This is like the never ending topic...guys, 99% of all cars depreciate, the curve is just slightly skewed right now due to the economy, however don't let that fool ya, even if we were living in a 1998 economy the BS would still have depreciated, instead of seeing high $70k-mid-$80k resale value we might be looking at high $80k resale values, these things were not going to go up in value, anyone that purchased one thinking that deserves the hit they had to take. Where this type of vehicle will shine resale wise is that within 2 years or so the values will level off, kind of like P cars and F cars do, try to find a sub $35k 911 or 328, 348 or 355 out there...you won't find any, I don't car what the year of the car, clean ones will always fetch north of the low to mid $30's. Same thing with Bentleys Cont GT's, they MSRP for $150k-$200k, they take a HUGE hit in the first 24 months but then they all seem to maintain $75k-$100k. Now take a look at a standard 2008 CLK 550 that MSRP'ed for $53k, it too has already taken a 50% bath, they auction all day for $25-$29k two years from now the same CLK 550 will take another 50% bath and auction for $13k-$15k but I can promise you in two years you will not find any BS at auction for $30k-$35K, I'm guessing they will flatten out in the $48-$55k range with minimal depreciation after that...hold on to it long enough and take care of it and you will see the number start going back up in say 18 years or so LOL.

Mines a keeper................

 

The CLK DTM sold for 236K euro's about $300K US when new. The P900 was the development car with the 6.3 motor. There were several Orange cars that saw track duty most notiably Tommy Kendall's AMG test drive that's still on the AMG P/L. Is the car at Laguna a 6.3 or 55? If it's the P900 which I don't think it is that would be the one to have.

Canepa was asking 400k for a CLK DTM last year, whether he got it one doesn't know as most collectors are tight lipped. FWIW, they are more a top end car as the BS beats it on most tracks.

The owners of Laguna Niguel Mercedes are the Spellings and can be seen at virtually every AMG or Mercedes event. Jeff's wife owns the dealership and the red CLK 63 BS was origionally ordered by her and I believe that's the one with 500 miles that has been referred to in the thread.

 

Guys, I know cars depreciate and I certainly didn't buy mine as an investment (although my 928 GTS is worth more than twice what I paid for it 9 years ago and I just sold my 1978 for more than double what I paid for it 5 years ago and almost twice the original MSRP). Please, I'm not that naive..........

It's the same ole story when it comes to these guys who come in here; this time its AMS Performance making a statement of future value as though they have a crystal ball or are some sort of fortune teller? I'd like to know what this future value guess is based on? Hope? Facts? Know something we don't? Doubt it! Who really knows where values are headed? It's easy to prognosticate future declines in value when you don't currently have one but perhaps have a figure that you hope you'll be able to get one for at some point in the not to distant future.........

I call bull***** on this guy - just like every other that has come here with the same story!

In spite of not having bought this car as an investment do I want values to go to $50-60k. Hell no I don't! Why should I? I already have one!

 

I had a chance to look at the Orange CLK DTM at Laguna and it is in fact a 6.3 Powered P900. My understanding is that they built only two of them with the 6.3. It is not street legal in the US and was brought in as a "Race Car."

The CLK DTM was about 300K in 2005 and they can be bought for less than that in Europe but the issue is getting them into the US and the cost to have them certified. The 400K number is not that bad when you figure the owner probably paid between $50K and $75K to have it shipped and certified for a Show and Display permit.

Most CLK DTM owners in Europe actually run the heck out of their cars. When I visited AMG in 2007 they had four of them in the Performance Studio being prepped for an event and they all had cages and various additional mods for the track. It was good to see them being used for what they were designed for.

I hear what you are saying about the performance of the CLK BS vs the CLK DTM but I still have a hard time believing the BS beats it on most tracks. In the hands of a real driver I think the DTM wins every time. I know the suspension is an evolution and I know the front tires on the DTM are undersized but the platform is solid and the drivertrain is just sick.

The fact that it was launched in 2005 is really insane and in my opinion will go down as one of the coolest AMG's of all time.

They told me the P900 was not for sale unless someone had a check that they couldn't refuse.

 

I have had the experience of attending AMG Driver Training events in Europe. There were always multiple CLK-DTM's at each of the events and they were always in a class by themselves. I love my CLK63 Black Series, but there is absolutely no way that a STOCK CLK63 Black Series could have hoped to compete with a CLK-DTM.

Now, if you modify a CLK63 Black Series to the extent that JRCart has done, a match up with the CLK-DTM might be a different matter . . .

There's a reason why the CLK-DTM was over three times as expensive as our cars. By the way the one at Canepa still appears to be available. Also, if the price quoted, above, is correct, it has come down signifigantly since I inquired about it a while back and was told $500,000.

JDB

 

I agree haha, run the hell out of them and enjoy it.

In all seriousness the best way to buy an AMG is roughly 2-3 years old with still relatively low mileage. Most the staggering majority of all depreciation happens in these years sop you minimize your loss, yet the mileage is still low enough to the point where serious maintenance isn't required. Then just hold for a couple of years, enjoy it and sell... repeat process over and over again.

 

[QUOTE=AMG Dictator;3850509]I had a chance to look at the Orange CLK DTM at Laguna and it is in fact a 6.3 Powered P900. My understanding is that they built only two of them with the 6.3. It is not street legal in the US and was brought in as a "Race Car."




I hear what you are saying about the performance of the CLK BS vs the CLK DTM but I still have a hard time believing the BS beats it on most tracks. In the hands of a real driver I think the DTM wins every time. I know the suspension is an evolution and I know the front tires on the DTM are undersized but the platform is solid and the drivertrain is just sick.

You can believe in Santa Claus or whatever, I've raced against the CLK-DTM's in europe at the Sachenring and on MOST tracks the BS is flat faster stock for stock. Now the problem is finding a stock DTM as most oweners in europe that track them bump the power and change the suspension.
The AMG driving coaches will agree, unless your driving a track like SPA, the BS puts the power down sooner.

 

[QUOTE=Jim Brady;3850736]I am not trying to get into a pissing contest with you and your santa comment is not required. I happen to have a CLK Black and think it is a fantastic car. I have driven the CLK DTM and think that even in its stock form would be a formitable foe to the Black. I think the Black is much easier to drive quick but I tip my hat to the DTM.

All I was saying was that in the hands of a race driver, I think on most tracks short or long the DTM wins.

Hockenheim Short - Sport Auto

CLK DTM 1:12.5
CLK Black 1:13.8

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track7.html

And Oschersleben - Autobuild

CLK DTM 1:44.10
CLK Black 1:45.87

http://www.fastestlaps.com/track11.html

Most accounts have the DTM faster on the North Loop as well but I have seen a bunch of numbers for both on that track.

I think I would be quicker in the Black but I am not a race car driver. Were the people you were running against at the Sachenring race drivers or was it an open track day? I stand by my comments, put Bernd Schneider in both and I think he is quicker in the DTM. 580+ HP, 900 nm TQ and 3700 lbs.

 

Selling MB mods by day, economist by night. You sure are busy.

 

Well, all I can say is that the paddle shift automatic is a lot more fun to drive than I thought it would be be.

Personally, I like this car better than my Ford GT (that I recently sold).

 

mine's in dallas getting a clear bra. damn i miss it.

 

Interesting thought. I don't hold an MBA, but would it be safe to assume that the Mod-business will take a big hit as well?

 

[QUOTE=AMG Dictator;3850922]I guess you forgot Klaus Ludwig's time of 7:56 on the Nordschleife in the DTM. I think Bernd Schneider did a 7:45 in the BS but different days different conditons... right! BTW, DTM's have 590 lbs ft of torque which isn't 900 Nm

The quickest car isn't always the most powerful. AMG's improvment to the suspension of the BS is the difference and the engineers took great pride in that. You must be able to put the power down and that's why I had higher exit speeds than the DTMs. True they have more torque and horsepower, and I spoke to several DTM drivers who said they were spinning their tires coming out of the slower speed turns and it was difficult to modulate power. Putting the power down sooner is the key, if you raced you'd know that. One of the reason why the GT-R is so quick compared to many of it's more powerful rivals.

A long time ago I learned that torque is acceleration and horspower is top speed. The horsepower advantage is really nil on a 2.2 mile track unless it has a 1/2 mile straight. The wider front tires also helped the cornering grip of the BS so we had the DTM's covered in the corners and their power advantage wasn't enough to make it up the the straight. I will admit on longer tracks it they would have the top speed advantage but the BS would get them in the corners.

Lastly, the AMG driving coaches that I spoke to (Reinhold Renger, Ulrich Fritz and Herr Roland) claimed they were all faster in the BS than the stock DTM's at the Sachenring. So that's three pro driver and myself (club driver).
He says as he looks at his pricless AMG Sorts Trophy.

 

what i really want to know is does either car have bluetooth?

 

[QUOTE=Jim Brady;3851383]Actually I didn't forget Klaus's 7:56, I also didn't forget Sport Auto's 7:54. The problem is that I also didn't forget Autobild's 8:02 in the CLK Black.

My apology for the NM conversion, I was clearly wrong on this.

As you said, I am not a race car driver but I do understand the importance of balance in the cars set up and that power is not everything. Both of the track times I mentioned are 2 miles or less. Your theory doesn't hold water as low speed cornering is key on these tracks. But thanks for explaining the basics of racing, it is really helpful.

Your ability to "cover the DTM's" in the corners was most likely due to your stellar driving ability.

Here is my theory - Your view of the CLK DTM is limited by your real world experience around them while they were being driven by their owners not real race car drivers.

It is a shame that we can't just run a stock CLK Black against a CLK DTM for fun. Aren't there a couple around Souther California? I would be happy to bet a big old bottle of Champagne that the CLK DTM could lap Laguna Seca faster than my CLK Black.

No need to keep debating against a car that I like so much. I think they are both great, I just don't feel to need bash another great AMG car.

Keep polishing that participant trophy or did you actually win the AMG Sports Trophy?

 

Such a reasonable post until ...

Until the "last word" syndrome rears it's ugly head!

 

A good friend of mine has just bought (last week) a CLK DTM. He previosly owned the CLK Black that appeared on Top Gear and Clarksons "Thriller" dvd.

His early doors feeling is that the DTM "feels" quicker, slighly sharper and lighter; BUT as he admits these are initial road driving impressions. Hopefully next year when the weather improves we will get out on track and put this baby to bed once and for all. I promise I will do my best to uphold the honour of "THE BLACK" .

We reguarly do track days in Lotus 2-elevens and are very evenly matched; so hopefully this will be a fair assessment of the cars ability more than driver difference.

 

I tried, I really tried...

 

I hope there's video involved lsb!

 

I wil do my best !!

 

The price differential between the DTM and Black Series seems to vary hugely around the world.

Here in the UK at the moment you could buy a DTM for just under twice the price of a Black. Will be interesting to see how this price difference reacts in the future. For reference there are reported to be 19 UK supplied Blacks and would have to believe a slightly lower number of DTM's.

I would have to say that I believe the DTM is undervalued here at the moment compared to other parts of the globe. Import/export anyone ??

 

No worries. You can make up for it though. Since you clearly live in Southern California, I would LOVE to get together with you for a track day. You know, put all that big theoretic talk into reality. I already asked you once to meet us at the track, but maybe that time you were fresh out of tires and brakes from a previous track day. I have to handed to you, I never managed to go through a set of tires and brakes in ONE track day. But than again, I don't drive my BS "super hard" like you do. No need to bring a BIG bottle of Champagne, unless you are a Formula 1 driver and like to spray it instead of drinking it. I prefer quality over quantity. I'll raid my cellar and bring a bottle of 1998 Cristal or a bottle of 1996 Dom Perignon, both excellent years. Hopefully I'll be able to get some of my friends with their BS's to come join us also. All you have to do is show up with YOUR Black Series .

 

Depends on which niche market you are in and where you are in the market place. IF you are on the expensive side of the market place business must be terrible right now haha. If you provide a good bargain then sales are up .

In all seriousness, I do think the days of absurdly overpriced aftermarket parts is slowly coming to an end though as the recession deepens due to various macroeconomic forces unfolding and as discretionary income begins to tighten considerably. Once the next leg down kicks in many shops will probably have to close down (as many of the big names in the industry already have). The one opposing factor to this is that higher end cars are depreciating so quickly in price that "tuner generation" for lack of a better term is getting their hands on these cars and starting to mod them far more aggressively than was the case just a few years ago. However, the long term discretionary income in this market segment is skeptic at best, which is why the more cost effective solutions are appealing in the marketplace more than ever as these younger "modders" get a hold of these cars which were way out of their price range just a few years ago. So much so that many of the expensive tuners have had to slash MSRP prices substantially to reflect the niche market conditions as well as the overall economy.

The Exotics tuners will probably do decently well simply b/c their margins are so ridiculously high (lambo's, Ferrari's etc), but again theirs is a low volume gain so that's another story all together. The "hyper-tuners" (lack of a better term) will have a tough time as well but may be isolated enough b/c their clientele is the top .01% elite. Although, Mansory may still have some trouble selling in this economy. I guess their entire client base must be Sheikh's that have their own oil producing countries

Just food for though...

 

.........OR, on how many of your potential customers you alienate on web forums b/c of you're know it all postings?

 

I really fail to see how my opinion that the CLK DTM would be faster on the track than the CLK Black has resulted in your post requesting that I join you for a track day that is dripping with scarcasm regarding some of my previous posts. What exactly does me meeting you at the track prove in the debate of if the CLK DTM is faster than the CLK Black?

Perhaps you are just a really nice guy that enjoys the company of fellow CLK Black Series owners so I will be happy to let you know the next time I will be at Laguna Seca. If you can round up a CLK DTM for the event, it would be an added bonus and I would be happy to bring along my bottle of Champagne (only the good stuff) and perhaps we could put this fun little debate to rest without all the theory.