Why?
05-28-2007, 09:21 PM
#51
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[QUOTE=neilbo75;2234800]
i do understand the car, its what a regular clk63 coupe should be, thats basically what it is. just put non adjustable suspension on it and its a perfect rival to an m3. the slk black was a real specialized car b/c it got rid of the conv. top for weight and rigidy and came with bucket seats. they actually did things to improve its performance from a weight/body perspective. but since you guys are all in denial, ill drop it.
clk63 bs
why is the clk black series so expensive?
basically mb built a real rival to the m3 and audi rs4 (this time). it has NOTHING extraordinary on it, cf interior, the others have (option), widebody... check, better handling than the regular models..check, i believe none of them "improve" on the weight of the regular model, the transmission is regular 5spd auto with quicker shifts, there is nothing special about it, you can effectively take a clk63coupe (or even vert w/ a hardtop) and build yourself a clk63 black. i think they are just milking the clk dtm for what its worth, that car was a real "specialty car". the only thing that sets the BS (
) apart from the others is price and a few cf exterior bits, the others go through all the same processes in becomeming "specialty" cars of their respectable makers.
before you guys say power, m6 (has a cf roof too and less $)
Building one of these babies in the backyard would be easier said than done. To start, those are nine inch rims up front. Impossilbe to just bolt that on. Once you start rebuilding the fenders you quickly get into styling and quality issues. The suspension is all different as well. Yes, you could do the coil-overs yourself, but doing it right is neither cheap nor easy. AMG has also provided auxilliary coolers for, IIRC, the engine and power steering oil. And let's not forget true forged wheels all around. That alone justfies a healthy bump. Uprated brakes are also an expensive mod for the DIYer.
The price for all this is high, but that's because the price for a base CLK63 is already high compared to its competitors. The base car gives you a SOTA engine and a seven (not 5) speed transmisison. But no manual shifter option and less power per ton than, say, a Z06 means that that Black Clack is going to be a hard sell. The graphite bits are pure art. But time will tell if they can even move 350 of them, despite the pent up demand created by not importing the regular 63 coupe. Aside from the price, too many people like you just don't understand this car.
basically mb built a real rival to the m3 and audi rs4 (this time). it has NOTHING extraordinary on it, cf interior, the others have (option), widebody... check, better handling than the regular models..check, i believe none of them "improve" on the weight of the regular model, the transmission is regular 5spd auto with quicker shifts, there is nothing special about it, you can effectively take a clk63coupe (or even vert w/ a hardtop) and build yourself a clk63 black. i think they are just milking the clk dtm for what its worth, that car was a real "specialty car". the only thing that sets the BS (
) apart from the others is price and a few cf exterior bits, the others go through all the same processes in becomeming "specialty" cars of their respectable makers.before you guys say power, m6 (has a cf roof too and less $)
Building one of these babies in the backyard would be easier said than done. To start, those are nine inch rims up front. Impossilbe to just bolt that on. Once you start rebuilding the fenders you quickly get into styling and quality issues. The suspension is all different as well. Yes, you could do the coil-overs yourself, but doing it right is neither cheap nor easy. AMG has also provided auxilliary coolers for, IIRC, the engine and power steering oil. And let's not forget true forged wheels all around. That alone justfies a healthy bump. Uprated brakes are also an expensive mod for the DIYer.
The price for all this is high, but that's because the price for a base CLK63 is already high compared to its competitors. The base car gives you a SOTA engine and a seven (not 5) speed transmisison. But no manual shifter option and less power per ton than, say, a Z06 means that that Black Clack is going to be a hard sell. The graphite bits are pure art. But time will tell if they can even move 350 of them, despite the pent up demand created by not importing the regular 63 coupe. Aside from the price, too many people like you just don't understand this car.
clk63 bs
05-28-2007, 10:03 PM
#52
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'08 M5, '10 Land Cruiser
Where's the relevance in the fact Vadim's 24 years-old? He seems to have enough long-term experience in performance cars to warrant a point of view without people resorting to personal attacks.
Anyway, by way of a pricing comparison. The E46 M3 upon its european release was £38,500 and rose swiftly to £42k due to its popularity. When the CSL was released two years later, it had a list of £57k so it didn't sell. You could walk into any BMW dealer and order one with a £5k discount. I know this as my friend did exactly that. Now the CSL was a car that gained universal approval but was available for only £10k more than the non-limited edition regular M3. As for the used prices, BMW.co.uk shows they are available for mid-20s with very little on the clock.
Anyway, by way of a pricing comparison. The E46 M3 upon its european release was £38,500 and rose swiftly to £42k due to its popularity. When the CSL was released two years later, it had a list of £57k so it didn't sell. You could walk into any BMW dealer and order one with a £5k discount. I know this as my friend did exactly that. Now the CSL was a car that gained universal approval but was available for only £10k more than the non-limited edition regular M3. As for the used prices, BMW.co.uk shows they are available for mid-20s with very little on the clock.
05-28-2007, 10:20 PM
#53
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05-28-2007, 11:23 PM
#54
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2007 Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano Silverstone F1
i know all the changes you list, my whole point is that most of them, all the mechanical ones, infact, should already come stock on all AMG cars, like they do on m cars and rs cars. the coolers, ducts etc... just the suspension and body (widebody and cf parts) are special. imo 
you own a gt3 rs 
you know how different it is from a regular 997 and even a gt3, its an entirely different body shell, the fuel tank is moved etc.... there are many weight saving measures.....
there are no such "extreme" steps taken in converting a regular clk into a black series, thats my whole point. they have to charge that much for it becuase the regular clk63 is alredy over priced, thats the only logical explanation i guess.
it sure looks sick as **** though , congrats, looks amazing in white w/ the contrasting carbon fiber
you own a gt3 rs
you know how different it is from a regular 997 and even a gt3, its an entirely different body shell, the fuel tank is moved etc.... there are many weight saving measures.....
there are no such "extreme" steps taken in converting a regular clk into a black series, thats my whole point. they have to charge that much for it becuase the regular clk63 is alredy over priced, thats the only logical explanation i guess.
it sure looks sick as **** though , congrats, looks amazing in white w/ the contrasting carbon fiber
I'm hoping the White will really make all the carbon fiber and the 63 AMG look wild and crazy! I had a 997 Turbo last Fall and traded it and my 05 Ford GT on the SLR. Even though the Turbo was faster than hell, 
I still like the GT3RS better because she's more outrageous looking and almost as fast.... BUT probably better sounding. 
Hey..... your profile:
Biography:
i own mulholland dr.
Location:
LA CA
Interests:
murdering "supercars" in the canyons and twisties
Vehicle I drive:
07 997S stick with HRE C22, 03 clk55 with HRE 547R(GONE)
Is this because of your driving skills or because of a tricked out car you drive?
AND..... is that you in any of those vids speeding up the twisties at night?
Bad boy! If so.... your contradicting yourself about only doing it on the track. I'm not getting personal.... just friendly busting your '***'!
Mags
05-29-2007, 06:02 AM
#55
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Thank you Vadim! I'm hoping the White will really make all the carbon fiber and the 63 AMG look wild and crazy! I had a 997 Turbo last Fall and traded it and my 05 Ford GT on the SLR. Even though the Turbo was faster than hell, I still like the GT3RS better because she's more outrageous looking and almost as fast.... BUT probably better sounding.
Hey..... your profile:
Biography:
i own mulholland dr.
Location:
LA CA
Interests:
murdering "supercars" in the canyons and twisties
Vehicle I drive:
07 997S stick with HRE C22, 03 clk55 with HRE 547R(GONE)
Is this because of your driving skills or because of a tricked out car you drive?
AND..... is that you in any of those vids speeding up the twisties at night? Bad boy! If so.... your contradicting yourself about only doing it on the track.
I'm not getting personal.... just friendly busting your '***'! Mags
I'm hoping the White will really make all the carbon fiber and the 63 AMG look wild and crazy! I had a 997 Turbo last Fall and traded it and my 05 Ford GT on the SLR. Even though the Turbo was faster than hell, I still like the GT3RS better because she's more outrageous looking and almost as fast.... BUT probably better sounding. Hey..... your profile:
Biography:
i own mulholland dr.
Location:
LA CA
Interests:
murdering "supercars" in the canyons and twisties
Vehicle I drive:
07 997S stick with HRE C22, 03 clk55 with HRE 547R(GONE)
Is this because of your driving skills or because of a tricked out car you drive?
AND..... is that you in any of those vids speeding up the twisties at night?
Bad boy! If so.... your contradicting yourself about only doing it on the track. I'm not getting personal.... just friendly busting your '***'!
Magsive seen pics of a white black series, looks nuts, best looking color, imo. it contrasts very well with the cf. i dunno if youre into moding or not, but i would also do gunmetal wheels (to match the cf) and white calipers with blacm amg writting. (yes, i would even mod an f40, a maclarenf1..... anything, no car is perfect from the factory)
i was thinking of getting a 996tt but was put off by the 4wd and the ease of driving (i know that sounds weird
). i like cars that make me work for my speed, anyone can drive a turbo fast. i would definitely take a rs over a turbo, id take a gt3 over a turbo too. the ford gt is nice, i dunno if i wouldve traded that for an slr, but then again, ive never been a fan of the slr, at all well i cant really brag about murdering supercars in my porsche, b/c there is a very small chance that anything street legal will pull on me in a canyon race. i wrote that when i had my clk, it was stock, with wheels on it and michelin pilot sport 2's (N1 up front) 235 and 275, i also did exhaust and modified the airbox, thats it. i had some good runs with a couple 360's one on sunset and one on beverly glen, the one on beverly glen pulled over to let me pass
i also ran a 996tt on sunset and passed him on the outside of the long sweeper right by ucla (going west, uphill), i had 2 other people in my car (gotta love amg, m and rs). cant really say it was the car thats me in the vids, ive only been to a track once, when i went to the amg challenge
and i beat tommy kendall (see vid in sig)goodnight
be talking to you
Last edited by AMG_55; 05-29-2007 at 06:05 AM.
05-29-2007, 08:24 AM
#56
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996 C4, previously owned 996 c2, c32 amg, 350z, R33 GTR, R34 GTR
Sorry to hijack
I would hate having a track car with an auto box (i know they are more efficient than manuals). I think MB have taken a different route to BMW and are stuck with auto`s and I cannot see them engineering a manual for a top-line product.
Having just driven a 977 Turbo and 997 GT3 RS in the same month, I would go for the RS everytime. The engine in the RS is just fantastic and anyone who appreciates machines will enjoy it. The Turbo was scary fast but was too efficient for its own good.
For me a GT3 is closest to the ideal car for road driving and track use.
Anyway I think the clk63 bs will provide their lucky owners with satisfaction although the dealers will be bracing themselves for track related warranty claims........
I would hate having a track car with an auto box (i know they are more efficient than manuals). I think MB have taken a different route to BMW and are stuck with auto`s and I cannot see them engineering a manual for a top-line product.
Having just driven a 977 Turbo and 997 GT3 RS in the same month, I would go for the RS everytime. The engine in the RS is just fantastic and anyone who appreciates machines will enjoy it. The Turbo was scary fast but was too efficient for its own good.
For me a GT3 is closest to the ideal car for road driving and track use.
Anyway I think the clk63 bs will provide their lucky owners with satisfaction although the dealers will be bracing themselves for track related warranty claims........
05-29-2007, 09:38 AM
#57
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This is also what happens when you make posts about how driving in the canyons is a better way to build your skills than on a race track.
You are the one who posts you are 24 all the time on this board. If you didn't want it brought up then why post it?
If you would have started this thread with " The CLK Black Series is nice but I really wish Mercedes would get off their rear and build some real competition to the M3."
You would have gotten a totally different response from me. I would have actually agreed BUT instead you chose to bash a car that was never intended to be a 12,000 unit a year product.
You are clearly not the target market for this car but you choose to keep acting like no one else is and can't appreciate that this car is something special from AMG.
Age only becomes an issue when you make it one. I don't care if magwheel is 16 or 160, the fact that he has a garage full of supercars and drives them lends him credibility in my book. I have never read a post from him where he trys to explain the vehicle dynamics of each one in terms of camber adjustment and preloads. His post are that of an enthusiast that shares his experiences for others to enjoy in real world situations. (No digs on you if you are in fact a serious race driver.)
Don't expect to spout off with your opinions without expecting others to not agree. You mentioned somewhere that we got off topic but I don't think we really did.
S
Last edited by Schiznick; 05-29-2007 at 03:13 PM.
05-29-2007, 02:09 PM
#58
Alan,
You might want to read the comparison before you make the assumption.
Bedford Autodrome's West Circuit is hardly the "Ring" at 1.8 miles. Keep in mind the Brits idolize anything made on their turf. Sharp turn in and poise was easily overcome by brut power and engineering. True it wasn't the top of the line Elise but it still had all the handling prowess of the bigger brother.
Was it an absurd comparison, only if you were a sports car and had a slower lap time than an SUV.
You might want to read the comparison before you make the assumption.
Bedford Autodrome's West Circuit is hardly the "Ring" at 1.8 miles. Keep in mind the Brits idolize anything made on their turf. Sharp turn in and poise was easily overcome by brut power and engineering. True it wasn't the top of the line Elise but it still had all the handling prowess of the bigger brother.
Was it an absurd comparison, only if you were a sports car and had a slower lap time than an SUV.
05-29-2007, 02:28 PM
#59
05-29-2007, 07:56 PM
#61
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It was a fun read, and I do like both the Cayenne Turbo and the ML63. But it's absurd to comAe away thinking that either SUV handles better than the Elise based on lap times. The Elise took almost twice as long as the ML to reach 100mph. That the Elise's lap times were anywhere near the SUVs with that much of a power disparity shows how much better the Elise handles.
Thanks for the response. I looked at the graph and it seem the Elise beat the SUV's in the braking area creating faster apex speeds. I'm not suprised as I've killed a few Boxsters with my Turbo Cayenne but it was on a much longer track (Calif. Speedway) with banking. Agreed it would be difficult to keep the pace in anything more than a twenty minute session. But for a few laps don't underestimate a well driven mega HP SUV with all the electronic aids.
05-29-2007, 09:00 PM
#62
05-29-2007, 11:22 PM
#63
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The racing axiem is "slow in fast out". The Elise brakes later into the corners and comes out faster than the SUV's as the graph indicates. The apex is not the end of braking its the beginning of acceleration. As the auther states "but it brakes later into most corners and carries more speed at the apices". I belive that what I said.
05-30-2007, 12:29 AM
#64
Exactly. The SUVs, on the other hand, are not able to carry as much speed at the apices, so they must brake sooner. Therefore they don't handle as well; their quick lap times made up in a straight line since the Euro-spec 135hp Elise S is no match for either of the SUVs' 500hp+. Are we in agreement?
05-30-2007, 05:29 PM
#65
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Exactly. The SUVs, on the other hand, are not able to carry as much speed at the apices, so they must brake sooner. Therefore they don't handle as well; their quick lap times made up in a straight line since the Euro-spec 135hp Elise S is no match for either of the SUVs' 500hp+. Are we in agreement?
05-30-2007, 10:15 PM
#67
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05-30-2007, 10:20 PM
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No, this is what happens when you make posts like you started this thread with.
This is also what happens when you make posts about how driving in the canyons is a better way to build your skills than on a race track.
You are the one who posts you are 24 all the time on this board. If you didn't want it brought up then why post it?
If you would have started this thread with " The CLK Black Series is nice but I really wish Mercedes would get off their rear and build some real competition to the M3."
You would have gotten a totally different response from me. I would have actually agreed BUT instead you chose to bash a car that was never intended to be a 12,000 unit a year product.
You are clearly not the target market for this car but you choose to keep acting like no one else is and can't appreciate that this car is something special from AMG.
Age only becomes an issue when you make it one. I don't care if magwheel is 16 or 160, the fact that he has a garage full of supercars and drives them lends him credibility in my book. I have never read a post from him where he trys to explain the vehicle dynamics of each one in terms of camber adjustment and preloads. His post are that of an enthusiast that shares his experiences for others to enjoy in real world situations. (No digs on you if you are in fact a serious race driver.)
Don't expect to spout off with your opinions without expecting others to not agree. You mentioned somewhere that we got off topic but I don't think we really did.
S
This is also what happens when you make posts about how driving in the canyons is a better way to build your skills than on a race track.
You are the one who posts you are 24 all the time on this board. If you didn't want it brought up then why post it?
If you would have started this thread with " The CLK Black Series is nice but I really wish Mercedes would get off their rear and build some real competition to the M3."
You would have gotten a totally different response from me. I would have actually agreed BUT instead you chose to bash a car that was never intended to be a 12,000 unit a year product.
You are clearly not the target market for this car but you choose to keep acting like no one else is and can't appreciate that this car is something special from AMG.
Age only becomes an issue when you make it one. I don't care if magwheel is 16 or 160, the fact that he has a garage full of supercars and drives them lends him credibility in my book. I have never read a post from him where he trys to explain the vehicle dynamics of each one in terms of camber adjustment and preloads. His post are that of an enthusiast that shares his experiences for others to enjoy in real world situations. (No digs on you if you are in fact a serious race driver.)
Don't expect to spout off with your opinions without expecting others to not agree. You mentioned somewhere that we got off topic but I don't think we really did.
S
where did i say that canyon driving builds your skill better than track driving?
everything i know about driving i learned in go karts
i never bashed the car, just said it was overpriced imo, thats it, where did i say it was a bad car?
so because someone has a garage full of supercars means that they know them well and know how they handle at the limit etc..? did you ever think that posers buy supercars too? people that dont even know how warm up a car and mash on the gas right after starting it. nothing against mag, i dunno the dude, just an example.
as for all the other things, you mention, id just rather not get into it
05-30-2007, 10:49 PM
#71
No. That you admittedly risk the life of yourself and therefore others on the roads I drive, jog, bike, and walk my dog on (I live on Mulholland)...or, in your words, because you like an "element of danger"...means you're a menace to society. That you obviously don't understand this is why I'm calling you immature.
05-31-2007, 03:25 AM
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No. That you admittedly risk the life of yourself and therefore others on the roads I drive, jog, bike, and walk my dog on (I live on Mulholland)...or, in your words, because you like an "element of danger"...means you're a menace to society. That you obviously don't understand this is why I'm calling you immature.
to me its a sport, no different to golf, basketball etc...
to living on mulholland maybe ill see you around
05-31-2007, 07:22 AM
#73
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05-31-2007, 07:30 AM
#74
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it makes me different
immature, thats your opinion, everyone is entitled to their own
btw,
i dont do runs on mulholland during the day, dont worry about me when jogging/biking etc....
k,.... maybe a couple of corners
but thats it, i promise.... its the car..... i swear
immature, thats your opinion, everyone is entitled to their own
btw,
i dont do runs on mulholland during the day, dont worry about me when jogging/biking etc....
k,.... maybe a couple of corners
but thats it, i promise.... its the car..... i swear
05-31-2007, 07:42 AM
#75
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The future of America, ladies and gentlemen.....
