Nebraska99

No offense to anyone but this board is dead. Does anyone know of more active sites?

Thank You.

david_101

Nebraska99,

the board is dead because the car is uninspiring.

when people are uninspired, there is a dearth of lively chat.

in this case, no inspiring chat whatsoever.

hence, a "dead" board. (GO MB!)

(please understand that i am not disparaging all the posters who place pleasant commentary and pertinent questions.)

and to extrapolate...

if the underlying reason for and cause of (lively) chat is nonexistent, then one could assume the same result on other boards.

conclusion: one shouldn't strain oneself while looking for vibrant CLK-related chat.

when the 208 arrived, it was new and different and exciting.

the 209 marks a return to the generic "been there and done that" body looking like so many wanna-be competitiors, such as volvo, honda/acura, and the like.

no matter the technological innovations, the car hardly thrills the eyes.

and, pitifully, competitors have been catching up on the tech side.

okay, that's more than $.02, but i'm feeling rich today. :-) not to mention, the GF's been away and i'm beating on this keyboard like... LOL

best wishes,
david

VAHAGN MB

david 101...i think you have issues and you are blind.. THe 209 blows circles around the dull looking older model,,, open your eyes home boy,

vraa

Women aren't the best at using computers and accessing this board.

IIRC mbworld itself started out as a CLK forum a long time ago.

david_101

hyepower,

the last time -- which wasn't long ago -- i had a thorough eye exam performed by a a very experienced and reputable opthamologist, the result was 20-15 to 20-20 vision

accordingly, i'm not quite blind.

and already in my third 208 CLK -- a 2002 55 purchased in 2003 instead of a 209 55 -- i'm more than familiar with CLKs, their every curve, tick, and trouble.

as for your charge that i have "issues," it's very easy to accuse generally, attempt to elicit a defensive response, then sit back and grin.

if you were looking for a cogent response, then being specific about my "issues" would have been helpful.

if you'd like a thoughtful response, then perhaps you could rephrase your accusation in such a way that it could be addressed systematically.

(fyi, my only serious issue at this moment is that my GF is out of town. so i figured i'd play the MB boards, maybe add a little life to the 209ers. guess it worked... besides, that's more prudent than visiting local spots, where i'd undoubtedly find some sort of fodder for relationship trouble.)

oh, almost forgot to mention that the GF's got a 208 and her dad just ditched his for a bimmer sedan...because he disliked the 209 as well and the BMW 6 wasn't yet available. (his eyes require only reading glasses.)

btw, which car(s) do you have?

david_101

vraa,

the image you posted...

is that your garage or a showroom?

the light blue 209 (320?) in the foreground is a decent color on the car. and i've been told it's a good choice for the southern states, especially in shore areas.

up north, i'd go for the pewter.

vraa

My garage No, it's the Mercedes Benz of Sugarland dealer showroom. I loiter around there a lot of the time.

It is a 320, and it had a similair interior color also. Very very feminine. Maybe too much, my neighbor (woman) is in the market for a new car to replace her W220 and she looked at this, then at the 209 Cab on the other side, and said the cab (silver) was a better choice.

For me, it's black all the way.

david_101

vraa,

yup, my GF locked onto that bluish color.

that's for when she parts from her 208, and if she gets a 209.

the only thing about MB that's keeping her attention is the driver dynamic seating.

last time i visited the site, i didn't find that option.

do you know if it's still available. (i'd contact my dealer, but i wouldn't want to tease them. ;-)

btw, loitering around a favorite auto dealership isn't such a bad habit.

you just have to find a friendly one, with beverages and a big inventory. like MB west chester (pa). great dealership. can't say enough good, from 5 starbuck's blends simulataneously all day to juices to water to snacks, no-pressure sales and a BIG inventory.

i miss that place.

david

Eich

Funny, that was always my opinion of the out-dated looking W208's. I never considered a CLK until the W209 came out. To each his own I guess.

True unfortunately, including reliability and value for your money.

david_101

Eich,

how right you are...

well, the GF's back in town, which means the rest of you likely will be spared my rebukes of MB.

at least for a while.

all the best, david.

Predator

well everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think david is being a little overly critical on the w209. I guess he needs to feel better about his purchase of the older w208.
I think the minority likes the w208 better than the w209. I mean if the w208 was better performer and a better looking car, wouldn't MB kept the car the way it was? But with time the w208 became played out and dated. What was once a bright star is no longer.
Whenever I see a w208 it reminds me of an old car. Im sure the general public will have the same opinions of the w208 being a yesterdays car.
But I guess what matter is what the driver thinks and whatever makes him/her happy. I personally prefer the w209 because its a better car in terms of performance and appearance. The General public prefers the w209 vs w208, if that wasn't the case the MB dealers would be selling w208s. Also the market value reflects whats in demand and the w209 costs more than the w208.

david_101

Predator,

i usually avoid commenting upon personal opinion because it is just that -- personal -- and therefore should enjoy priveleged status. we're all entitled to that to the extent that we don't impose those views upon others...unless of course we're policymakers, such as elected officials.

however, when a post is personally directed psychobabble, when it's riddled with inaccuracies upon which are based false conclusions, then i don't mind becoming just a bit personal.

1a. i purchased my third CLK -- a 2002 55 -- during 2003 after seeing, driving, reading about, and listening to MBers re. the 209. you can believe that even after driving a mgr's 209 55, that i do not regret passing over the 209 for the last of the 208s.

1b. please consider whether the inverse statement may be true: that you are disparaging me for my opinion simply to justify your own purchase of the 209.

2a. almost all mfrs periodically update their products for strategic purposes based upon voluminous marketing studies.

2b. MB would not necessarily have retained the 208 "just because." in fact, serious 209 product planning probably probably begun very shortly after the 208 release.

2c. all mfrs have made mistakes...which is not to say that the 209 was a mistake.

3a. you're "sure the general public will have the same opinions of the w208 being a yesterdays car."

3b. what does "yesterdays [sic] car" mean? and upon what empirical and/or anecdotal evidence do you base your conclusion?

4a. "The General public prefers the w209 vs w208, if that wasn't the case the MB dealers would be selling w208s."

4b. MB dealers sell what MB corporate manufactures and incentifies.

4c. and fyi, they continue to sell 208s...as used cars.

5a. market value... i won't even bother to address that one.

Predator, about the only sensible comments you made are:
"Whenever I see a w208 it reminds me of an old car," and "But I guess what matter is what the driver thinks and whatever makes him/her happy," and "I personally prefer the w209..."

those are your personal opinions, to which you have an unmitigiated, unencumbered right and about which you're entitled to voice your thoughts.

if you ever wish to chat without veiling personal attacks and inferences, then i'd be happy to do so.

hope you enjoy your 209, as i hope we all enjoy our CLKs, whatever ilk they may be.

david

david_101

Predator,

looking over your posting once again, i noticed that you began with, "well everyone is entitled to their opinion."

after stating that, you disparaged me for mine.

conclusion: whatever.

Eich

Making comments like these on a W209 board, what did you expect, David? A welcome mat ?


I didn't see anything in Predator's message that would qualify as a personal attack.

It's also very easy for you to visit another board, tell us why you feel the W209 is not worthy of lively discussion, then sit back and grin at the responses you get - acting surprised when someone appears defensive.

You entered into a thread that asked for recommendations on other CLK sites but only offered your personal opinion of why you believe the W209 hardly deserves any message board traffic. While your writing style might impress your English professor, it comes off as "holier than thou" in this context and has a condescending tone about it.

It's my opinion that this thread would have better off, had you not aired your opinion of the W209. The original author never asked why the activity was low on this site and quite honestly, none of us really care why you chose the W208.

david_101

Eich,

very sorry if i've offended you while responding to Predator.

perhaps you're right that i shouldn't have ventured onto 209 turf...that i shouldn't have attempted to climb above my station.

as for making personal attacks, i suspect you know full well which of Predator's comments qualified.

likewise, i suspect you know which of yours qualify. accordingly, i won't bother to address them.

however, i would've preferred to hear back from Predator, considering that's at whom i'd levelled my response.

anyway, echoing what i've already written many times before, i hope you enjoy your car(s) as i enjoy mine.

all the best, david.

reserved

I thought we were only going to have to suffer through this while your GF was away???????????????

david_101

reserved,

true and fair, the GF's back in town and i'll relent.

one exception: personal attacks.

please do note that i've been relatively civil and courteous throughout. ;-)

take care, david.

Eich

I will grant you that David. A refreshing change from some of the exchanges I've seen on other forums - as well as some I've seen on this one.

I think your threshold for what is considered a personal attack is really low ! But that's just my opinion

david_101

eich,

thank you for the acknowledgement, and i appreciate your opinion.

re: personal attacks, i believe it's sort of like the aristotlean-socratic "chariness" -- a chair may take many different forms, but we generally know one when we see it -- we know them when we see them.

catch you later, david.

Predator

David,

It seems as though you took my comments way to personally. I wasn't trying to offend you at all. I was trying to explain that the negative opinions about the w209 are in the minority and that the majority of people have positive opinions about the w209.
While I might be presumptious in stating such a fact, I don't have time or the resources to conduct a nationwide study about who likes the w208 better than w209.
I was trying to back up my statement that the general public prefers the w209 vs. w208 by using some obvious facts(ie sales of w208 vs w209 for 2003 and 2004).
I feel bad that I offended you but I never personally offended you nor had I intended to offend you. I was merely stating the obvious(ie w208 dated so therefore new design (w209) implemented, sales, and market value).
Instead of having gripes about my comments and using me as a scapegoat; maybe you should be angry at the general public because they, ultimately are the ones who decide what is more favorable.
I am glad you agree with me that everyone is entitled to their opinions. While the preference of looks of a car are in the eye of the beholder. I am sure you can agree with me on one major factor in determining which car is better, and that is performance.
W208 vs W209, comparing apples to apples, the w209 has the slight edge in performance. I been to the w208 board and your board members seem to agree that the w209 is the better performer.

"the board is dead because the car is uninspiring.

the 209 marks a return to the generic "been there and done that" body looking like so many wanna-be competitiors, such as volvo, honda/acura, and the like.

no matter the technological innovations, the car hardly thrills the eyes.

and, pitifully, competitors have been catching up on the tech side."

Now if you want to talk about offensive and personal attack, I think your comments are just that. But I guess you are entitled to your opinions and this is what these forums are about.

I am glad to see that you don't have any regrets on your choice. I hope you enjoy your car for many years to come.

sjclk

Great posts guys. This board isn't dead. Why this post alone has gotten over 440 views. Your opinions have been helpful to those of us out there that may not post much but yet like to hear what people who own the car generally think about it in both past and present models. After all the only opinion that matters when I, or anybody, makes a purchase is my opinion and mine alone. In the end everyone has to accept the responsility and live with their decision/choice. But its nice to hear other opinions before I do finalize my own.

Everyones taste do differ but then thats what makes this great. It is the fact that people opinions differ but yet come together to form this board and make it lively. Yes it would be nice if more people would post more often but then I am guilty of that myself. I 'll try and change that in the future and not lurk as much.

sjclk.

david_101

TO ALL: this amounts to academic argumentation, not emotional diatribe or flaming or anything other than debate.

Predator,

i certainly cast a pall over the car and, by inference, those behind the approvals.

but i certainly don't see how my comments you pulled and placed near the bottom of your post qualify as "personal attack" phraseology, and i wish you hadn't taken it that way.

you aren't a scapegoat; you named and commented about me, to which i responded in kind.

please understand that i didn't comment about a screen name without being mentioned first. neither did i suggest underlying "issues" -- which is a loaded comment decipherable in no favorable way.

you didn't offend me; you triggered me by attempting first to discredit me and second to factualize conjecture to support your views.

a few Qs:

how have you determined that the minority view of the 209 is negative? (every single person -- admittedly they can be counted on two hands -- i've met who's gotten the car has made lukewarm comments at best. one, a woman i met at a marina with her 209, indicted it when she said she would trade it as soon as she had a moment because she was so disappointed. MBers have told me point blank that the car isn't moving as they'd hoped because the buyer profile was mistargeted. that's my anecdotal evidence; i do not have empirical evidence.)

what "fact(s)" are you stating?

how does the general public decide? (as with the disastrous implementation of "new coke," the backlash to which forced the company to reintroduce "old coke" and slowly, quietly remove its intended successor from the market? unfortunately the capital-intensive auto manufacturing process won't permit such a retraction as easily as pouring different ingredients down calibrated chutes. instead, the mfrs will "pull" product through the pipe via soft tactics.)

a major factor in determining a better car? (it's an attribute-mix that counts toward targeting groups and individuals.)

2003 and 2004 sales comparisons? (they state the obvious de facto case: 209s MUST have better aggregate relative numbers in both those years (and 2004 is not nearly over). how does that bolster the statement you referred to?)

Predator, i haven't anything against you. absolutely nothing. but i do take issue with your characterizations of your comments. nothing more, nothing less. so i respond by deconstructing and rebutting. standard fare and all in a day's work. your opinions are yours and in my book are sacred, on hallowed intellectual ground. i do not attempt to persuade otherwise.

i do enjoy my car, and am certain from your statements that you enjoy yours.

case closed? david

david_101

sjclk,

a hearty amen to all you wrote.

david

lucycat

"I respond by deconstructing and rebutting. standard fare and all in a day's work"

David -- ease up man. You're perseverating, and you spend too much time deconstructing and reading in hidden meanings to simple statements!
Count to 10 or something before you let it all spew out.
And don't be so defensive, because if you do this with your GF, it's no wonder she goes away.
PEACE!
(P.S. I have a 209, and I think you have some valid points about the styling)

Nebraska99

..with my original post??

Damn David, stop using all those big words Im getting dizzy.