MACHC5

Being I have both vehicles... I've had thoughts about how a race between the two might come out.

And being they are so different in concept and price. Just where might each car have an edge over the other.

Has anybody raced an EVO yet...?

Link to EVO MR vs. Murcielago (and turn up the volume)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ZWJjC648I

All thoughts welcomed....

chen38

you have the FQ400? or just the regular MR?
if regular stock MR i dont think its even close to being a match?
or are you talking on the track?


* i dont own either or driven either
If i am incorrect plz dont send me to hell

Blacksport350

I built a 400HP Evo IX MR last year for grins as it was the last chance to own a "real Evo". It is a fun machine and a 400HP Evo can turn a great lap time on a road course. I would tend to ay that an FQ400 would own a CLK63 on a tight road course but would get clobbered on the street or a course with long straights. The FQ400 starts slowing down significantly after 100MPH.

MACHC5

It's not a FQ400... but I had taken the time to look into it with the boys from the UK. (Owens Development)

I've enhanced my 2005 EVO MR... for not a lot of money.

Settled on a Buschur 2.3 Stroker with 342 AW-HP to get rid of the Turbo lag and a ROBI suspension system.

Jim Brady

I encountered a tuner built EVO with all the bits and more last November at Willow Springs. I was waiting for my BS having driven it in germany on the track so my observations are based on what I knew the BS could reasonably do on the same track and times others have achieved at the track. That said the Black would best the killer EVO X by a second or two at WSIR.

I love Top Gear, but it's theater, and everyone likes to see David (EVO) kill Goliath (Merci) . The Airfield course that Top gear uses can't be more than 1.7 miles in length which would be ideal for the lighter more nimble EVO. So it's not surprising that the EVO won that one.

I've owned 400 hp 2 liters (WRX) as a play car. Turbo lag is the curse as well as drive line components and transmissions etc. etc.

The track day in question EVO lasted two sessions before blowing all it's oil out on the track. I'd think about the reliability issues with the EVO X.

Jimmy

ProjectC55

I agree with you on everything you're saying,however I beg to differ with you on the part of your post I highlighted. Unless that is perhaps you r just talking about the FQ400 which is a nice example of a modded EVO but certainly not one of the fastest.
But I would not sleep on the BS on the track.

ProjectC55

Tuning or too much boost could have been the issue. Not saying they r the most reliable cars after heavy modding ,but there sure are a whole hell of alot that rally race which speaks for something!

ProjectC55

With the 2.3L stroker ,I'm surprised you only settled for 342AW-HP. Interesting!

MACHC5

The track day in question EVO lasted two sessions before blowing all it's oil out on the track. I'd think about the reliability issues with the EVO X.

Jimmy[/QUOTE]

Jimmy,

"Been there, got the T-shirt"

I blew the stock motor it's first time at Watkins Glen.
Came up thru the S's and just before the bus stop it let loose.

After the 110 mph oil down on the rear tires I managed to get it slowed and coasted it to a stop in the straight thru, in the middle of the bus stop.

Jim, after the 110 mph thrill ride I went a searching for the best EVO engine builder. Shipped the car to Ohio's David Buschur at Buschur Racing and have been happy since. My ride is an EVO 8 old model MR

Best Regards,
Jim

MACHC5

What I found was the big Turbo's are light switches either OFF 50 hp or ON 550 hp so we installed a GT3071 w/272 HKS cams...

After some testing we found the above Turbo/Cam combo gives great roll-in throttle control and doesn't stress the Stage 3 motor build.

ProjectC55

Jim what turbo and mods do /did you have?

I'm about to drop a built 2.0L with .20 overbore 9.0:1cp Ross pistons and Crower rods in my Talon. By the way Dave is certainly one of the best out there. Got my motor built by Darren at www.ffwdconnection.com .Nice EVO and DSM race motors.

ProjectC55

Well that depends alot on the type of turbine housing you were using,(divided Twin Scroll or straight regular turbine housing) and the exhaust manifold you were using as well(mani built for a twin scroll setup).
Many are going away from the traditional turbine housing setups on these ball bearing Garretts. I'm gonna send you a link of an example of what I am talking about since it would take forever to explain. This is a very good link here:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=312126

MACHC5

Thanks for the Link.
That's the Forum that helped me find Buschur Racing

My GT3071 is a Dave Buschur configured unit with his Ni-cast manifold.

I drove Dave's personal 10 sec EVO when there while I described to him what I wanted in a motor combo.

ProjectC55

Dave is good people,I met him back in 1996 at Atco and I've been to his place over in OHIO back in 1997 for the DSM/VR4 meet at Norfolk. This is just after he was really taking off business wise. We were trading parts with each other when he owned his first gen back in 96. I had just bought a brand new 96 2g FWD.

Anyway the new trend now and biggest thing as you can see is using a twin scroll exh housing in combo with a Twin scroll divided mani on these big turbo's to help with spool.

It will combine the runners from pistons 1 and 4 together and on the other side of the divided output flange would be runners from pistons 2&3 together.
This setup has been documented and shown on dyno's to give these big turbo's the spool of STOCK turbo's and the tremendous topend of a big turbo provided you use a big A/R turbine hsing.

I am wrking on a project on my Talon as well.I am dying to terrorize some of these E60 M5's and other exotics in the straights over here.

That goes for some of my beloved AMG owners as well.

Hopefully she'll(Talon in sig)will be ready with here rebirth in mid April.
She's getting the wrks.

l3iGD

where in OH?

MACHC5

WAKEMAN, OHIO

ProjectC55

I put Norfolk when I meant Norwalk Ohio. That's atleast where the race track was located.

norb

Stock for stock, the CLKBS would own the Evo. But then again its a quarter of the price.

ProjectC55

IN a straight line that's obvious but what info do you have stck for stck on a road course?

norb

7:45* -- 159.48 km/h -- Mercedes CLK 63 AMG Black Series, 507 PS/1760 kg (*mfr.) according to http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...ck-series.html
7:45* -- 159.48 km/h -- McLaren F1, *estimated lap time from a video available at www.pistonheads.tv
7:45*-- 159.48 km/h -- Porsche 997 GT3 RS, 415 PS/ 1424 kg, works driver Walter Roehrl, *mfr.
7:46 --- 159.14 km/h -- Jaguar XJ220, John Walton (EVO magzine 07/00), www.jwhubbers.nl/ring/docs/evo-0007-7.jpg
7:46 --- 159.14 km/h -- Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera, 522 PS/1528 kg (sport auto 09/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=2&tID=137437
7:46 --- 159.14 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT2, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/01)
7:46 --- 159.14 km/h -- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (sport auto 99)
7:46.29 159.14 km/h -- Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera, 522 PS/1500 kg (Auto Italy 09/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=2&tID=136632
7:47 --- 158.80 km/h –- Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano, 620 PS/1805 kg (sport auto 01/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=2&tID=134701
7:47 --- 158.80 km/h –- Lamborghini Murcielago LP640, 640 PS/1748 kg (sport auto 08/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=2&tID=111663
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73dNW...e=user&search=
7:47* -- 158.80 km/h -- Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/ 1440 kg, works driver Walter Roehrl, *mfr.
7:48 --- 158.46 km/h -- Porsche 997 GT3 RS, 415 PS/1424 kg (sport auto 03/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=2&tID=120285
7:48 --- 158.46 km/h -- Porsche 997 GT3, 415 PS/1440kg (sport auto 07/06) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=2&tID=91836
7:49 --- 158.12 km/h -- Corvette Z06, 512 PS/1440 kg (sport auto 06/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=0&tID=129099
www.youtube.com/watch?v=62WfAYRcaHI
7:49 --- 158.12 km/h –- BMW X5 Le Mans, 700 PS/~2000 kg, Hans-Joachim Stuck
7.49 --- 158.12 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3, 392 PS (AutoBild 2004)
7:49 --- 158.12 km/h -- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup, 360 PS/1207 kg (sport auto 02/99)
7:49.72 157.89 km/h -- Honda RC30, Helmut Daehne (93) (moto bike)
7:50 --- 157.79 km/h -- BMW E46 M3 CSL, 360 PS/1421 kg (sport auto 08/03)
7:50 --- 157.79 km/h -- Lamborghini Murcielago, 462 PS/1450 kg (sport auto 06/02)
7:50 --- 157.79 km/h -- Nissan GT-R, 480 PS/1750 kg, Hrst von Saurma, partially wet track (sport auto 12/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=1&tID=145737
7:50 --- 157.79 km/h -- Westfield Super 7 with Hayabusa engine,
7:52 --- 157.12 km/h –- Ford GT, 550 PS/1599 kg (sport auto 02/06)
7:52 --- 157.12 km/h -- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (sport auto 95)
7:52 --- 157.12 km/h -- Lamborghini Gallardo E-gear, 493 PS/1496 kg (sport auto 12/03)
7:52 --- 157.12 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SLR McLaren (sport auto 06/04)
7:54 --- 156.46 km/h -- Mercedes CLK DTM AMG, 582 PS/1678kg, (sport auto 03/05) http://www.sportauto-online.de/test_...0696_14469.hbs
7:54 --- 156.46 km/h -- Porsche 997 Turbo, 480 PS/1620 kg (sport auto 06/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=2&tID=126501
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPvBu...e=user&search=
7:54 --- 156.46 km/h -- Porsche 993 GT3, 360 PS/1380 kg (sport auto 06/03)
7:55* -- 156.13 km/h -- Aston Martin V8 Vantage N24, 385 PS/1350 kg (race car, not street-legal)(*mfr.)
7:55 --- 156.13 km/h -- Caterham R500 Superlight, Robert Nearn (EVO magazine 07/00)
7:55 --- 156.13 km/h – Ferrari F430 F1, 490 PS/1493 kg (sport auto 01/06) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...ID=2&tID=67305
7:55 --- 156.17 km/h -- Nissan GT-R, 473 PS/1724 kg http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl.../71017001/1065
7:56 --- 155.80 km/h -- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale, 425 PS/1387 kg (sport auto 02/04)
7:56 --- 155.80 km/h -- Porsche 996 Turbo, 420 PS/1569 kg (sport auto 06/00)
7:56* - 155.80 km/h -- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 ,company chief engineer Dave Hill (*mfr.)
7:56.50 155.60 km/h -- Mercedes CLK DTM AMG, 582 PS/1678kg, Klaus Ludwig (AutoBild 02/06)
7:56.65 155.57 km/h – Lamborghini Gallardo SE, 520 PS/1560 kg, Tom Kristensen (AutoBild 02/06)
7:56.73* 155.57 km/h Honda NSX-R (*Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion", lap not complete)
7:57 --- 155.48 km/h -- AC Schnitzer Tension, 552 PS/1797 kg (sport auto 04/07), http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=1&tID=123445
7:57 --- 155.47 km/h -- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600 PS/1558 kg (sport auto 05/98)
7:58 --- 156.66 km/h -- Audi RS4 4.2 V8 FSI, 420 PS/ 1650 kg, Frank Stippler, (10/05) http://www.8200rpm.com/forum/read.ph...16841&t=16841\
7:59 --- 154.82 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Performance”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 2004)
7:59* -- 154.82 km/h -- Chevrolet C6 Z51, company test driver Dave Hill (*mfr.)
7:59* -- 154.82 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R (*free of the speed limiter standard on UK versions, so it was discounted)
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/228511/
7:59.41 154.69 km/h -- Subaru Impreza WRX STi spec.C "prototype" (2004), www.subaru.com.hk/pdf/SNW0404.pdf

8:01.72 153.98 km/h -- Nissan Skyline R33 GT-R, (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:01.84 153.98 km/h -- Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder, 520 PS/1760 kg, http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen...rtikel_seite=1
8:02 --- 153.86 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM setting “Sport”, (Walter Roehrl WHEELS 06/ 04)
8:03 --- 153.54 km/h – Aston Martin V8 Vantage, 385 PS/1636 kg, Pirelli P Zero Corsa (sport auto 10/05)
8:03 --- 153.54 km/h -- Porsche 911 GT3, 360 PS/1391 kg (sport auto 08/99)
8:04 --- 153.22 km/h -- Audi R8, 420 PS/1595 kg (sport auto 07/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=2&tID=133046
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCTb6...e=user&search=
8:03.86 153.52 km/h -- Honda NSX http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ua_wcOnPkxk
8:04 --- 153.22 km/h -- Lamborghini Diablo GT, 575 PS/1620 kg (sport auto 07/00)
8:05 --- 152.91 km/h -- BMW M3, 420 PS/1608 kg (sport auto 12/07) http://www.supercars.net/PitLane?vie...D=2&tID=145617
8:05 --- 152.91 km/h -- Ferrari 575M Maranello F1, 580 PS/1820 kg (sport auto 12/02)
8:05 --- 152.91 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, PASM settino “Standard”, Walter Roehrl (WHEELS 06/04)
8:05 --- 152.91 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355PS/1461kg (sport auto 05/05),
8:05 --- 152.91 km/h -- Ruf CTR, http://www.lad.lv/~martini/porsche/V...rburgring1.wmv
8:06 --- 152.59 km/h -- Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG (sport auto 04/02)
8:06.01 152.59 km/h -- Subaru WRX Sti C-spec (Best Motoring video "Carrera Invasion")
8:06.2 - 152.59 km/h -- Caterham Superlight R http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/228511/
8:07 --- 152.28 km/h -- Ferrari 550 Maranello, 485 PS/1724 kg (sport auto 06/98)
8:07.76 152.04 km/h -- BMW M6, 507 PS/1761 kg, Prinz Luitpold von Bayern (AutoBild 02/06)
8:08.62 151.77 km/h -- HGP Golf R32 Turbo Stufe 3, 495 PS/1660 kg, http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen...tikel_id=14071
8:08.73 151.88 km/h -- Porsche 993 Turbo http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ua_wcOnPkxk
8:09 --- 151.66 km/h – Audi RS4, 420 PS/1728 kg (sport auto 06/06)
8:09 --- 151.66 km/h -- BMW M6, 507 PS/1761 kg (sport auto 12/05)
8:09 --- 151.66 km/h -- Honda NSX-R, 320 PS/1467 kg (sport auto 08/02)
8:09 --- 151.66 km/h -- Ferrari 360 Modena , 400 PS/1464 kg (sport auto 10/99)
8:09 --- 151.66 km/h -- Lamborghini Diablo SV, 520 PS/1590 kg (sport auto 12/97)
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h -- Aston Martin V8 Vantage (Top Gear 02/05)
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h -- Chrysler Viper GTS, 411 PS/1567 kg (sport auto 10/97)
8:10 --- 151.35 km/h -- Donkervoort D8 180R, 210 PS/650 kg (sport auto 03/01)
8:10.75 151.27 km/h -- Subaru Impreza WRX STi Version III sedan (1996), www.subaru.com.hk/pdf/SNW0404.pdf
8:11 --- 151,27 km/h -- Mitsubishi Lancer EVO IX (Best Motoring video 14)

ProjectC55

Which track is that? if it's a track with some straights of course I can see the CLK BS reigning over it. HP and TQ with long straights helps pick an obvious winner.


Let's pic an obvious course with Killer turns,hills and bends.

However for the CLK black on this track you show,Impressive!!!

Jim Brady

Ahhh, it's "THE TRACK" Nurburgring Nordschleife, sorry my computer doesn't have an umlaute. I think it has all of the above.

johno530

I own a Black, and I like seeing that 7:45 at the Nurburgring just as much as anybody. But, it has that asterisk next to it (that my son keeps pointing out). If you read the C/D article that is referenced, the only place the 7:45 comes up is where it says: “The lap times? Below eight minutes for sure, with Mercedes officials suggesting as quick as 7:45.” That doesn’t sound very official. Also, the article is about C/D running the BS at the ‘Ring, but they don’t put up any of their lap times. There is a video of one of their runs – which according to the timer on the video player is about 8:02 – but it’s obviously not a run for time as the camera guy is in the car.

MikeRPA

regular evo mr's are slow as hell on the highway , but from a stop and on the track they are good , they are a little faster on the highway than 06 6 speed g coupe , From a dig they're animals

Jim Brady

I was on a tour at Affalterbach and that question came up. Offical response was 'CLK 63 Black turns under 7:50 and some of our test drivers like Bernd Schneider have gone faster." But that's AMG, they tend to understate.