on my C32 with 91 octane, car was putting down mid 380s at the wheels. Going to 104 octane enabled more advance and thus produced low 420s. Trying to use water injection as octane booster we were only able to get into low 400s, no matter how hard we played with fuel and timing. In other words simply going with proper octane fuel was a better solution.
In the end I went back to smaller crank pulley. Kompressor clutch could not handle crazy RPMs it took to be at that boost level.
Let me clarify the function of methanol/water injection.
It is not used to add power.
It is used to allow sustained combustion beyong anti-knock ability of fuel used. In simple words it is an octane booster.
If your current setup in not causing unstable combustion, i.e. detonation, than adding water injection will only cause loss of power. Which is exactly what happened to you.
I have played with meth/water injections many times. The only way it makes power is when more boost is added to the car.
Lets look beyong marketing hype.
To make power we need 3 things - air, fuel and spark.
In simple terms - fill the cylinder with air, add fuel, light it up at the right time and bang we got combustion that drives down the piston.
To make combustion more efficient and increase power, we need more air. Add more fuel to keep A/F ratio around 11-12, find optimum time when to light it up, make sure you have enough energy for that spark to happen and off we go.
Now, this is an overly simplified picture, but I think you are still with me.
Now lets see what happens when we add meth/water mix. Since it is not really combustible what it does is simply takes part of combustion chamber volume.
Now the mixture goes rich, since we have less air now and we loose power.
On turbo engine we can overcome this by simply adding more boost and thus more air. Now playing with fuel and timing we can take advantage of being able to control higher cylinder pressures. After spending a considerable amount of time and effort we are now able to run more boost with low grade gas and make more power.
Is it worth it?
It depends who you ask. For a drag car, that is constantly monitored after every run and allows one to get away from properly building the engine and still run crazy boost - the answer is - Yes.
On the street car, something will eventually fail in water injection circuit and now you have lost your ability to control detonation. Next time you get into it, boom - there go piston rings. For most people simply using race fuel is an easier solution.
On M112/M113 kompressor engines, 55s and 32s, twin spark plugs do a very admirable job of lighting up fuel, even under very high pressures.
I have run 23.5 psi on my C32 with 91 octane, car was putting down mid 380s at the wheels. Going to 104 octane enabled more advance and thus produced low 420s. Trying to use water injection as octane booster we were only able to get into low 400s, no matter how hard we played with fuel and timing. In other words simply going with proper octane fuel was a better solution.
In the end I went back to smaller crank pulley. Kompressor clutch could not handle crazy RPMs it took to be at that boost level.
07-19-2010, 01:37 AM
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This is the info i was looking for. there are a lot of people here talking about it telling me i should do this, I just didn't really know if anyone had done this to a benz and what the opinions were thanks.
07-19-2010, 12:40 PM
#13
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07-19-2010, 01:00 PM
#15
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07-19-2010, 01:15 PM
#17
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07-19-2010, 01:38 PM
#18
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Lots of info available out there: http://www.coolingmist.com/ http://www.alcohol-injection.com/ http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/index.html
At first I thought this would be the poor man's nitrous oxide, but I don't think so now.
The post from BigMike has the most sensible information: "For a drag car, that is constantly monitored after every run and allows one to get away from properly building the engine and still run crazy boost - the answer is - Yes.
On the street car, something will eventually fail in water injection circuit and now you have lost your ability to control detonation. Next time you get into it, boom - there go piston rings. For most people simply using race fuel is an easier solution." The operative word here being BOOM.
At first I thought this would be the poor man's nitrous oxide, but I don't think so now.
The post from BigMike has the most sensible information: "For a drag car, that is constantly monitored after every run and allows one to get away from properly building the engine and still run crazy boost - the answer is - Yes.
On the street car, something will eventually fail in water injection circuit and now you have lost your ability to control detonation. Next time you get into it, boom - there go piston rings. For most people simply using race fuel is an easier solution." The operative word here being BOOM.
07-19-2010, 01:49 PM
#19
MBWorld Fanatic!
Lots of info available out there: http://www.coolingmist.com/ http://www.alcohol-injection.com/ http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/index.html
At first I thought this would be the poor man's nitrous oxide, but I don't think so now.
The post from BigMike has the most sensible information: "For a drag car, that is constantly monitored after every run and allows one to get away from properly building the engine and still run crazy boost - the answer is - Yes.
On the street car, something will eventually fail in water injection circuit and now you have lost your ability to control detonation. Next time you get into it, boom - there go piston rings. For most people simply using race fuel is an easier solution." The operative word here being BOOM.
At first I thought this would be the poor man's nitrous oxide, but I don't think so now.
The post from BigMike has the most sensible information: "For a drag car, that is constantly monitored after every run and allows one to get away from properly building the engine and still run crazy boost - the answer is - Yes.
On the street car, something will eventually fail in water injection circuit and now you have lost your ability to control detonation. Next time you get into it, boom - there go piston rings. For most people simply using race fuel is an easier solution." The operative word here being BOOM.
Maybe the kit is cheap but he needs to modify other things and benz parts are expensive
07-19-2010, 03:57 PM
#20
MBWorld Fanatic!
Lots of info available out there: http://www.coolingmist.com/ http://www.alcohol-injection.com/ http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/index.html
At first I thought this would be the poor man's nitrous oxide, but I don't think so now.
The post from BigMike has the most sensible information: "For a drag car, that is constantly monitored after every run and allows one to get away from properly building the engine and still run crazy boost - the answer is - Yes.
On the street car, something will eventually fail in water injection circuit and now you have lost your ability to control detonation. Next time you get into it, boom - there go piston rings. For most people simply using race fuel is an easier solution." The operative word here being BOOM.
At first I thought this would be the poor man's nitrous oxide, but I don't think so now.
The post from BigMike has the most sensible information: "For a drag car, that is constantly monitored after every run and allows one to get away from properly building the engine and still run crazy boost - the answer is - Yes.
On the street car, something will eventually fail in water injection circuit and now you have lost your ability to control detonation. Next time you get into it, boom - there go piston rings. For most people simply using race fuel is an easier solution." The operative word here being BOOM.
07-28-2010, 11:44 PM
#22
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07-29-2010, 12:14 AM
#24
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