AMG GT Black Series
08-22-2022, 08:24 AM
#151
Small correction. The bidder paid $430K PLUS A 10% commission or $473k. This is the same price as the last one they sold in their Harrisburg auction.
As far s pricing goes, market pricing in my assessment is reaching the bottom. There are only 7 new ones on the market now and 37 used ones.
These are rather low inventory numbers when compared to the Porsche and Ferrari markets.
As far s pricing goes, market pricing in my assessment is reaching the bottom. There are only 7 new ones on the market now and 37 used ones.
These are rather low inventory numbers when compared to the Porsche and Ferrari markets.
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Skilly (08-22-2022)
08-22-2022, 09:27 AM
#153
MBWorld Fanatic!
Doc:
The 1,700 manufactured is a worldwide number. As Burt mentioned here on the forum only 371 were imported to the US.
Also, it is important to remember that the used inventory for sale is coming from predomitely dealers. That means they got a new car commission at MSRP with or without a premium and in many cases upped the resale price to current market pricing and are/will be receiving a second commission on the same car.
Many of these cars are “floor planned.” That means they are paying at least interest every month while the car is in inventory. If the car stays in inventory too long without being sold the profit is lost.
Stay tuned.
The 1,700 manufactured is a worldwide number. As Burt mentioned here on the forum only 371 were imported to the US.
Also, it is important to remember that the used inventory for sale is coming from predomitely dealers. That means they got a new car commission at MSRP with or without a premium and in many cases upped the resale price to current market pricing and are/will be receiving a second commission on the same car.
Many of these cars are “floor planned.” That means they are paying at least interest every month while the car is in inventory. If the car stays in inventory too long without being sold the profit is lost.
Stay tuned.
Last edited by JSwan724; 08-22-2022 at 10:57 AM.
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08-22-2022, 09:32 AM
#155
Doc:
The 1,700 manufactured is a worldwide number. As Burt mentioned here on the forum only 371 were imported to the US.
Also, it is important to remember that the used inventory for sale is coming from predomitely dealers. That means they got a new car commission at MSRP with or without a premium and in many cases upped the price to current market pricing and are/will be receiving a second commission on the same car.
Many of these care are “floor planned.” That means they are paying at least interest every month while the car is in inventory. If the car stays in inventory too long without being sold the profit is lost.
Stay tuned.
The 1,700 manufactured is a worldwide number. As Burt mentioned here on the forum only 371 were imported to the US.
Also, it is important to remember that the used inventory for sale is coming from predomitely dealers. That means they got a new car commission at MSRP with or without a premium and in many cases upped the price to current market pricing and are/will be receiving a second commission on the same car.
Many of these care are “floor planned.” That means they are paying at least interest every month while the car is in inventory. If the car stays in inventory too long without being sold the profit is lost.
Stay tuned.
I did peak at the STO but I wouldn’t be able to drive it at any loc tracks due to the DB levels
08-22-2022, 10:07 AM
#156
08-22-2022, 11:10 AM
#157
MBWorld Fanatic!
12% +- total both new and used. There are currently 7 new cars and 37 lightly used up for dealer resale.
Take a look at Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborgini, Bentley and you’ll see this game is no different for all of the high end sports cars.
Porsche won’t seelmyou a new car….”all allocations are spoken for. But they will sell you a “lightly used” (under 300 miles) used one for $60-$80k over sticker. Ferrari is in rhe same game but the used are $200k or more over sticker.
We all just need to be smart buyers.
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08-22-2022, 11:24 AM
#158
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12% +- total both new and used. There are currently 7 new cars and 37 lightly used up for dealer resale.
Take a look at Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborgini, Bentley and you’ll see this game is no different for all of the high end sports cars.
Porsche won’t seelmyou a new car….”all allocations are spoken for. But they will sell you a “lightly used” (under 300 miles) used one for $60-$80k over sticker. Ferrari is in rhe same game but the used are $200k or more over sticker.
We all just need to be smart buyers.
Take a look at Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborgini, Bentley and you’ll see this game is no different for all of the high end sports cars.
Porsche won’t seelmyou a new car….”all allocations are spoken for. But they will sell you a “lightly used” (under 300 miles) used one for $60-$80k over sticker. Ferrari is in rhe same game but the used are $200k or more over sticker.
We all just need to be smart buyers.
That said, it can't feel good for a BS owner seeing a price of $430K at Mecum though...that's typically where a buyer goes to get ripped off on their price. Meanwhile thats a good $300K less than some of the ADMs people paid as this thing hit the market.
It's also not going to help that the 2023 GT3RS just hit the market...loaded up its about the same as a GTBS price point too. And while history shows an ADM on these too, it would be unheard of to see it markup to that $400K price point. Love to be wrong because I have an allocation so I'm betting that I'm not because there is not a chance I am going to pay a huge ADM...
Also, FWIW...I think Ferrari is the only brand that doesn't do ADM's - instead they will often create an agreement with their customer that they will sell it back to the dealership if they sell within 1 year of purchase. They have the Rolex model with their customers - make a lot less than demand and pick and choose who you sell do to protect the brand image and value.
08-22-2022, 11:49 AM
#159
MBWorld Fanatic!
They all deal with it slightly differently but you're correct.
That said, it can't feel good for a BS owner seeing a price of $430K at Mecum though...that's typically where a buyer goes to get ripped off on their price. Meanwhile thats a good $300K less than some of the ADMs people paid as this thing hit the market.
It's also not going to help that the 2023 GT3RS just hit the market...loaded up its about the same as a GTBS price point too. And while history shows an ADM on these too, it would be unheard of to see it markup to that $400K price point. Love to be wrong because I have an allocation so I'm betting that I'm not because there is not a chance I am going to pay a huge ADM...
Also, FWIW...I think Ferrari is the only brand that doesn't do ADM's - instead they will often create an agreement with their customer that they will sell it back to the dealership if they sell within 1 year of purchase. They have the Rolex model with their customers - make a lot less than demand and pick and choose who you sell do to protect the brand image and value.
That said, it can't feel good for a BS owner seeing a price of $430K at Mecum though...that's typically where a buyer goes to get ripped off on their price. Meanwhile thats a good $300K less than some of the ADMs people paid as this thing hit the market.
It's also not going to help that the 2023 GT3RS just hit the market...loaded up its about the same as a GTBS price point too. And while history shows an ADM on these too, it would be unheard of to see it markup to that $400K price point. Love to be wrong because I have an allocation so I'm betting that I'm not because there is not a chance I am going to pay a huge ADM...
Also, FWIW...I think Ferrari is the only brand that doesn't do ADM's - instead they will often create an agreement with their customer that they will sell it back to the dealership if they sell within 1 year of purchase. They have the Rolex model with their customers - make a lot less than demand and pick and choose who you sell do to protect the brand image and value.
The Mecum customer paid $473 to get the car $430 to the previous owner and $43k to Mecum. That car wasn’t going anywhere without Dana and Frank getting their cut. So the REAL PRICE is $473k.
Porsche - All of thosecars were sold before they were made. Porsche is big on standing orders especially for repeat customers. Now the interesting and high market will be when the flip them and split rhe marked up price with the previous owner. I’m betting $250k over MSRP to start.
Ferrari isn’t any different tgan Porsche. There are no new cars available for sale to new customers and most models are already spoken for. Now if you want a slightly used one at $250-$300k over we may be able to help.
The real guess is what will the perceved or real recession do to the overall market. Like I said up thread these cars are mostly on floor plan and the loan interest is going to kill profits at some point.
Regards
08-22-2022, 12:09 PM
#160
12% +- total both new and used. There are currently 7 new cars and 37 lightly used up for dealer resale.
Take a look at Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborgini, Bentley and you’ll see this game is no different for all of the high end sports cars.
Porsche won’t seelmyou a new car….”all allocations are spoken for. But they will sell you a “lightly used” (under 300 miles) used one for $60-$80k over sticker. Ferrari is in rhe same game but the used are $200k or more over sticker.
We all just need to be smart buyers.
Take a look at Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborgini, Bentley and you’ll see this game is no different for all of the high end sports cars.
Porsche won’t seelmyou a new car….”all allocations are spoken for. But they will sell you a “lightly used” (under 300 miles) used one for $60-$80k over sticker. Ferrari is in rhe same game but the used are $200k or more over sticker.
We all just need to be smart buyers.
08-22-2022, 12:18 PM
#161
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2020 McLaren 720s Spider
The Mecum customer paid $473 to get the car $430 to the previous owner and $43k to Mecum. That car wasn’t going anywhere without Dana and Frank getting their cut. So the REAL PRICE is $473k.
Porsche - All of thosecars were sold before they were made. Porsche is big on standing orders especially for repeat customers. Now the interesting and high market will be when the flip them and split rhe marked up price with the previous owner. I’m betting $250k over MSRP to start.
Ferrari isn’t any different tgan Porsche. There are no new cars available for sale to new customers and most models are already spoken for. Now if you want a slightly used one at $250-$300k over we may be able to help.
The real guess is what will the perceved or real recession do to the overall market. Like I said up thread these cars are mostly on floor plan and the loan interest is going to kill profits at some point.
Regards
Porsche - All of thosecars were sold before they were made. Porsche is big on standing orders especially for repeat customers. Now the interesting and high market will be when the flip them and split rhe marked up price with the previous owner. I’m betting $250k over MSRP to start.
Ferrari isn’t any different tgan Porsche. There are no new cars available for sale to new customers and most models are already spoken for. Now if you want a slightly used one at $250-$300k over we may be able to help.
The real guess is what will the perceved or real recession do to the overall market. Like I said up thread these cars are mostly on floor plan and the loan interest is going to kill profits at some point.
Regards
Secondly, with so many GTBS cars available in the US until they start to become scarce, They are plentiful. Thanks to MB not limiting production for real demand, I don't see anything but the price continuing to drop. My point in referencing the GT3RS was to point out it complicates the cost of the car because its a similar buyer.
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Orcbolg (08-22-2022)
08-22-2022, 12:44 PM
#164
The premium that I am hearing to get one of the first GT3RS's is $200K to $250K over. It's not out of the realm in the current Porsche market.
Adding PTS and the Weissach package adds 52K to the MSRP. Not many of these cars will be built for less than a $275K MSRP.
Adding PTS and the Weissach package adds 52K to the MSRP. Not many of these cars will be built for less than a $275K MSRP.
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JSwan724 (08-22-2022)
08-22-2022, 01:11 PM
#165
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2020 McLaren 720s Spider
The current GT3 ADMs and the general insanity that happened in the market over the last 18 months has run its course. The correction is coming at a time during its launch - there are a finite number of people willing to pay that kind of speculative pricing, and again, history has not been kind in the long term to these ADM fees; I doubt these cars will be the exception and it will take years to find out.
A $550K Porsche 911 (if the ADM speculation is correct) is now competing with the the Ferrari F8, Ferrari 488 Pista, McLaren 765...and makes the BS look like a bargain. I'm not taking that bet. lol.
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Orcbolg (08-22-2022)
08-22-2022, 01:53 PM
#167
Currently in Canada I believe there are over 100 GT3 (variants and years) for sale on Auto Trader. Price seems to be coming down in this market. Only a few BS and the are still holding onto the higher asks. Really looking for that to dip.
The new GT3 RS is savage.
The new GT3 RS is savage.
08-22-2022, 02:06 PM
#168
In my experience, the people that are paying the crazy high market adjustments are not worried if they can pick up the cars later for less.
We live in an instant gratification world.
As with the SLS Black Series, once all of the inventory being held at dealerships dries up, we will see where the GT Black settles.
JSwan mentioned it, eventually dealers will have to move the cars and this may cause the prices to come down further but time will tell.
Once all the cars are in the hands of real owners we will see what people are willing to pay for them.
The fact that they are still basically commanding $100K+ over MSRP is a good sign for the long term.
In the end a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
We live in an instant gratification world.
As with the SLS Black Series, once all of the inventory being held at dealerships dries up, we will see where the GT Black settles.
JSwan mentioned it, eventually dealers will have to move the cars and this may cause the prices to come down further but time will tell.
Once all the cars are in the hands of real owners we will see what people are willing to pay for them.
The fact that they are still basically commanding $100K+ over MSRP is a good sign for the long term.
In the end a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
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08-22-2022, 02:32 PM
#169
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2020 McLaren 720s Spider
In my experience, the people that are paying the crazy high market adjustments are not worried if they can pick up the cars later for less.
We live in an instant gratification world.
As with the SLS Black Series, once all of the inventory being held at dealerships dries up, we will see where the GT Black settles.
JSwan mentioned it, eventually dealers will have to move the cars and this may cause the prices to come down further but time will tell.
Once all the cars are in the hands of real owners we will see what people are willing to pay for them.
The fact that they are still basically commanding $100K+ over MSRP is a good sign for the long term.
In the end a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
We live in an instant gratification world.
As with the SLS Black Series, once all of the inventory being held at dealerships dries up, we will see where the GT Black settles.
JSwan mentioned it, eventually dealers will have to move the cars and this may cause the prices to come down further but time will tell.
Once all the cars are in the hands of real owners we will see what people are willing to pay for them.
The fact that they are still basically commanding $100K+ over MSRP is a good sign for the long term.
In the end a car is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
If Mercedes would have limited the production to that of the SLS pricing would be different but you know what they say about ifs and buts.
It has 3 major headwinds:
1. they made too many - supply exceeds demand
2 the market is generally correcting and will be for the next 2 years
3. the competition in this price point is fierce and proven (and expanding)
Not a troll; been on here a while and...I LOVE LOVE LOVE my GTR Pro, but Im just looking objectively at the market and its pressures. I suppose if I had a BS I would hope to feel differently and perhaps see a more silver lining - not sure. I just hate paying too much for anything, even in an emotional purchase.
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Orcbolg (08-22-2022)
08-22-2022, 02:42 PM
#170
The SLS BS a benchmark that I think created the mess in the first place. Much more limited in its production and of course the overall uniqueness of the car itself. Not to say that the GT BS isn't amazing but comparing the two just doesn't make a whole lot of sense except that the GT was its replacement. Also, I would replace the word "commanding" with the word "asking"....and unfortunately, for now, not really getting.
If Mercedes would have limited the production to that of the SLS pricing would be different but you know what they say about ifs and buts.
It has 3 major headwinds:
1. they made too many - supply exceeds demand
2 the market is generally correcting and will be for the next 2 years
3. the competition in this price point is fierce and proven (and expanding)
Not a troll; been on here a while and...I LOVE LOVE LOVE my GTR Pro, but Im just looking objectively at the market and its pressures. I suppose if I had a BS I would hope to feel differently and perhaps see a more silver lining - not sure. I just hate paying too much for anything, even in an emotional purchase.
If Mercedes would have limited the production to that of the SLS pricing would be different but you know what they say about ifs and buts.
It has 3 major headwinds:
1. they made too many - supply exceeds demand
2 the market is generally correcting and will be for the next 2 years
3. the competition in this price point is fierce and proven (and expanding)
Not a troll; been on here a while and...I LOVE LOVE LOVE my GTR Pro, but Im just looking objectively at the market and its pressures. I suppose if I had a BS I would hope to feel differently and perhaps see a more silver lining - not sure. I just hate paying too much for anything, even in an emotional purchase.
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Skilly (08-22-2022)
08-22-2022, 02:49 PM
#171
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
No matter how people look at the price potential for the BS I think the is a very unusual discussion about AMG's. It is incredible that some of these cars moved for $700k; normally the question was how quick an AMG depreciates, not the other way around 
Even the SLS BS had very little appreciation over this time period if memory serves.
Even the SLS BS had very little appreciation over this time period if memory serves.
08-22-2022, 02:53 PM
#172
No matter how people look at the price potential for the BS I think the is a very unusual discussion about AMG's. It is incredible that some of these cars moved for $700k; normally the question was how quick an AMG depreciates, not the other way around
Even the SLS BS had very little appreciation over this time period if memory serves.
Even the SLS BS had very little appreciation over this time period if memory serves.
08-22-2022, 03:07 PM
#173
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08-22-2022, 03:14 PM
#174
This is why I buy cars that I like, not cars to speculate. If the reason someone bought a GT Black is because they missed out on getting a SLS Black series, there are a lot better ways to invest your money. I bought mine because it represents the best track focused street car that AMG could produce at that moment in time.
Time will tell if supply exceeds demand. 371 cars in the US isn't really that many.
The market is correcting itself but it always is. Just look at the Carrera GT and the SLS Black
The competition in this segment is rarely an "or" proposition.
No one knows what a GT Black will be worth in the next six months, one year or two years, let alone five.
I agree that in speculating on future prices, the only thing that is probably true is that we will all be wrong.
Many of us bought our GT Blacks at MSRP. If I can drive it for a year and get my money back out of it, I will be more than happy.
More and I will be ecstatic.
Time will tell if supply exceeds demand. 371 cars in the US isn't really that many.
The market is correcting itself but it always is. Just look at the Carrera GT and the SLS Black
The competition in this segment is rarely an "or" proposition.
No one knows what a GT Black will be worth in the next six months, one year or two years, let alone five.
I agree that in speculating on future prices, the only thing that is probably true is that we will all be wrong.
Many of us bought our GT Blacks at MSRP. If I can drive it for a year and get my money back out of it, I will be more than happy.
More and I will be ecstatic.
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08-22-2022, 03:17 PM
#175
No matter how people look at the price potential for the BS I think the is a very unusual discussion about AMG's. It is incredible that some of these cars moved for $700k; normally the question was how quick an AMG depreciates, not the other way around
Even the SLS BS had very little appreciation over this time period if memory serves.
Even the SLS BS had very little appreciation over this time period if memory serves.
