Questions re manually adjustable rear wing on GTR
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Questions re manually adjustable rear wing on GTR
Are there any published figures on how much added downforce the rear spoiler adds when adjusted to the max angle? Those who track, do you adjust the rear wing up and if so is it noticeable? On the flip side do you think it reduces the top end noticeably? I'm guessing most that have it adjusted do so for looks. How difficult is it to adjust?
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Are there any published figures on how much added downforce the rear spoiler adds when adjusted to the max angle? Those who track, do you adjust the rear wing up and if so is it noticeable? On the flip side do you think it reduces the top end noticeably? I'm guessing most that have it adjusted do so for looks. How difficult is it to adjust?
Bish
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Wing at max angle will be most downforce and slowest speeds. Less downforce from being “parallel” will give potential for more speed but sacrifice some rear end downforce. Find what suites your driving needs the best via experimentation.
i didn’t ask, a general assumption would be the Academy cars are set up max downforce to help rear end be most planted, and also keep top speeds down, since you get all kinds of different experience levels at those events, so the “safest” setting makes a lot of sense.
i didn’t ask, a general assumption would be the Academy cars are set up max downforce to help rear end be most planted, and also keep top speeds down, since you get all kinds of different experience levels at those events, so the “safest” setting makes a lot of sense.
Last edited by dlefty; Oct 19, 2018 at 06:17 PM.
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Wing at max angle will be most downforce and slowest speeds. Less downforce from being “parallel” will give potential for more speed but sacrifice some rear end downforce. Find what suites your driving needs the best via experimentation.
i didn’t ask, a general assumption would be the Academy cars are set up max downforce to help rear end be most planted, and also keep top speeds down, since you get all kinds of different experience levels at those events, so the “safest” setting makes a lot of sense.
i didn’t ask, a general assumption would be the Academy cars are set up max downforce to help rear end be most planted, and also keep top speeds down, since you get all kinds of different experience levels at those events, so the “safest” setting makes a lot of sense.
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From: Overland Park, KS
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The adjustable wing on the GT R is nothing like the awful spoiler on the C7 Z06/7 which essentially acts like an airbrake much above 140 mph.
I have had the GT R up to 140 mph at the end of the main straight at my local track and it is still pulling like a train and not slowing down its rate of acceleration at all; at least subjectively. So whilst I do think it contributes actual increased downforce on the rear axle at speed, it does not
appear to slow the car down much, if at all.
Bish
I have had the GT R up to 140 mph at the end of the main straight at my local track and it is still pulling like a train and not slowing down its rate of acceleration at all; at least subjectively. So whilst I do think it contributes actual increased downforce on the rear axle at speed, it does not
appear to slow the car down much, if at all.
Bish
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The adjustable wing on the GT R is nothing like the awful spoiler on the C7 Z06/7 which essentially acts like an airbrake much above 140 mph.
I have had the GT R up to 140 mph at the end of the main straight at my local track and it is still pulling like a train and not slowing down its rate of acceleration at all; at least subjectively. So whilst I do think it contributes actual increased downforce on the rear axle at speed, it does not
appear to slow the car down much, if at all.
Bish
I have had the GT R up to 140 mph at the end of the main straight at my local track and it is still pulling like a train and not slowing down its rate of acceleration at all; at least subjectively. So whilst I do think it contributes actual increased downforce on the rear axle at speed, it does not
appear to slow the car down much, if at all.
Bish
Now I’m not talking several MPh, but a couple / few absolutely it does when full tilt.
But I will agree with you on Vettes, except I would point to the new ZR1, the big track pack wing absolutely results in slower top speeds.
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fun ones.
I did quite a bit of research on this and leant a little bit about aero too.
There is absolutely no data available from AMG at any level. Cars leave the factory with an arbitrary wing position.
I believe the maximum attack angle that the academy cars tend to run represents a poor understanding of aero by the people who set them up. Why? Because that setup is past the accept stall angle for most cars (15degrees or so). Furthermore the wing is close to the body of the car so the airflow it’s sitting in isn’t horizontal but roughly parallel to the line of the car(meaning the effective angle is even greater) this is why the ends have a different angle because they sit out in are that moves in a more horizontal fashion.
My wing is set 10deg down from horizontal as a “best guess” I keep meaning to experiment at a trackday but I tend to enjoy driving too much to bother.
There is absolutely no data available from AMG at any level. Cars leave the factory with an arbitrary wing position.
I believe the maximum attack angle that the academy cars tend to run represents a poor understanding of aero by the people who set them up. Why? Because that setup is past the accept stall angle for most cars (15degrees or so). Furthermore the wing is close to the body of the car so the airflow it’s sitting in isn’t horizontal but roughly parallel to the line of the car(meaning the effective angle is even greater) this is why the ends have a different angle because they sit out in are that moves in a more horizontal fashion.
My wing is set 10deg down from horizontal as a “best guess” I keep meaning to experiment at a trackday but I tend to enjoy driving too much to bother.
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Before I touched my wing, I measured the angle it was set at from the factory. Factory 'neutral' setting was 5 degrees. Now that it is maxed out, it is sitting at 10 degrees.
Also, on the highway the fuel mileage is 3 to 4L/100km more than when it was set neutral so it is definitely digging.
Also, on the highway the fuel mileage is 3 to 4L/100km more than when it was set neutral so it is definitely digging.
Last edited by canucklehead; Oct 20, 2018 at 12:31 PM.
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From: Overland Park, KS
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It ABSOLUTELY knocks a little MPH off at a high speed track like Road America, especially before coming off gas to turn 1 at Road America.
Now I’m not talking several MPh, but a couple / few absolutely it does when full tilt.
But I will agree with you on Vettes, except I would point to the new ZR1, the big track pack wing absolutely results in slower top speeds.
Bish
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Facts of Info for my responses to this thread come from GTR, and it’s wing settIngs specific to higher speed tracks. Road America as example has essentially 3 drag strips within its 4 miles.
Besides AMG GTR I can share a lot of track set up info as it relates to “the other” GTR, Nissan’s version, but not too relevant as a totally different machine, and was FBO stock turbo set up.....but I will say, 168/169 mph coming into 90-degree turn 1 is always interesting! Road America very hard on brakes and generally rewards horsepower.
SO my downforce experiences and opinions of various vehicles on track are primarily experienced there in various cars, SLOWER tracks results will be different.
Last edited by dlefty; Oct 20, 2018 at 03:57 PM.
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From: Overland Park, KS
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Facts of Info for my responses to this thread come from GTR, and it’s wing settIngs specific to higher speed tracks. Road America as example has essentially 3 drag strips within its 4 miles.
Besides AMG GTR I can share a lot of track set up info as it relates to “the other” GTR, Nissan’s version, but not too relevant as a totally different machine, and was FBO stock turbo set up.....but I will say, 168/169 mph coming into 90-degree turn 1 is always interesting! Road America very hard on brakes and generally rewards horsepower.
SO my downforce experiences and opinions of various vehicles on track are primarily experienced there in various cars, SLOWER tracks results will be different.
Bish
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Just so I know exactly what you’re saying: you personally have noticed a GT R having less speed at the end of the straight at RA with the rear wing in its more acute angle, versus when the wing has been set at its more ‘level’ angle. Is this correct? Or are you extrapolating your experience with your GT S vis a vis rear wing angle, assuming you have a variable angle wing on your GT S? Which of course iirc the GT S Ed 1 wing was fixed.
Bish
Sacrifice top speed for downforce, or downforce for top speed, that is the wonderful “aero tuning” world that often pops up for the racers out there.....set ups can vary based on many track, chassis, driver needs/demands.
Just to throw this out to get people thinking a bit, new ZR1 Vette with “track pack” wing which sits pretty parallel, is almost 10mph slower in half mile vs exact same car with that “paralell” wing removed. Now imagine throwing more “angle” into it to create even more of a “wind wall” to create more downforce.
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Bish and all-also keep in mind as you add downforce by tilting the rear wing more aggressively, you can also create more understeer which can lead to needing more front downforce added to eliminate the added understeer you just put in via adjustment of wing.
Makes even more sense when you think of the Academy cars, once again referencing my line of they “choose the safest setting”, more indersteer equals less potential of oversteer (spin) and slows down top speed for the novice track folks. Actually a great way to start possibly if less experienced.
Makes even more sense when you think of the Academy cars, once again referencing my line of they “choose the safest setting”, more indersteer equals less potential of oversteer (spin) and slows down top speed for the novice track folks. Actually a great way to start possibly if less experienced.
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OK, so you yourself, driving a GT R, and not a GT S, have noticed a reduction in top line speed as a function of a greater AOA on the rear wing? That is what you’re saying.
I only am trying to get a specific answer since I am also a pretty experienced HPDE type driver; (been doing it since ‘95), and whilst I am in no way a ‘Pro’, I do tend to know what’s going on with my car. The GT R for all it’s similarities to the GT S is a different beast on a road course, and I have driven my GT R with/without the wing at markedly differing angles. I do think, but can’t quantify via data, that there is a more ‘planted’ feel to the rear end on track out in many corners with the wing at its greatest angle, but I have yet to notice any reduction in terminal speed at the end of the two main straights. At my next track weekend, which unfortunately may well be in the Spring, I am going to vary the angles between different run sessions, and see for myself whether I can objectively measure a difference in straight line speed. Again, given the increased power and difference in the DCT of the GT R versus the GT S, I believe that any real differences, at least on the majority of tracks, is marginal. Further, total corner speeds and in particular increased corner exit speed, may well be enhanced by having the wing set to its greatest AOA, hence negating any marginally reduced speeds on a (very) long straight.
I only am trying to get a specific answer since I am also a pretty experienced HPDE type driver; (been doing it since ‘95), and whilst I am in no way a ‘Pro’, I do tend to know what’s going on with my car. The GT R for all it’s similarities to the GT S is a different beast on a road course, and I have driven my GT R with/without the wing at markedly differing angles. I do think, but can’t quantify via data, that there is a more ‘planted’ feel to the rear end on track out in many corners with the wing at its greatest angle, but I have yet to notice any reduction in terminal speed at the end of the two main straights. At my next track weekend, which unfortunately may well be in the Spring, I am going to vary the angles between different run sessions, and see for myself whether I can objectively measure a difference in straight line speed. Again, given the increased power and difference in the DCT of the GT R versus the GT S, I believe that any real differences, at least on the majority of tracks, is marginal. Further, total corner speeds and in particular increased corner exit speed, may well be enhanced by having the wing set to its greatest AOA, hence negating any marginally reduced speeds on a (very) long straight.
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fun ones.
Before I touched my wing, I measured the angle it was set at from the factory. Factory 'neutral' setting was 5 degrees. Now that it is maxed out, it is sitting at 10 degrees.
Also, on the highway the fuel mileage is 3 to 4L/100km more than when it was set neutral so it is definitely digging.
Also, on the highway the fuel mileage is 3 to 4L/100km more than when it was set neutral so it is definitely digging.
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From: Overland Park, KS
‘24 BMW iX M60
The wing on my car is currently set at the greatest angle. It measures -16 degrees at the end plates and -9 degrees at the main, (centre) component. The -9 degree measurement was taken at multiple points.
Mine is the black plastic wing, not the CF version although I believe that the shape/dimensions are identical.
Bish
Mine is the black plastic wing, not the CF version although I believe that the shape/dimensions are identical.
Bish
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Well guess I will have to check it again. I put a digital torpedo level on it all times I was adjusting it.
Bish, yes those were the same areas that I took my measurements. I did not measure the outer area as I was only concerned with establishing a point of reference.
Wing on my car is CF.
Bish, yes those were the same areas that I took my measurements. I did not measure the outer area as I was only concerned with establishing a point of reference.
Wing on my car is CF.
Last edited by canucklehead; Oct 22, 2018 at 07:50 AM.
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The adjustable wing on the GT R is nothing like the awful spoiler on the C7 Z06/7 which essentially acts like an airbrake much above 140 mph.
I have had the GT R up to 140 mph at the end of the main straight at my local track and it is still pulling like a train and not slowing down its rate of acceleration at all; at least subjectively. So whilst I do think it contributes actual increased downforce on the rear axle at speed, it does not
appear to slow the car down much, if at all.
Bish
I have had the GT R up to 140 mph at the end of the main straight at my local track and it is still pulling like a train and not slowing down its rate of acceleration at all; at least subjectively. So whilst I do think it contributes actual increased downforce on the rear axle at speed, it does not
appear to slow the car down much, if at all.
Bish
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2018 GTR and 2018 E63 Wagon
Not apples to apples, but at COTA, my ACR mph was 8mph LESS with wing on #3 setting versus #1 (goes 1 thru 5). So max attack #5 would have been even bigger mph difference. And this is with in-car data, not estimating.
If a wing is adding downforce, it's adding a lot of drag, no way around it.
If a wing is adding downforce, it's adding a lot of drag, no way around it.
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fun ones.
The wing on my car is currently set at the greatest angle. It measures -16 degrees at the end plates and -9 degrees at the main, (centre) component. The -9 degree measurement was taken at multiple points.
Mine is the black plastic wing, not the CF version although I believe that the shape/dimensions are identical.
Bish
Next time I'm with the car I'll have to measure now, I did this a few months ago now so my memory might be off I guess(I hope not, I'm not that old
)
