Black Series compared to my other cars ...
10-29-2008, 09:56 AM
#26
MBWorld Fanatic!
I've tracked my Stradale but never tracked the BS. I plan to take it on track next month to see how it does. I will keep you posted.
The Stradale is a very capable track car as far as a street car is concerned. It's obviously not a purpose built race car but it does a very admirable job when placed in that environment.
I don't expect as much from the BS. If nothing else it weights 1000lbs more than the Stradale. Power alone can't compensate for cornering loads, braking, etc. However, I might be pleasantly surprised. Only time will tell.
The Stradale is a very capable track car as far as a street car is concerned. It's obviously not a purpose built race car but it does a very admirable job when placed in that environment.
I don't expect as much from the BS. If nothing else it weights 1000lbs more than the Stradale. Power alone can't compensate for cornering loads, braking, etc. However, I might be pleasantly surprised. Only time will tell.
10-29-2008, 10:34 AM
#27
Chuck~
I'm flattered (I think!?!?!?!)
I must say I read this guy's post and thought it does have a certain "Prince of Darkness" aura to it. But alas, it is not me. Probably just another finance geek, a guy in the car biz.... or maybe even a guy who reads the Wall Street Journal and saw the cover story today about a record # of dealers going out of business.
I stand by my original economic thesis that I shared with you (and others on this board via PM's). I believe I will acquire one at the price we discussed by the end of the year, but in the interim I am seeing too many other exciting opportunities to deploy capital thanks to these crazy markets.
Fortunately, it appears you have the financial stability to keep your BS in the garage and continue to enjoy it. The unfortunate reality is that others with Black Series, Ferraris, Porsches (______ fill in the blank) don't and they will set the market for the rest of us as they de-lever.
Out where I live in Orange County, we refer to it as "all flash, no cash".
And if you still think this other guy is me posting under an alias, have the admin check the IP address and compare it to mine. I'll bet you any bottle of California cabernet that you want that there is still only one Prince of Darkness (sorry - inside joke with Chuck!!
)
I'm flattered (I think!?!?!?!)
I must say I read this guy's post and thought it does have a certain "Prince of Darkness" aura to it. But alas, it is not me. Probably just another finance geek, a guy in the car biz.... or maybe even a guy who reads the Wall Street Journal and saw the cover story today about a record # of dealers going out of business.
I stand by my original economic thesis that I shared with you (and others on this board via PM's). I believe I will acquire one at the price we discussed by the end of the year, but in the interim I am seeing too many other exciting opportunities to deploy capital thanks to these crazy markets.
Fortunately, it appears you have the financial stability to keep your BS in the garage and continue to enjoy it. The unfortunate reality is that others with Black Series, Ferraris, Porsches (______ fill in the blank) don't and they will set the market for the rest of us as they de-lever.
Out where I live in Orange County, we refer to it as "all flash, no cash".
And if you still think this other guy is me posting under an alias, have the admin check the IP address and compare it to mine. I'll bet you any bottle of California cabernet that you want that there is still only one Prince of Darkness (sorry - inside joke with Chuck!!
) Rob, you have a new name..... PoD!
Got your PM, explains a lot about why I thought it was you. Green789 did contact me about my car..... although his tone was completely different and his number seems to have gone down quite a bit from a couple weeks ago (to where yours wa$). Hope neither of you took association as an insult? Sorry for the temporary highjack on Tipo815's thread. Carry on....
10-29-2008, 01:08 PM
#29
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Hey guys, I know three cars that have traded hands the last few days, one at $82k one at $85k, and one at $85,700. Some of you may have heard that the markets have been a little volatile recently. New car sales are tanking, resales are diving, and banks AREN'T LENDING MONEY TO BUYERS! Wake up, and smell the coffee. Remember, asking prices are a whole different ball of wax then selling prices.
I am waiting another month to buy mine in the 70's. Sure they are rare and unique, but guess what, people with cash are now rare and unique!
I am waiting another month to buy mine in the 70's. Sure they are rare and unique, but guess what, people with cash are now rare and unique!
Last edited by Tipo815; 10-29-2008 at 01:20 PM.
10-29-2008, 01:08 PM
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Chuck baby, I like this Rob guy, we obviously share the same views. If you were looking to dump your BS, you should have jumped on the mid 90's offer! I promise you they are not going up, and you could have bought your car back in a 60 days for 15-20k less.
But don't feel bad, I just sold an Aston (V8 Vantage) that I had for barely a year, and took a 28k bath on it. I have owned a bunch of cars, and rarely (read accidently) made money. It's the price we pay to play, but why not buy as low as we can?!
I agree with Rob, dealers are crashing, market is softening, and I am buying a BS for less than 80k....
But don't feel bad, I just sold an Aston (V8 Vantage) that I had for barely a year, and took a 28k bath on it. I have owned a bunch of cars, and rarely (read accidently) made money. It's the price we pay to play, but why not buy as low as we can?!
I agree with Rob, dealers are crashing, market is softening, and I am buying a BS for less than 80k....
10-29-2008, 01:11 PM
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Hummer H1
The market is trending down. Look at the auction results, graph them month versus price, use as many cars for comps as you want.... Then see what the prices are doing. Hey, it will shallow out of course at some point, but who knows that number. It WILL be below 80k.
10-29-2008, 01:14 PM
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And as for definining a market, the market IS what the last car sold for. Being in the housing business (hence my time to irritate you poor guys on car prices) I can tell you that it doesn't matter if you sold 39 homes at 300k, and the 40th sold for 250k, what do you think the 41st should sell for?.....
In these times, unfortunately, the low side does reflect the market, and it continues to weaken. TIPO, enjoy your car, it's gorgeous, and it doesn't matter what you paid because I know you won't sell it soon anyways...
In these times, unfortunately, the low side does reflect the market, and it continues to weaken. TIPO, enjoy your car, it's gorgeous, and it doesn't matter what you paid because I know you won't sell it soon anyways...
10-29-2008, 01:19 PM
#33
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10-29-2008, 01:24 PM
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10-29-2008, 01:36 PM
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2008 CLK BS
It's heading to Simon at Evosport for some minor mods. Nothing too drastic.
Last edited by Tipo815; 10-29-2008 at 01:38 PM.
10-29-2008, 02:44 PM
#37
And as for definining a market, the market IS what the last car sold for. Being in the housing business (hence my time to irritate you poor guys on car prices) I can tell you that it doesn't matter if you sold 39 homes at 300k, and the 40th sold for 250k, what do you think the 41st should sell for?.....
In these times, unfortunately, the low side does reflect the market, and it continues to weaken. TIPO, enjoy your car, it's gorgeous, and it doesn't matter what you paid because I know you won't sell it soon anyways...
In these times, unfortunately, the low side does reflect the market, and it continues to weaken. TIPO, enjoy your car, it's gorgeous, and it doesn't matter what you paid because I know you won't sell it soon anyways...
10-29-2008, 02:51 PM
#38
Chuck baby, I like this Rob guy, we obviously share the same views. If you were looking to dump your BS, you should have jumped on the mid 90's offer! I promise you they are not going up, and you could have bought your car back in a 60 days for 15-20k less.
But don't feel bad, I just sold an Aston (V8 Vantage) that I had for barely a year, and took a 28k bath on it. I have owned a bunch of cars, and rarely (read accidently) made money. It's the price we pay to play, but why not buy as low as we can?!
I agree with Rob, dealers are crashing, market is softening, and I am buying a BS for less than 80k....
But don't feel bad, I just sold an Aston (V8 Vantage) that I had for barely a year, and took a 28k bath on it. I have owned a bunch of cars, and rarely (read accidently) made money. It's the price we pay to play, but why not buy as low as we can?!
I agree with Rob, dealers are crashing, market is softening, and I am buying a BS for less than 80k....
Perhaps more should do the same??? I'm confused about who is who here? Rob, Jeffrey and you? Rob knows Jeffrey, Rob says he knows you (in a PM) and you make it sound like you don't know Rob.......
10-29-2008, 03:02 PM
#39
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As for Simon and Evosport - the mods are all suspension/handling related.
Last edited by Tipo815; 10-29-2008 at 03:09 PM.
10-29-2008, 03:08 PM
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I disagree with you on this one. Unlike the housing market, prices buyers actually pay for cars are not readily available to the average "Joe" so the last car sold does NOT necessarily set the market for all future sales. Asking prices are more accurate reflection of where the market is headed. Most car buyers do not have access to wholesale cars or what the last car sold for.
Rob is a good friend of mine. I bought a Stradale from him almost three years ago. He has expressed an interest in acquiring my BS when I get sick of it. He thought I would probably keep it for a few months and tire of it. Unfortunately ... it appears that AMG has built a superb machine which has exceeded my expectations. Parting with it is the last thing I am thinking about doing right now.
Last edited by Tipo815; 10-29-2008 at 03:11 PM.
10-29-2008, 03:08 PM
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2012 CLS63, 2009 Scud, 1978 930 Turbo
Now I'm confused!!!! Wolfturbo is Rob (aka Prince of Darkness). Tipo is Jeffrey. Not sure who Green is but really don't care, unless he's somebody I PM'd about prices in the past under a different name.
Could be a troll, could be legit but seems to be a bear on prices.
For the record, I'm not bearish on just the BS prices, I'm bearish on all high end toys as inventories stack up, dealers lose their flooring lines and banks quit financing buyers. Anybody remember that movie about the really, really big wave???? Oh yeah, it was called the "Perfect Storm"
Could be a troll, could be legit but seems to be a bear on prices.
For the record, I'm not bearish on just the BS prices, I'm bearish on all high end toys as inventories stack up, dealers lose their flooring lines and banks quit financing buyers. Anybody remember that movie about the really, really big wave???? Oh yeah, it was called the "Perfect Storm"
10-29-2008, 03:09 PM
#42
Rob - I might decide to hold onto this one for a while and suspect you will come across a deal long before I decide to part with it. It is a stupendous piece of engineering that has exceeded my expectations thus far. I'd have to say that I'd probably part with one of my two Stradales before saying goodbye to the BS!
10-29-2008, 03:30 PM
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I disagree with you on this one. Unlike the housing market, prices buyers actually pay for cars are not readily available to the average "Joe" so the last car sold does NOT necessarily set the market for all future sales. Asking prices are more accurate reflection of where the market is headed. Most car buyers do not have access to wholesale cars or what the last car sold for.
10-29-2008, 03:33 PM
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Chuck - I agree with you on this one. There ARE isolated deals on cars and I don't believe one or two "low ball" sales truly reflect the market. Wholesale is also not readily available to the market as a whole as you indicated.
Rob is a good friend of mine. I bought a Stradale from him almost three years ago. He has expressed an interest in acquiring my BS when I get sick of it. He thought I would probably keep it for a few months and tire of it. Unfortunately ... it appears that AMG has built a superb machine which has exceeded my expectations. Parting with it is the last thing I am thinking about doing right now.
Rob is a good friend of mine. I bought a Stradale from him almost three years ago. He has expressed an interest in acquiring my BS when I get sick of it. He thought I would probably keep it for a few months and tire of it. Unfortunately ... it appears that AMG has built a superb machine which has exceeded my expectations. Parting with it is the last thing I am thinking about doing right now.
A "few lowball" sales, do set the trend for a market. I agree, some grandma sells her dead husbands car for half of market, that is an uninformed isolated event. But when a few people start selling low....watch out boys!
10-29-2008, 03:49 PM
#45
Asking prices do NOT determine the market! I can ask for a million dollars for an old chevy truck, but this does not mean it's worth that. Selling prices determine the market, because a market is a "willing buyer, and willing seller", asking prices just don't figure in. That's like saying "offering prices determine the market". So if I offer you a dollar for a BS, according to your logic, that is the market?
10-29-2008, 04:53 PM
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According to my logic? What somebody offers has nothing to do with anything. I didn't say asking prices "determine" the market I said asking prices "reflect" the market. Legitamate asking prices are a pretty good reflection of where the market is heading. I agree that selling prices ultimately determine the market over the long run, my point is/was there is no credible source for reporting or recording selling prices on cars like there is for real estate. Therefore, the last sale does NOT necessarily determine the market value of any car. In most cases who ever really knows what a car sold for unless it gets posted on a forum such as this and then who really knows if its true or not? NADA, KBB and others are pretty much worthless. You're looking to buy, can't fault you for working the deal......
My point being, you talk to a friend or two who has bought a car in the last week or two (these days the market is very dynamic, no one can argue that) and that is a great indication of the market. Everyone on this conversation is a car savvy person, and we all have friends who have purchased a BS. If your friend bought one three months ago, and another bought on last week, I'd pay attention to the price last week...
10-29-2008, 05:00 PM
#47
The market has gone way down now...... New market on the BS has been established!
..... I know, it's a bogus ad. Probably the same person who had my car on ebay this morning for $85k?
..... I know, it's a bogus ad. Probably the same person who had my car on ebay this morning for $85k?
10-29-2008, 05:10 PM
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2012 CLS63, 2009 Scud, 1978 930 Turbo
Would this be a bad time for me to say I just ground that seller down to
$56K?!?!?!?!
Wishful thinking even for the Prince of Darkness!!!!
Like Jeffrey said, I hope more people will keep chiming in here. This is the most fun I have ever had on this board!
$56K?!?!?!?!
Wishful thinking even for the Prince of Darkness!!!!
Like Jeffrey said, I hope more people will keep chiming in here. This is the most fun I have ever had on this board!
10-29-2008, 05:11 PM
#49
Exactly my point Chuck, what someone offers, has as little to do with the market as asking prices. Look at H1's, they are many advertised at 50k, that you can buy at 35k. So is the market 50 or 35? If you answered 35k, you are correct. Now, if someone offers 20k, what is the market? If you answered 35k, you are still correct!
My point being, you talk to a friend or two who has bought a car in the last week or two (these days the market is very dynamic, no one can argue that) and that is a great indication of the market. Everyone on this conversation is a car savvy person, and we all have friends who have purchased a BS. If your friend bought one three months ago, and another bought on last week, I'd pay attention to the price last week...
My point being, you talk to a friend or two who has bought a car in the last week or two (these days the market is very dynamic, no one can argue that) and that is a great indication of the market. Everyone on this conversation is a car savvy person, and we all have friends who have purchased a BS. If your friend bought one three months ago, and another bought on last week, I'd pay attention to the price last week...
10-29-2008, 05:12 PM
#50
