CLK63 Black Series vs. (997)911TT
#126
Dude, I'm going to be the first one to call you out. Believe me I am all for people voicing their opinions, everyone on here knows I am not shy about voicing mine.
How can you make a statement that the CLK BS is not special enough to have a $50K premium, and then the next thing out of your mouth it that the DTM is???? A DTM goes for nearly $200K! A CLK BS is rated at 500HP and the DTM is rated at 574HP, everyone knows that on a dyno the DTM's are only making in the ball park of 445HP vs CLK BS 420HP at the wheels. So you are saying that the extra 25 HP you get with the BS over a standard CLK 63 Cabrio is not worth $50,000, but the extra 25 HP you get with the DTM is????? In addition to the extra 25HP you get in the BS you get lots of extra goodies that you can't get in a standard CLK 63. How many extra goodies does the the DTM offer over the BS? Not many!
You say the CLK BS is heavy, It's 26 pounds heavier than the DTM 3880 vs 3854! All of the specs I have read show the CLK BS out braking the DTM by 5-8 feet fom 60-0. the only legit arguement you can make is that the DTM is more rare 100 or so copies vs 500 BS's.
My last point will be made in a week when I pick my car up from Evosport. For well under $200k I will have a car that will smoke a DTM CLK, in a straight line or on a road course and it's nearly as rare. How many CLK BS's have you seen on the road? Does anyone out there with a DTM want to try to prove me wrong? I'm up for the challenge.
How can you make a statement that the CLK BS is not special enough to have a $50K premium, and then the next thing out of your mouth it that the DTM is???? A DTM goes for nearly $200K! A CLK BS is rated at 500HP and the DTM is rated at 574HP, everyone knows that on a dyno the DTM's are only making in the ball park of 445HP vs CLK BS 420HP at the wheels. So you are saying that the extra 25 HP you get with the BS over a standard CLK 63 Cabrio is not worth $50,000, but the extra 25 HP you get with the DTM is????? In addition to the extra 25HP you get in the BS you get lots of extra goodies that you can't get in a standard CLK 63. How many extra goodies does the the DTM offer over the BS? Not many!
You say the CLK BS is heavy, It's 26 pounds heavier than the DTM 3880 vs 3854! All of the specs I have read show the CLK BS out braking the DTM by 5-8 feet fom 60-0. the only legit arguement you can make is that the DTM is more rare 100 or so copies vs 500 BS's.
My last point will be made in a week when I pick my car up from Evosport. For well under $200k I will have a car that will smoke a DTM CLK, in a straight line or on a road course and it's nearly as rare. How many CLK BS's have you seen on the road? Does anyone out there with a DTM want to try to prove me wrong? I'm up for the challenge.
You have a good point, however, you are missing the fact that CLK DTM is a collector's item with a limited production run of 100 units, while CLK63BS is just another mass-produced vehicle. DTM's value has nothing to do with performance, but everything with exclusivity.
#127
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 369
Likes: 3
From: CT
2008 CLK 63 Black Series, 2013 G63, 2014 RS5 Coupe, 2013 JKUR 10A
You have a good point, however, you are missing the fact that CLK DTM is a collector's item with a limited production run of 100 units, while CLK63BS is just another mass-produced vehicle. DTM's value has nothing to do with performance, but everything with exclusivity.
#128
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 54
From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
You have a good point, however, you are missing the fact that CLK DTM is a collector's item with a limited production run of 100 units, while CLK63BS is just another mass-produced vehicle. DTM's value has nothing to do with performance, but everything with exclusivity.
#129
As much as I love my CLK Black Series...... Drive a CLK DTM and you will understand the difference.
Lap times on the ring do not really tell the difference in these two vehicles.
If you have the means to buy the car, I would take it for a spin and then let us know how you think it compares.
Lap times on the ring do not really tell the difference in these two vehicles.
If you have the means to buy the car, I would take it for a spin and then let us know how you think it compares.
#130
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 54
From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
As much as I love my CLK Black Series...... Drive a CLK DTM and you will understand the difference.
Lap times on the ring do not really tell the difference in these two vehicles.
If you have the means to buy the car, I would take it for a spin and then let us know how you think it compares.
Lap times on the ring do not really tell the difference in these two vehicles.
If you have the means to buy the car, I would take it for a spin and then let us know how you think it compares.
#131
I could justify buying that specific car if it were indeed a certified AMG factory built 625 HP motor, otherwise I could never justify it. What difference will I see when I drive it? I spent hours researching DTM's yesterday (due to this damn thread) and the performance numbers are near equal, a tenth or two 0-60, .25 second in the 1/4 mile. Tops speed would have to be close if the BS were not electronically limited. The BS actually out performs the DTM is a few catagories such as braking and lateral G's. What could be so different, I am really sincerly curious? Like I stated before, I'm 110% positive my Black Series is going to be able to chew up and spit out a DTM in ALL catagories for well under $200,000 including all sales tax and mods. The DTM only has a 30WHP or less advantage over a BS from all the research I did. I found several sources that put the RWHP figures for a 2004 DTM in the 445-450 range. My BS made 419 if my memory serves me correctly. I really wish somebody on here had a DTM so we could put this topic to rest.
When the DTM was produced in 2005 it was MILES ahead of anything AMG had produced as a road going car (other then the CLK GTR.) It has taken until 2008 for them to produce anything even close in the CLK Black Series.
I still think that even with 3 years of additional development it is just close.
Performance - TORQUE The torque of the DTM in that chassis is INSANE. The DTM pulls like a SL65 without the Turbo lag. Throttle response is crisp and direct. Steering provides the best feedback of any modern AMG to date. Turn in is crisp in a way that solid bushings provide direct feedback. You immediately get the feeling that this car was built for the track and less compromises were made for the DTM to be a street car. The transmission is one of the best parts of the vehicle. This is the only mercedes that you can truly feel a shift pop off.
Interior- The car is all business carbon fiber. Not just a bit here and there but everywhere. Doors, console, rear area, all business. Racing seats, harness tie ins all done to AMG spec.
Styling - some say it is a bit riceish but for me it was pure agressive sex in 2005 when it was released. It still has one of the hottest asses in town.
For me, to compare the DTM with the Black is a bit of a stretch. The DTM's were a hand built series of 100 vehicles produced in Affalterbach with no holds barred. The cars started as basic CLK's and were torn down and completely rebuilt from scratch. The Black as awesome as it is in my eyes, still has a production flair to it.
With 200K, I am sure that I could build many cars that will outperform the CLK DTM but it will still not be a CLK DTM.
Now if they could have only had it weigh 3100 lbs........
I have said it before on this forum. I still think the CLK DTM will go down in history as one of the baddest cars to ever wear the Mercedes Star.
Just my .02
Schiz
#132
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 369
Likes: 3
From: CT
2008 CLK 63 Black Series, 2013 G63, 2014 RS5 Coupe, 2013 JKUR 10A
Here is my perspective on the CLK - DTM
When the DTM was produced in 2005 it was MILES ahead of anything AMG had produced as a road going car (other then the CLK GTR.) It has taken until 2008 for them to produce anything even close in the CLK Black Series.
I still think that even with 3 years of additional development it is just close.
Performance - TORQUE The torque of the DTM in that chassis is INSANE. The DTM pulls like a SL65 without the Turbo lag. Throttle response is crisp and direct. Steering provides the best feedback of any modern AMG to date. Turn in is crisp in a way that solid bushings provide direct feedback. You immediately get the feeling that this car was built for the track and less compromises were made for the DTM to be a street car. The transmission is one of the best parts of the vehicle. This is the only mercedes that you can truly feel a shift pop off.
Interior- The car is all business carbon fiber. Not just a bit here and there but everywhere. Doors, console, rear area, all business. Racing seats, harness tie ins all done to AMG spec.
Styling - some say it is a bit riceish but for me it was pure agressive sex in 2005 when it was released. It still has one of the hottest asses in town.
For me, to compare the DTM with the Black is a bit of a stretch. The DTM's were a hand built series of 100 vehicles produced in Affalterbach with no holds barred. The cars started as basic CLK's and were torn down and completely rebuilt from scratch. The Black as awesome as it is in my eyes, still has a production flair to it.
With 200K, I am sure that I could build many cars that will outperform the CLK DTM but it will still not be a CLK DTM.
Now if they could have only had it weigh 3100 lbs........
I have said it before on this forum. I still think the CLK DTM will go down in history as one of the baddest cars to ever wear the Mercedes Star.
Just my .02
Schiz
When the DTM was produced in 2005 it was MILES ahead of anything AMG had produced as a road going car (other then the CLK GTR.) It has taken until 2008 for them to produce anything even close in the CLK Black Series.
I still think that even with 3 years of additional development it is just close.
Performance - TORQUE The torque of the DTM in that chassis is INSANE. The DTM pulls like a SL65 without the Turbo lag. Throttle response is crisp and direct. Steering provides the best feedback of any modern AMG to date. Turn in is crisp in a way that solid bushings provide direct feedback. You immediately get the feeling that this car was built for the track and less compromises were made for the DTM to be a street car. The transmission is one of the best parts of the vehicle. This is the only mercedes that you can truly feel a shift pop off.
Interior- The car is all business carbon fiber. Not just a bit here and there but everywhere. Doors, console, rear area, all business. Racing seats, harness tie ins all done to AMG spec.
Styling - some say it is a bit riceish but for me it was pure agressive sex in 2005 when it was released. It still has one of the hottest asses in town.
For me, to compare the DTM with the Black is a bit of a stretch. The DTM's were a hand built series of 100 vehicles produced in Affalterbach with no holds barred. The cars started as basic CLK's and were torn down and completely rebuilt from scratch. The Black as awesome as it is in my eyes, still has a production flair to it.
With 200K, I am sure that I could build many cars that will outperform the CLK DTM but it will still not be a CLK DTM.
Now if they could have only had it weigh 3100 lbs........
I have said it before on this forum. I still think the CLK DTM will go down in history as one of the baddest cars to ever wear the Mercedes Star.
Just my .02
Schiz
#134
Exactly how I feel and that is why I think the DTM is worth the premium. This is just my personal opinion but to me the BS is a compromise to not be able to get a DTM at a price point I can afford. Getting a car out of AMG that was more intended for the track than the street is more what I am after and right now, the DTM is the only such car. I just wish it was $200K. The BS is a good step in that direction but it is still not a DTM.
#135
#136
Did MB release more CLK63 BS cars? I just a nationwide search for BS on Autotrader.com and there were 88 cars fore sale. Most of them new at dealers. One place had at least 4 of them. I was shocked that 88 came up as being available. I expected to see maybe 15 or so.
#137
Banned
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 1
CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
If you look at all Mercedes body styles, then it gives you the option to select CLK 63 AMG. I ran that search just now and got a total of 159 cars that fall into the broad paramater of CLK 63 AMG. Of those 159 cars for sale, most all are CABRIOLETS, and most dealers use the BS as a file photo and say they have 4 in stock....guaranteed they are referring to cabs....not to mention the multiple BS for sale that have no photo or any other information which are clearly brokers...
Autotrader is not a viable or reliable resource to comment on the BS market.
#138
There are 19 used black series on autotrader right now and many new ones.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search...WVz__&systime=
They are not like Honda Accords, but there are 7 of them on ebay right and 19 used ones on autotrader. I think at one point I saw 30 for sale at the same time, (which is more than SL65's). When was the last time you saw a CLK-DTM for sale?
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search...WVz__&systime=
They are not like Honda Accords, but there are 7 of them on ebay right and 19 used ones on autotrader. I think at one point I saw 30 for sale at the same time, (which is more than SL65's). When was the last time you saw a CLK-DTM for sale?
Last edited by Addicted2Speed; 02-22-2008 at 10:05 PM.
#139
Banned
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 1
CLK 63 Black Series, 2009 S550, 2011 Range Rover Supercharged, BMW F800 GS Anniv Edition
#140
Dude, before you tell others how to use it, learn how to use it yourself. Select CLK63 AMG, click on advanced and in Keyword(s) type Black Series. Returns 88 cars and they all look unique. It might be a little off because it says for some dealers there are 8 cars but only 3 exact matches. There may also be some brokers in there but there are still a lot for sale.
Price range is
Range of prices within this search:
Highest Price: $179,990
Lowest Price: $119,900
Average Price: $138,977
So unless regular CLK63s have dramatically increased in price, this is just covering BS cars.
Here is a link if you can't figure it out: BS in Autotrader
Price range is
Range of prices within this search:
Highest Price: $179,990
Lowest Price: $119,900
Average Price: $138,977
So unless regular CLK63s have dramatically increased in price, this is just covering BS cars.
Here is a link if you can't figure it out: BS in Autotrader
Dude...learn how to run a search on autotrader. First of all, if you select body style, COUPE....it doesn't even give you the option to select CLK 63 AMG and there is no BLACK SERIES option at all....
If you look at all Mercedes body styles, then it gives you the option to select CLK 63 AMG. I ran that search just now and got a total of 159 cars that fall into the broad paramater of CLK 63 AMG. Of those 159 cars for sale, most all are CABRIOLETS, and most dealers use the BS as a file photo and say they have 4 in stock....guaranteed they are referring to cabs....not to mention the multiple BS for sale that have no photo or any other information which are clearly brokers...
Autotrader is not a viable or reliable resource to comment on the BS market.
If you look at all Mercedes body styles, then it gives you the option to select CLK 63 AMG. I ran that search just now and got a total of 159 cars that fall into the broad paramater of CLK 63 AMG. Of those 159 cars for sale, most all are CABRIOLETS, and most dealers use the BS as a file photo and say they have 4 in stock....guaranteed they are referring to cabs....not to mention the multiple BS for sale that have no photo or any other information which are clearly brokers...
Autotrader is not a viable or reliable resource to comment on the BS market.
Last edited by SteveL; 02-23-2008 at 12:23 AM.
#142
I Personally Always Felt The Pcar To Be A Dream Car All My Life But Have To Admit The Bs Would Give It A Run For The Money For Me If I Were Shopping For A Car At That Level...but Then Again If I Were Shopping For A Car A A 100k Plus I Would Take A Gt2...on A Side Note The 977tt Is Awd Thus Can Be Driven In The Snow But Can't Imagine That Being To Easy For The Bs...both Are Very Interesting Cars!
#145
There is a huge diff between 79 and 88. I can't believe you actually counted.
#146
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,309
Likes: 86
From: Cave Creek, AZ and Newport Beach
'22 G 63 AMG, '21 GLE 53 AMG, '20 NSX
Nice try. Your embarrassing yourself. Here is your brilliant technique "First of all, if you select body style, COUPE....it doesn't even give you the option to select CLK 63 AMG and there is no BLACK SERIES option at all....". Who just figured out there was a keyword option? Seriously LOL...
There is a huge diff between 79 and 88. I can't believe you actually counted.
There is a huge diff between 79 and 88. I can't believe you actually counted.
#147
Very true. I was simply surprised how many were listed as available. I thought they had pretty much sold out and the only ones I would find were brokers trying to make a profit.
And since LZH is counting autotrader is now reporting 89.
Search Results
We found 89 Mercedes-Benz listings any distance from Saratoga, CA.
And since LZH is counting autotrader is now reporting 89.
Search Results
We found 89 Mercedes-Benz listings any distance from Saratoga, CA.
#148
Was at MBZ of Long Beach, Calif. yesterday. They had a brand-new, never sold CLK63 AMG Black Series in white with a black interior.
The MSRP was $127,000 and the only "option" was Gas Guzzler tax, that's it.
Nice car, but I heard some customers say, "It's still just an overpriced CLK!"
The MSRP was $127,000 and the only "option" was Gas Guzzler tax, that's it.
Nice car, but I heard some customers say, "It's still just an overpriced CLK!"
Last edited by SoCalCLK; 02-23-2008 at 01:32 PM.
#149
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,621
Likes: 54
From: Naperville, IL/Chicago
2008 CLK63 Black Series 2012 C63 Black Series 2014 SLS Black Series
Are you sure about that price? 127K?? I thought they were all the same price, about $139K plus or minus a couple bucks depending on metalic paint or not. I was not aware of any options that would allow the price to flux 12k. Was the $127K MSRP or was that a dealer discounted price?