Just how rare are the AMG GTR's going to be in the US?
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18 AMG GTR
Just how rare are the AMG GTR's going to be in the US?
Been doing some research and know these are limited to 2000 in total production. Somewhere on this forum I read less than 70 total are in the states. But when I look on Autotrader and Ebay there are a few to be had, granted at a markup...... I have mine coming in next month and was wondering just how many will be/are on the roads in the US?
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There is no finite number to be produced as per MB. That being said, the months long delay whilst produced cars were held up at the VPCs has really lowered the number of 2018s that can be produced and imported. Hence I’m not sure you’ll even see that many for the first production year. Less than 500?
Most definitely there’ll be loads more Porsche GT3s sold for 2018 than AMG GT Rs! lol
As for production plans in 2019 I’d imagine MB will make as many as ordered and they can get the parts for, so I doubt it’ll be a residual value icon like the Porsche GT cars.
Bish
Most definitely there’ll be loads more Porsche GT3s sold for 2018 than AMG GT Rs! lol
As for production plans in 2019 I’d imagine MB will make as many as ordered and they can get the parts for, so I doubt it’ll be a residual value icon like the Porsche GT cars.
Bish
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18 AMG GTR
Ive read in numerous articles they are only producing 2000... are you saying they are going to produce as many
as they have orders for?
https://www.motor1.com/news/78725/me...st-2000-units/
https://www.motor1.com/news/137881/mercedes-amg-gtr-production-begins/
as they have orders for?
https://www.motor1.com/news/78725/me...st-2000-units/
https://www.motor1.com/news/137881/mercedes-amg-gtr-production-begins/
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Its not about what car is better, its about simple econ 101, supply and demand and I just dont see the GTR demand holding up in the long run.
Last edited by Vic55; Nov 29, 2017 at 12:04 AM.
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If I was a betting man, which Im not even though as I type this Im in Vegas (LOL) there is no chance the GTR holds is resale better than a GT3. I dont have a direct comparo since I only had a 991.1 GT3 and when I sold it there was no GTR around (May of 2015) but to this date, the GT3 is an incredible resale value whether it be a 997 or a 991.
Its not about what car is better, its about simple econ 101, supply and demand and I just dont see the GTR demand holding up in the long run.
Its not about what car is better, its about simple econ 101, supply and demand and I just dont see the GTR demand holding up in the long run.
One thing: there have probably been more 991.2 GT3s delivered in October and November than we will see GT Rs delivered in the whole of the 2018 model year. The lack of GT Rs due to the delay at the VPCs. So, IF there is a dearth of GT Rs, and the want is great for them; (they are after all fantastic beasts and IMHO a ‘better’ performance car than a GT3), the valuation of 2018 GT Rs may well remain relatively high versus historic norms for an AMG. At least for the initial model year.
IF far more 2019s are produced and production catches up with demand; (and personally once owners start getting these cars out to HPDE events, etc I can foresee demand increasing as they are going to be hard to ‘beat’ at an HPDE), then the residual value will fall. To what extent I have no idea, but I’d like to think less than the GT/GTS models, but probably far more than your typical GT3.
Bish
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I was holding off replying in the hope you’d post Vic, as you’re the expert on these things.
One thing: there have probably been more 991.2 GT3s delivered in October and November than we will see GT Rs delivered in the whole of the 2018 model year. The lack of GT Rs due to the delay at the VPCs. So, IF there is a dearth of GT Rs, and the want is great for them; (they are after all fantastic beasts and IMHO a ‘better’ performance car than a GT3), the valuation of 2018 GT Rs may well remain relatively high versus historic norms for an AMG. At least for the initial model year.
IF far more 2019s are produced and production catches up with demand; (and personally once owners start getting these cars out to HPDE events, etc I can foresee demand increasing as they are going to be hard to ‘beat’ at an HPDE), then the residual value will fall. To what extent I have no idea, but I’d like to think less than the GT/GTS models, but probably far more than your typical GT3.
Bish
One thing: there have probably been more 991.2 GT3s delivered in October and November than we will see GT Rs delivered in the whole of the 2018 model year. The lack of GT Rs due to the delay at the VPCs. So, IF there is a dearth of GT Rs, and the want is great for them; (they are after all fantastic beasts and IMHO a ‘better’ performance car than a GT3), the valuation of 2018 GT Rs may well remain relatively high versus historic norms for an AMG. At least for the initial model year.
IF far more 2019s are produced and production catches up with demand; (and personally once owners start getting these cars out to HPDE events, etc I can foresee demand increasing as they are going to be hard to ‘beat’ at an HPDE), then the residual value will fall. To what extent I have no idea, but I’d like to think less than the GT/GTS models, but probably far more than your typical GT3.
Bish
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Word on the street is supply is limited to 300 GT-Rs next year - anyone else hear that? That will hold off the AMG drop for a bit, but I suspect a value curve much like a Turbo/Turbo S after that.
I think we'll also see a drop on 991.1 GT3s here soon as supply is outpacing demand by a bunch right now for 2014-2015 GT3s. They are sitting for months now and Winter's coming.
Chip-
I think we'll also see a drop on 991.1 GT3s here soon as supply is outpacing demand by a bunch right now for 2014-2015 GT3s. They are sitting for months now and Winter's coming.
Chip-
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Word on the street is supply is limited to 300 GT-Rs next year - anyone else hear that? That will hold off the AMG drop for a bit, but I suspect a value curve much like a Turbo/Turbo S after that.
I think we'll also see a drop on 991.1 GT3s here soon as supply is outpacing demand by a bunch right now for 2014-2015 GT3s. They are sitting for months now and Winter's coming.
Chip-
I think we'll also see a drop on 991.1 GT3s here soon as supply is outpacing demand by a bunch right now for 2014-2015 GT3s. They are sitting for months now and Winter's coming.
Chip-
I agree with your statement above: with a lot of 991.2 GT3s apparently being produced, and it being a ‘better’ car, 991.1 versions will see a pretty good decrease in value I’d bet within the next year.
Bish
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SLS AMG BS, G63, GT-R and others.
I think (hope?) it will have an impact on the GT3 RS as well, since the 991.2 GT3 may give it a serious run for it's money. But I love those louvered fenders...
Chip-
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2018 AMG GTS, 2015 911 GT3, 2017 E300, 2014 X3 35i
It's a telling point that MBFS sets the 3 year residual of the GTR lower than the GTC. Will the GTR have a steep depreciation curve like the 991 Turbo/Turbo S?
Frustrated owners may bail on their GTR delivery after months of waiting and not desiring delivery during non-driveable winter months leading to increased supply.
I got 92% of MSRP plus 5% excise tax credit on my 15 GT3 trade-in with 8000 no track miles the other month. The low-ball trade-in offers were still 82% of MSRP which is remarkable for a 3 year-old car.
I would anticipate trade-in values trending downward as new 991.2 GT3 owners trade-in their old models and winter comes to the Northeast and Midwest.
Frustrated owners may bail on their GTR delivery after months of waiting and not desiring delivery during non-driveable winter months leading to increased supply.
I got 92% of MSRP plus 5% excise tax credit on my 15 GT3 trade-in with 8000 no track miles the other month. The low-ball trade-in offers were still 82% of MSRP which is remarkable for a 3 year-old car.
I would anticipate trade-in values trending downward as new 991.2 GT3 owners trade-in their old models and winter comes to the Northeast and Midwest.
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All valid points Dave. I would hate to see that the demand is short lived due to the VPC issues. What that would be is a bubble that will ultimately right size. MBFS has already set lower residuals for the car vs its stage down brother (GTC) by 5 points across each term and this was all done pre VPC delays so I guess this is a time will tell situation. With the SLS the car had initial demand then the values just died at the end of the run but now its flattened out. Its always hard to guess on a completely brand new model with no prior resume.
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Bish
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Good question, usually residual insurance dictates an MRM or Maximum Residualized MSRP which Benz does NOT have. I think they set their residuals lower because they dont have a true insurer behind it. Now they do have the parent company which more than likely partakes in such residuals to help move their metal thru the captive finance arm.
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LOL true but to be successful in automotive leasing, residual setting is clearly the key. Imagine being off by just 4 or 5 points; your fleet would come back to the auction as lease returns and the residual losses would be incredible. Conversely set them too low and you dont even attract a lessee. This really only applies to commodity leases of course but Ive worked with some of the best residual analysts that not only were able to create tremendous lease sales but the net residual gains in some months covered the banks entire credit loss for that month from a chargeoff standpoint.
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R Nine T
Interesting. I was helping a friend buy a BMW today, and was blown away by their residuals and rates. I don’t know how they sustain it, as we all know all tumble hard in first 36.
Back on topic, regarding the GTR and it’s continuing lap time success, I’ve noticed a fundamental change in the buying perspective of this car that should prop up demand for 6-12 months, but beyond that who knows. The GTR was a lot more Car than everyone expected and it will be interesting to see what they do with the Black (electric front assist IMO ) in 2018-19.
Back on topic, regarding the GTR and it’s continuing lap time success, I’ve noticed a fundamental change in the buying perspective of this car that should prop up demand for 6-12 months, but beyond that who knows. The GTR was a lot more Car than everyone expected and it will be interesting to see what they do with the Black (electric front assist IMO ) in 2018-19.
Last edited by AMG 17GT; Nov 30, 2017 at 02:37 AM.
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I traded in my BMW i8 for the GT. There was a lot of hype for the i8 before it came out. But I remember reading an article in one of the car magazines that BMW would produce as many of them as it had orders for. I ordered my car from my local dealer, from whom I had bought many BMWs. Then they started to come out. People were paying $25,000 to $100,000 over sticker (sticker was around $140,000). My dealer had committed to sell me the i8 at MSRP and I took delivery in November 2014. I almost bought the car outright, but at the last minute I decided to lease it. Lucky me!
The car remained fairly rare for the next 12 months and then came the deluge. All those people who had paid over MSRP were trying to sell their i8s -- with zero miles -- for MSRP and BMW was cranking them out to anyone who wanted one.
Prices sank and a year ago BMW dealers wre reducing the MSRP price by $20,000+. The only new exotic with a worse record has been the hybrid NSX, where in some cases dealers knocked $45,000 off the MSRP. When I turned in my i8 (6 weeks before lease end -- it bored the hell out of me) it was probably worth $80,000.
Bottom line is from what I've read the GTR is going to be mass produced, too. So the price will drop. Whether it will sink the way the i8 and NSX have is uncertain. But it's a mass produced car.
The car remained fairly rare for the next 12 months and then came the deluge. All those people who had paid over MSRP were trying to sell their i8s -- with zero miles -- for MSRP and BMW was cranking them out to anyone who wanted one.
Prices sank and a year ago BMW dealers wre reducing the MSRP price by $20,000+. The only new exotic with a worse record has been the hybrid NSX, where in some cases dealers knocked $45,000 off the MSRP. When I turned in my i8 (6 weeks before lease end -- it bored the hell out of me) it was probably worth $80,000.
Bottom line is from what I've read the GTR is going to be mass produced, too. So the price will drop. Whether it will sink the way the i8 and NSX have is uncertain. But it's a mass produced car.
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GT3
Correct. That said, I think it's one of the few models (or only one?) made entirely at AMG. So while they are building them as fast as they can, that still means they can't build more than a certain amount every year. I forgot where I saw it, but there was a source that listed how many they can physically build at a given time. And I think even if they cranked them out as fast as possible, it still only yields like 2,000 cars over the course of 3 years or something. So they are not "limited production" per se. But even when pumping them out of the factory, they are still not gonna build a million of 'em.
