calboy

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4854302/
This article (well the graph really, this article is about hyundai) shows mercedes just lagging one place behind toyota and 10th overall in reliability for 2004. Graph in lower left corner. Surprising considering there are so many more things that can go wrong in a mercedes and the pickiness of mercedes customers. I wonder what the test measures as a problem. Does the so called normal ticking noise count or what about deforming seat leather after so many uses? By the way don't you think that Sonata looks like a E class/Jaguar?

GDawgC220

i think last year they called the excessive brake dust a reliability/quality problem when they were reviewing car makers.

good to see MB coming back

ldangeli

There was another thread on here that had last years CLK listed next to last out of hundreds of cars, based on seperate diferent scoring categories.

BudC

I still say that 90 day surveys are meaningless. What matters is 1-3 year and 3-5 year surveys. Design problems show up in the shorter one and long term reliability issues show up in the longer one.

The 90 day survey is as much about dealer service and support or about the kind of person buying the car as it is about anything else.

It's kind of like these tests you see where they spend most of their time talking about cup holders and nothing about engineering advancements, safety, real quality or other important aspects of the product.

ldangeli

The one I am talking about wasn't a 90 day, it was from the 208's birth. Its on this forum, somewhere.

Carbon9

There are so many different polls, many are meaningless and only ad driven.

What really matters is resale value. Much can be measured by that one statistic.

I remember some add (Hyundai?) where the smug new Hyundai owner was playing tennis with a (toyota?) owner. The warranty and maintenace and the lower INITIAL price of the Hyundai was plugged as an intelligent reason to buy the Hyundai and made the Toyota?) owner feel inferior.

What about trade in time? or Resale???? Who will be smug, then?

I am amazed at the complexity of my car, almost each day. It's been amazing, not perfect, but amazing.

ldangeli

Trade in time or resale? Are you kidding? I purchased my 02 430 brand new, and it its worth less than half of what I paid for it, and it is 2 years old. Trade in / resale value does not apply to any car.

david_101

Carbon9,

i'm sorry, but i must agree with ldangeli.

take this example:
purchase any MB convertible in the north. it'd fetch a higher price sold used when in S FL rather than N Dakota.

edmunds and KBB can make regional adjustments.

does that imply different qualities for a particular vehicle when it's located in different regions?

or does it imply different relative demand for a particular vehicle when in different regions?

i suspect the latter is the case.

david

ldangeli

Exactly. Wow, I am surprised that someone agreed with me.. I have been trying to get rid of this car, before the value goes way down. I love the car, but if I don't get rid of it soon, I will take a bath on it. Why is that? Are we not as in demand of these vehicles depending on what part of the country you are in, or has the value and quality of these cars gone down that much? I just don't get it. Any thoughts?

david_101

ldangeli,

not being privy to MB internal data, i cannot conclude anything.

however, one cannot discount the effect that the successor car -- the 209 -- has had.

also, i suspect that economic conditions and competition have much to do with the pricing changes many of us are suffering.

try this little theory of mine:

MB's quality and reliability issues affect those who already have the cars.
those with higher-priced cars may indeed be those who are most negatively affected by those issues.
brand strength is very important to drawing-in first-time buyers.
first-time buyers most often do not purchase higher-priced MB models.

hypothesis:
initially higher-priced MB models suffer more in resale than lower-priced MB models.

that's just a guess. please feel free to tell me where i'm mistaken.

all the best,
david