spifffs

i just got finished reading the new road and track, their test panel for an 08 manual m3 had NEARLY identical specs, on 0-60 times, g's braking and 1/4 mile times. WHAT IS GOING ON HERE! the same performance for half the price, i bought this car NEVER intending to go to a track,(i think i would kill myself) and really just wanted a very special weekend driver car. It is a wonderful car dont get me wrong, but these new discoveries are making me crazy

Korn55

Don't sweat it bro. This car is not made for 0-60 times or 1/4 mile times. It's the mystique of owning one of these cars. There will be 18 trillion m3's produced. All of us BS owners could have gone and bought Z06's if we wanted those things, but we chose the BS. The car handles incredible with the esp off when you get well adjusted to it. Mercedes could have made it a little lighter or even made the interior a little racier, but they didn't. I love my car. For a Mercedes it's a kick *** car. Plus, it looks amazing, I just wish it had some crazy factory race wing to really set it apart. All of us Los Angeles based BS owners should plan a day at Willow Springs and get some sweet video of it. That is where the car will really shine.

LZH

EXACTLY!!!
Those early #'s don't mean squat, nor should you care. Wait till the new M3 laps the 'Ring then we can talk... There are plenty of faster cars on the road, but none carry the exclusivity of the BS and very few are factory built with such attention to detail and carry a full factory warranty. Sure, some meet those last 2 criteria, but they are much more expensive than the Black Series...F430 for example.
On a given day in LA, I see lots of exotics, too many to mention...Porsches are more common than SUV's, Fcars are a dime a dozen, etc...I have only seen one other Black Series...And guess what, that makes me feel good about my purchase - and so should you.

Korn - I can put together a day at Streets...But I'd really like to run the Big track.

alexander stemer

Congratulations, you got exactly what you wanted. Specs can be very deceiving as related to the actual driving experience. The BS has torque in spades, and will feel quicker on the street than the M3, which redlines at 8300, and makes its power near at the top of the band. That really works at the track, but not in traffic when you are lugging along at 2500 rpm. Try a Honda S2000 as an extreme case. It has really good track numbers, but is a dog in daily use. To me, the M5, which has the V10, and more power is also disappointing in traffic. One thing about the BS is that, while driving in traffic, you will rarely say to yourself, "this thing could use more power". When you drive a ZO6 or an M5, that thought does occur. (The new ZR1 will change that)

If it is a decision about the biggest bang for the buck, then a ZO6 or the new Nissan GTR is a better choice in theory. But then, an Evo 8 with a few mods will beat that.

If what you wanted was a true driver's car with more performance than you can ever use, great looks, reasonable comfort, and high quality, you made the right choice. If you are concerned ablut the M3, see which one the valet parks out in front of the restaurant the next time you take your wife to dinner. AS

MACHC5

Guys, As a point of carformation we have a local Chevrolet Dealer who is still... sitting on their 1978 Silver & Black Corvette Pace Car allocation with the special 8-Track option.

When it was new... they put a big $ adjusted number on the car and held the line...

Today... they have a 30-Yr old car with about 50 miles on it... that in adjusted dollars maybe worth less then List when new.

Take the CLK63 BS anywhere that car people are at... park it and walk a short distance away... then watch the camera phones pop out... as it becomes a fashion model for the car culture clan...

Korn55

Let's do big Willow. I ran my modded 996tt there with Cort Wagner in my passenger seat. After I ran a 1:32, he got in the car alone and ran a 1:28.5. He is a sick driver. I love the big track with that long straight away. Let's do it.

spifffs

thanks for the words of reassurance, anyway i would love to go to this race track everyone talks about, i have never been to a track. how far is it from newport beach, and do i need to bring anything special, do i have to buy a helmet or something, special shoes, etc??? is it expensive. anyway i would love to set something up after the new year to get a couple of us SOCAL black series owners together, how many of us are there?

Korn55

Willow Springs is off of the 14 freeway near Lancaster/Pamldale area. From Sherman Oaks it's about a 90 minute drive. My gues is if we got 7 or 8 BS to the track it would be around $400 a person. If anyone has any contacts at AMG, it would be cool if they could come out and do some filming of all of us running.

Jim Brady

I've had many, many, stick shift cars. High rpm, low torque cars, in stop and go is a test rarely acknowledged by any car magazine. One week in a stick on the 405 Orange County to Beverly Hills will reveal another side of the car called the real world. For the less than 1% a car see on the track, its a huge issue for me in a 3 hour commute slipping the clutch going 5 miles an hour.
The CLK 63 BS drives like a regular benz in those grid lock times.
Jimmy

Jim Brady

Korn
I'm in for Big Willow track day. Not to steal your thunder, Cort did a 1:27.7 with me riding in the passenger seat of my porsche! Said he couldn't put down the power and needed slicks.

In spite of the race car performance of the porsche, the Black is much easier to drive. I'm confident that its a low 1:30's with club drivers.
Jimmu

PC Valkyrie

Back to the original topic of the thread, here are the laptimes/cornering speeds around Hockenheim track in a direct head to head comparison of the E92 M3 and CLK63 AMG Black Series performed by Sport Auto. The CLK63 AMG Black Series is faster, but not by that much. Both were on R-compound tires.

Acez

what's with the spoiler on the BS?

Addicted2Speed

IMO, the price/performance ratio for CLK63 Black Series is very poor. For $135,000, you can buy Porsche 997TT or a slightly used SL65, Lamborgini Gallardo, or Ford GT. Also, if you look at CLK63 Convertible and CLK63 coupe numbers, they are almost identical to CLK63 Black Series... which makes me question if BS is even worth the extra money. As you can see from the following article, CLK63 convertible runs the 1/4 mile in 12.5 @ 116mph, which is almost the same as CLK63 Black Series (coupe).

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...cabriolet.html

Clk&Slk

The Black series was designed for all out race car and can barely beat a stock M3. What happen when BMW come out with the "CSL" edition. The last M3 "CSL" edition beat the stock M3 by more then 2 sec. on the same track.

ET550

I guess you judge the worth of a car solely by 1/4 mile times. How is the price/ performance ratio of your SLK 55 compared to a Corvette or WRX STI? Is there really a better price/performance ratio for an SL65 or CLK 63 Convertible which can only use their power in a drag race. I would have expected more from someone who drive's an Elise. What the CLK Black does is combine superior performance, handling, daily comfort and exclusiveness in one package. I am sure you will find cars that can beat it any one category but you will have a hard time finding a new car that can do all of them better at that price. If you prefer a GT3 or 997TT for the same money, go for it.

Ted Baldwin

.........I know this is blasphemy for some, but does anyone have published lap times between the CLK63 BS and CLK63 fixed roof. I know this info will have to come from our european members since we don't have the later here. Is no one curious?

Ted

Ted Baldwin

.........Here is a link to lap times of various cars at the ring. Notable ones are the Nissan GTR, simply incredible. Also check out the the times for the yet to be released SL63 BS. You can compare how your car stacks up to others for bragging rights. Yes, CLK63 BS is also listed. To me the amazing ones are the SL63 BS and Nissan GTR. Bith are faster than the SLR at the ring. These are regular production cars. Of course these numbers may not be accurate.

http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

Ted

Jim Brady

It's the aero package which includes a deeper front spoiler also in carbon fiber. Not available in US.
Jimmy

Jim Brady

The black was NOT designed as an all out race car. It's roots are the F1 saftey car and CLK DTM It is a car that can be driven on the street and track.

By comparing head to head as magazines do,it assumes that the durability is the same, its not. I doubt BMW warrants their car for track use. In fact they tried to weasel out of warrantee claims on the last M3 motor when it became apparent it was clearly a manufacturing defect in the con rods. AMG has publicly stated that the black is covered for track events like the AMG trophy, and AMG Challenge.
At the end of the day only AMG and porsche stand behind their products when used a as advertised.
Jimmy

alexander stemer

If you follow Rennlist, you will be surprised to know that Porsche does not uphold the warranty if the car has been tracked. A few posters (including me) have had the benefit of coverage, but many have not. It appears to be dealer and custmer specific.
There was a huge uproar over carbon ceramic brake failure that wasn't covered, costing $10,000 to replace, and causing many to strip off the ceramics and switch to steel Brembo's. Transmission repairs have also been denied (though one can see how that could be misuse-related). Right now, I would say anybody with a Porsche who wants their warranty to be maintained with certainty has to avoid tracking, or at least effectively conceal that use. One single type 2 over rev (the kind when the engine is forced over redline thru downshifting) will void the warranty entirely. This is a huge change from the 90's when track use was encouraged, and all Porsche wanted was a pre-event "inspection" which cost about $50. AS

PC Valkyrie

Sport Auto has tested the CLK63 AMG coupe and the CLK63 AMG Black series on the Hockenheim track, but on different days and not in a head to head conditions. It was not part of their famous "Supertest" series, so I don't even know if it was the same pro driver.

The standard CLK63 AMG coupe had a laptime of 1.18,4 minutes with street tires. As such, it is hard to really compare to the CLK63 AMG Black Series time of 1.13,8 minutes which was done with R-compound tires.

I personally was interested in performance of the CLK63 AMG coupe because it had essentially the same chassis as my C55 AMG, but it has over 100HP more than my car. Despite having over 100HP more than the C55, it was only 0.2 seconds faster than the C55 AMG (both on street tires) around the short twisty Hockenheim track, making me suspect that the much heavier 6.2L V8 in the front may have had a negative impact on the handling (5.4L V8 weighs 172kg, vs 199kg for the 6.2L V8).

Of course, we all know the CLK63 AMG Black Series is nothing like the standard CLK63 AMG coupe, so its handling should be much better, although it seems it is not that much better than the E92 M3.

Ted Baldwin

.........thanks for the info.

........another car of note on the list is the Lexus LFA which lapped the ring at 7.24. This earth shatttering. It makes the Nissan GTR look slow. I don't know what is happening, but it looks like the Japanese mean business. The LFA is faster than all direct out of factory everything from Germany and is estimated to cost a moddest $170K in comparison. That is less expensive than SL65 which if the numbers are true, will be like turtoise chasing a Cheatah when the two are compared.

Ted

MACHC5

Sooo... with all this talk about our cars.

Who's going for a 2008 New Years drive in their CLK63 BS today...?

Jim Brady

AS
Thanks for bringing that up. I know some of the porsche warrantee claims are based upon the ecu numbers on average speed and over revs. It looks like only AMG stands behind their product for track use.

Clk&Slk

1) I guess you right !! I should said, it was designed based on "WANNABE" race car with stripped "everything". With that kind of hp and tq more then the M3, it should have beat the M3 by at least 4 sec. The CSL M3 only got about 30 hp more then the stardand M3 and beat it by more then 2 sec. at the same track.

2) Those events are a JOKE if you called it racing. It nothing more then a tracks set-up just to test drive the cars !!

Check out the laps times listed........





7:22.9 - 169.07 km/h -- Loaded BMW M3 CSL (tuned to GTR specs) ~600 PS

7:45* -- 159.48 km/h -- Mercedes CLK 63 AMG Black Series, 507 PS/1760 kg