Green789

I think people interested in buying would know someone who owns one, or at least talk to someone who knows. Or do you base all your purchases on sticker price? You can't bash all Ferrari's, the Stradales were limited production, only 350 for the US, so it's market could be compared (exclusivity wise) to the BS. I have talked to people, and know what they are paying, and I told you in a previous post. Go back up and look. Now for your benefit, I WILL add, that I heard of one sale at 110k a little while back.

Anyone out there who wants to pay me a finder's fee, I can find you a BS for less than 90k.

user z478747

not buying this at all............
wasn't bashing f cars, are the Stradales selling for what they were 6 mos ago? Doubt it, I don't know, I don't follow f cars. All ~300 BS owners know someone who has one or consulted someone who has one....????? Doubt that too. I didn't, made the decision on my own after I did my own research..... Exactly how many people have you talked to (passed on the "sky is falling" prognostication?) about prices? It's such a small maket with only 350 cars, you might have talked to me (who knows who you were then....) and you were probably one of the jokers offering $75k, $20k below legit offers..... Sorry but I'm not buying any of it......

Green789

Actually Stradales have held up in value. I sold mine over a year ago, market was mid 180's, and they are still there. So, how do you buy cars then Chuck? Just go offer sticker? How do you determine the value/price? Roll dice? I am just curious... What do you research?

Read the facts about the auto industry, luxury car market, auto financing, even Ferrari talking about tough times! It's not a person/people saying "the sky is falling", it's all of us watching pieces of it hit the ground...

Hey, I tell you what Chuck. Let's put our money where our talk is. If you can commit 90k to me, hell, even 88k, how about I buy one for you, and you can turn it for 100k, mid 90's, whatever, and make some money!?

user z478747

Why would I feel the need to do that, I've already got one?????? How bout you? I've had serious reasonable offers on my car, you haven't bought one for your numbers......

I do probably the same sort of research you do (well except for posting how *****ty the market on the car is in an effort to get somebody to bite or influence such a small market)? I look for the best available information about what cars are actually selling for. Asking prices, how long the particular car has been available, solds on eBay, call on cars I'm interested in, how do you do it?? In the past 16 years, I've bought and sold over 50 cars so I'm definitely not a rookie at this. Not sure about you but sounds like you believe a lot of what you read, maybe even spread the bad word? What good would a story be if its not sensational projecting gloom and doom? Frankly, I don't see things quite as bad as you do.

I've already got a BS, you're looking to beat somebody out of one. Why would I expect your opinion to be different than any other buyers opinion? I got a lot of email when mine was on ebay and they all started with the same statement; something to the effect of how much these cars are depreciating or how bad the economy is..... Blah, blah, blah.... I can't blame you or anyone else for that approach, I've said the same things to sellers about the POS they're selling (well perhaps with a bit more tact than you present here?) when I'm buying a car?

The better question might be; IF after you finally get one what will your story be? Will you keep up the BS about the BS?

Green789

I would have one, but I can't afford to over-pay as much as you did!

I talk to guys, see who has bought the car, what they think, what they paid... I, like you, have bought and sold a bunch of cars, Ferrari's, Lamborghinis, Astons, Porsches, Hummers, even Corvettes and Vipers...even Ducati's and MV's. I can always find someone who owns one, and if not, I talk to the owner of what I am looking at!

I hate to break the bad news my friend, i will gently pull your head from the sand. The auto industry is tanking, Kirk Kerkorian himself losing billions between Crysler and Ford. GM selling it's huge office complex.... Stock market suffering, oil falling, housing at all time lows, foreign banks setting aside over 3 trillion, US infusing 700 billion.... It's not plush times my friend. There are always those that money doesn't matter, but most of them don't seem interested in cars (thank god.) The Black Series should be called the "Black Sheep" (maybe I will start something there) because it's the answer to the question never asked. No one gets it. Except a smart few like the people here.

I don't "beat people" out of cars. It's not my style, honesty is. When a car is strong, I have been the first person to admit 'yeah, the market is hot, you will get top dollar', and I have paid it. But just because you already own one, doesn't mean you didn't over-pay, and doesn't mean you aren't going to have a really cool 75k car in six weeks. Hey, if they stabilized at 100k and were not dropping, I'd pay that for the car. It's worth it. But the FACTS are that the market is dropping on these bella machines. I am sorry my friend.

Promise you all this, WHEN i buy one, I will tell you all in honest what I paid. Because even if the market does continue to drop after, I will have pulled the trigger at a value I am content with. And we don't buy these things to make money anyways....

user z478747

Can't afford to over pay. that's funny... I've had mine for a while (since April 2008) and paid $116k for it. At the time that was below the market. Enjoyed the hell out of it too and still enjoying today. Those waiting for a lower price can't say that. When is low enough low enough? I didn't buy mine thinking I'd make money on it either.

Honestly, I feel MBZ over priced this car and realistically it should have been priced new at ~$110k. Then as you rightfully point out the economy took a dump and that $138k MSRP seemed really unrealistic. If MBZ had a more realistic MSRP when it came out we might not be having this conversation or at least not as enthusiastic of a conversation.

Seriously, I wish you the best of luck buying one, I promise when/if you get one it will put a smile on your face every time you fire it up.

Later Rob....

wolfturbo

Wow, I think this has officially evolved into the definition of a hijacked thread.

I hang out mostly on the Porsche and Ferrari boards, and the only guys here who know me are either people who frequent those boards or people who have cars (BS) that I have tried to buy.

And much to my chagrin, those people are starting to PM me and say, hey dude, you're Green789 right??? Fess up.

For the record AGAIN, I am not Green789. And I would also suggest that everyone chill a bit on the price topic.

I have made my opinion known that I think these prices are declining. Did people who bought these cars at $130K overpay? Yes, but BFD! I overpaid on some closed-end bond funds I bought earlier this month. I'm willing to bet that each of you who overpaid (or bought early!) for these cars have had more fun driving them for the last year than I have had watching my *#$&$%^@* bonds go down in value for the last month.

Right now EVERY hard asset I am aware of (cars, boats, planes, real estate or otherwise) is going down. Nothing unique about these cars.

If they get to my purchase price I will buy one. If not, I will continue to get by with my GT2 and E55 and consider myself fortunate.

Peace to all. I'm off to watch the Lakers play - no beating up on sellers for me tonight!

bagelsjustbagel

what do u work as/major in for college??
i dont weant to come of rude, but im still un highschool and want to be successful.. like you, and need sum advice on careers that can take me that route

Tipo815

I've been asked this question quite a bit and there is no definitive answer. I can tell you that education, hard work, determination, etc. are all contributing factors but these alone don't guarantee success nor wealth. I know very successful people who never went to college and MBA graduates who have never achieved real success. The one piece of advice I can offer you is to try to associate with smart and intelligent people early on in your career. They can mentor you and give you guidance that can be very helpful as you start out in life.

jrcart

Good topic, my friends and I often ponder this very subject of education vs income. There is a pretty tight knit group of us, 6 of us, with educations ranging from a high school drop to a guy with 2 two masters working on Doc and everything in between. I personally have a H.S. Dipolma and one year of trade school (automotive paint and body), yep I painted cars in my early 20's. Does any one want to guess which guy makes the most money? Hint, It's not me, I'm second on the list. The H.S. dropout makes the most, his paper recycling company does about $16 million a year and he pays himself $1.5-$2 million a year. Anyone want to guess where the guy with the 2 masters sits on the list? He is fifth, he makes just under $100k a year, not a bad income, but for the $200k he has spent on his education over the years it seems a bit counter productive. There is one guy with a H.S. education and 1.5 years at a community college (no degree) that makes well over $125k.

We sumise that an education can only take you so far, unless of course we are talking about medical doctors and attorneys. A balance of book smarts, street smarts and plain old good common sense along with drive and ambition are the charecteristics you will find most financially successful people. There are a lot of VERY wealthy people out there that don't have major formal educations, but there are not too many wealthy people out there that are lazy or un-driven.

Doctodd33

i think you had a chance to make an impact in someone's life.....many lives....and you could have made a better impact by supporting education a bit more. I can see how someone will read what you said and say "great i dont need to go to school." Alot of people think they work hard or can work hard, but really dont.

DFW01E55

Well said.
Add to that the idea that college is the best time of your life and why would you want to short change that experience?

In the end, how many people can be a Bill Gates, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Dell, Larry Ellison, Paul Allen?

Even if your goal is 1% (yes, one per cent) of what they make per year, it will be harder without a degree.

jrcart

The people that take that from my comments are the same people that are gonna be flipping burgers at McDonalds when they are 40 for near minimum wage. This is where the common sense part comes in, nowhere in my post did I even hint at not supporting a higher eduaction. All I stated was that it is not the only factor in being financial successful. If anything I think my comments might give hope to those that for whatever reasons did not/could not get a higher education. There are people out there that don't qualify for grants, assistance or scholarships and can't afford college, masters degrees and such. There are a lot scenerios in which a person can not attend college here are just a few, teen pregnancy, health issues, being in the military, financial burdens, geographic location, not too many Universities in rural North Dakota.

This thread just went way off topic...I'm done

Brav

Congrats Jeffrey - We will see how she chalks up to Noble and Z06 in a few weeks

Doctodd33

i didnt mean to sound like i was bashing you.....but one guy specifically asked the question.....not "people" or "those that for whatever reasons did not/could not".....that's all im saying. I did get the positive of your message and hope others do too.

Jim Brady

Fess up Rob you just like doing a deal. The car is secondary and that's not a bad thing. It's the trophy of doing what you do well. How many cars have you had since i've know you...25?

Most of the BS owners I've met have owned the gamet of performance cars.
YOU want one, I know you, YOU drove it, you are conflicted.
YOU could buy it but it would break your rule of crushing some guy because he was holding too much AIG stock. Remember at C&C There's always a crowd around the BS, the porsche..Nada.
Jimmy

Tipo815

You know Rob well! He'll definitely own one sooner rather than later. It's not a matter of IF so much as a matter of WHEN! If the deal is right - either by chance or after someone has endured a crushing blow from him - he'll own it. All this being said - I'm sort of the kettle calling the pot black. I'm not unlike Rob in this respect!

Green789

Hey Chuck! I am back... This is Joe, not Rob. You raise a good point though, what is low enough?....I think anything that starts with a 7 will be in the money. I would probably pay 5k more for a car close to new, versus one with even only a few thousand... I expect they will eventually be 60-something cars, but I can't really see them going lower than that for a quite a while. As we all know, it costs money to drive damn near anything, and for the enoyment factor of a BS, I'd happily pay the downside at that point.

I am jealous every day you get to drive yours, though I am still shopping!

wolfturbo

Well, I'm back from a quick business trip to Phoenix and happy to see that everyone is playing nice in my absence.

Yes Jim, you damaged me by letting me drive the beast. Perhaps a post ECU flash spin is in order???

I will have one "shortly". I am traveling most of November, so buying a car isn't a huge priority. But if one finds me, then great. Otherwise, I will make the acquisition in December. Kind of a "to Rob, from Rob, Love Rob" Christmas present. Whaddya think?????

In the interim, I think my winning strategy is to sit back and let the World Champ Birddog (Jeffrey of course!) flush one out for me.

O.K. time for me to go taunt some trick or treaters. Happy Halloween to all.

Wolfman out!

Tipo815

My first FULL weekend of driving this car and .... what a car!!

I had a chance to drag against a buddy in his 996 Turbo with mods. He claims 550hp. We ran from 0-130 and he was one and a half car length ahead of me by the time we hit 130. He could not believe how quick the BS was. It impressed the heck out of him. Heck ... it impressed the heck out of me!!

All in all this is a GREAT car! Rob (wolfturbo) asked me what made it so appealing to me and I told him it was the fact that it's probably the best COMPROMISE of all my cars. Not as fast as my CGT, not as sexy as my Lambo, and not as rare as my F40, HOWEVER, as FUN as all of them because it's a good compromise that provides me with 75% of the thrill I get when driving one of my other cars.

All this in a car you can drive every day, park anywhere, and not worry if it starts to rain on your way home! Just a joy to own and drive!

SL2003driver

Maybe you guys can help me figure this out. I have a 2008 SL550 with 6700 miles on it, MSRP at around $103K. Looking at 2008 Black Series with 3000 miles that MSRP $138K. Dealer wants my car and $27K. Would the Black be more fun and depreciate less then my SL550? Looking for fun and best bang for my $$$. If I keep a car 2 years that is a long time. Will I get that $27K back in a couple of years when I trade again compared to keeping the SL for a couple of more years and trading? Thanks for any insight you can give me..

clkwork

That seems like a decent deal to me but I'm not sure about the depreciation question. The black has a lower residual according to MB but you never know if it'll be desirable later on or not, there are just too many factors, but in 2 years I think the SL would keep a higher percentage of it's value. Obviously the black is going to be a lot more fun at the sacrifice of comfort and the open top.

SL2003driver

I like my SL550, I thought since the Black was a limited edition it would hold its value better. Since the MSRP for the BS was $135K and mine was $103K that was a $35K spread. The dealer is offering a $27K spread so I pickup $8K, but if the SL depreciates 40% in 3 years = worth $60K after 3 years and the Black depreciated 40% in 3 years = worth $84K then that $24K difference would be a net $3K loss owning the BS over the SL. I'm looking for more of a gain, meaning less depreciation and the BS neting me back say $35K on my $27K additional investment plus the fun of owning a limited edition fun to drive car. Does everyone think this is not possible???

alexander stemer

I don't think you can count on better depreciation with the BS. It takes a rare buyer to appreciate the car, and so far, BS buyers are more rare than sellers.

If you buy the BS, buy it because you want to drive it a long time. I don't anticipate seeing many more cars like this being developed at this price point. You would think that would increase the price, but factors of aging, lapsed warranty, and evolving "gotta have it" psychology will probably outweigh rarity. AS

seanlee768

after reading the post. i agree that this is a very limited car, but its not worth its price tag at all. how many people really take their car to the trak? my car have about 2400 miles on it and its got aroudn 1000 mile worth of track time. what mb should have done is put carbo roof, hood and trunk on the 138k car. mb trying to build a HARDCORD race car such as the gt3 or stradale, but they ended up with a pumped up Clk. the track manner on this car can only compare to something like a porsche turbo. the weight of the car really takes its toll after about 5-6 laps on a hot day. thsi car simply kills the rear tire. if you are into drifting then thsi for sure is hell of a fun car. the weight transfer of the car is very blemish but stable. the car has great manner on track (cali speedway) even on the bank going about 165. very controlable slide which probably due to its weight, but agian sliding = usage of rear tire again. however, for my 138k, i should have pick up anohter gt3.

as for street usage. this car is a wonderful car to drive on freeway or even as a daily. its got a lot more room than porsche or f car or lambo and yet still pack enough bunch to knock out the fcar and lambo but not the porsche since too many people upgrade their turbo porsche to mad hp. i got one at 500+ wheel hp as well. however, its just my 2cents on the car. i will try to post the pics from track session for you guys later on. also be sure to find yourself a good tire sponser.