Addicted2Speed

You have a good point, however, you are missing the fact that CLK DTM is a collector's item with a limited production run of 100 units, while CLK63BS is just another mass-produced vehicle. DTM's value has nothing to do with performance, but everything with exclusivity.

ET550

Maybe you should go back and read his original post again. He clearly points out that the CLK DTM is more exclusive with only 100 units v 500 units (although I hardly think that qualifies as mass produced).

jrcart

Ya, those mass-produced Black Series' are a dime a dozen, I must have seen at least 3 of them this morning on my way into the office! They are getting to be like friggin Honda Accords!

Schiznick

As much as I love my CLK Black Series...... Drive a CLK DTM and you will understand the difference.

Lap times on the ring do not really tell the difference in these two vehicles.

If you have the means to buy the car, I would take it for a spin and then let us know how you think it compares.

jrcart

I could justify buying that specific car if it were indeed a certified AMG factory built 625 HP motor, otherwise I could never justify it. What difference will I see when I drive it? I spent hours researching DTM's yesterday (due to this damn thread) and the performance numbers are near equal, a tenth or two 0-60, .25 second in the 1/4 mile. Tops speed would have to be close if the BS were not electronically limited. The BS actually out performs the DTM is a few catagories such as braking and lateral G's. What could be so different, I am really sincerly curious? Like I stated before, I'm 110% positive my Black Series is going to be able to chew up and spit out a DTM in ALL catagories for well under $200,000 including all sales tax and mods. The DTM only has a 30WHP or less advantage over a BS from all the research I did. I found several sources that put the RWHP figures for a 2004 DTM in the 445-450 range. My BS made 419 if my memory serves me correctly. I really wish somebody on here had a DTM so we could put this topic to rest.

Schiznick

Here is my perspective on the CLK - DTM

When the DTM was produced in 2005 it was MILES ahead of anything AMG had produced as a road going car (other then the CLK GTR.) It has taken until 2008 for them to produce anything even close in the CLK Black Series.

I still think that even with 3 years of additional development it is just close.

Performance - TORQUE The torque of the DTM in that chassis is INSANE. The DTM pulls like a SL65 without the Turbo lag. Throttle response is crisp and direct. Steering provides the best feedback of any modern AMG to date. Turn in is crisp in a way that solid bushings provide direct feedback. You immediately get the feeling that this car was built for the track and less compromises were made for the DTM to be a street car. The transmission is one of the best parts of the vehicle. This is the only mercedes that you can truly feel a shift pop off.

Interior- The car is all business carbon fiber. Not just a bit here and there but everywhere. Doors, console, rear area, all business. Racing seats, harness tie ins all done to AMG spec.

Styling - some say it is a bit riceish but for me it was pure agressive sex in 2005 when it was released. It still has one of the hottest asses in town.

For me, to compare the DTM with the Black is a bit of a stretch. The DTM's were a hand built series of 100 vehicles produced in Affalterbach with no holds barred. The cars started as basic CLK's and were torn down and completely rebuilt from scratch. The Black as awesome as it is in my eyes, still has a production flair to it.

With 200K, I am sure that I could build many cars that will outperform the CLK DTM but it will still not be a CLK DTM.

Now if they could have only had it weigh 3100 lbs........

I have said it before on this forum. I still think the CLK DTM will go down in history as one of the baddest cars to ever wear the Mercedes Star.

Just my .02

Schiz

ET550

As you say, the CLK DTM has less compromises for the street and was built more as an all out track car. That is exactly what makes the BS so great. It performs almost as well (or better in some aspects) on the track while also being a much better street car, for a lot less money.

WoodHill Motors

As nice as the CLK DTM is, for $200k+, I'm going with a Ferrari F430. Hands down.

SteveL

Exactly how I feel and that is why I think the DTM is worth the premium. This is just my personal opinion but to me the BS is a compromise to not be able to get a DTM at a price point I can afford. Getting a car out of AMG that was more intended for the track than the street is more what I am after and right now, the DTM is the only such car. I just wish it was $200K. The BS is a good step in that direction but it is still not a DTM.

Schiznick

You missed the point here. In these circles the question is "and" not "or."

SteveL

Did MB release more CLK63 BS cars? I just a nationwide search for BS on Autotrader.com and there were 88 cars fore sale. Most of them new at dealers. One place had at least 4 of them. I was shocked that 88 came up as being available. I expected to see maybe 15 or so.

LZH

Dude...learn how to run a search on autotrader. First of all, if you select body style, COUPE....it doesn't even give you the option to select CLK 63 AMG and there is no BLACK SERIES option at all....
If you look at all Mercedes body styles, then it gives you the option to select CLK 63 AMG. I ran that search just now and got a total of 159 cars that fall into the broad paramater of CLK 63 AMG. Of those 159 cars for sale, most all are CABRIOLETS, and most dealers use the BS as a file photo and say they have 4 in stock....guaranteed they are referring to cabs....not to mention the multiple BS for sale that have no photo or any other information which are clearly brokers...
Autotrader is not a viable or reliable resource to comment on the BS market.

Addicted2Speed

There are 19 used black series on autotrader right now and many new ones.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search...WVz__&systime=

They are not like Honda Accords, but there are 7 of them on ebay right and 19 used ones on autotrader. I think at one point I saw 30 for sale at the same time, (which is more than SL65's). When was the last time you saw a CLK-DTM for sale?

LZH

Yeah, that's an accurate comparison casue they are priced pretty much the same and have the same production numbers....
DER.

SteveL

Dude, before you tell others how to use it, learn how to use it yourself. Select CLK63 AMG, click on advanced and in Keyword(s) type Black Series. Returns 88 cars and they all look unique. It might be a little off because it says for some dealers there are 8 cars but only 3 exact matches. There may also be some brokers in there but there are still a lot for sale.

Price range is

Range of prices within this search:
Highest Price: $179,990
Lowest Price: $119,900
Average Price: $138,977

So unless regular CLK63s have dramatically increased in price, this is just covering BS cars.

Here is a link if you can't figure it out: BS in Autotrader

LZH

You just figured that key word function ?? LOL...
And there 79, not 88 as you previously posted.

c32used

I Personally Always Felt The Pcar To Be A Dream Car All My Life But Have To Admit The Bs Would Give It A Run For The Money For Me If I Were Shopping For A Car At That Level...but Then Again If I Were Shopping For A Car A A 100k Plus I Would Take A Gt2...on A Side Note The 977tt Is Awd Thus Can Be Driven In The Snow But Can't Imagine That Being To Easy For The Bs...both Are Very Interesting Cars!

LZH

that made me dizzy

WoodHill Motors

SteveL

Nice try. Your embarrassing yourself. Here is your brilliant technique "First of all, if you select body style, COUPE....it doesn't even give you the option to select CLK 63 AMG and there is no BLACK SERIES option at all....". Who just figured out there was a keyword option? Seriously LOL...

There is a huge diff between 79 and 88. I can't believe you actually counted.

Jim Brady

FWIW, ALL cars are for sale...

SteveL

Very true. I was simply surprised how many were listed as available. I thought they had pretty much sold out and the only ones I would find were brokers trying to make a profit.

And since LZH is counting autotrader is now reporting 89.

Search Results
We found 89 Mercedes-Benz listings any distance from Saratoga, CA.

SoCalCLK

Was at MBZ of Long Beach, Calif. yesterday. They had a brand-new, never sold CLK63 AMG Black Series in white with a black interior.

The MSRP was $127,000 and the only "option" was Gas Guzzler tax, that's it.

Nice car, but I heard some customers say, "It's still just an overpriced CLK!"

jrcart

Are you sure about that price? 127K?? I thought they were all the same price, about $139K plus or minus a couple bucks depending on metalic paint or not. I was not aware of any options that would allow the price to flux 12k. Was the $127K MSRP or was that a dealer discounted price?

LZH

Seems low to me too...