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Did another day on the CR-S and was able to run a near optimal 1:43.7. The tires are wearing a lot better than the C2ZP and show no signs of heat cycling out yet. They were again terrible in the afternoon heat, but the trade off could be worth it for some who is not looking for every last second and wants something a bit more friendly on the limit. Here is a video of the lap:
I've been comparing the Cup 2 ZPs that are an OEM option ROW and came standard on the C7 Z07. The Cup 2R ZP won't fit the stock wheels. I am curious to see what the car would do with the Black Series Cup 2R though. I'm also curious to see what tire life will be like on proper heat cycled C2ZPs. Guess there is only one way to find out!
they are the new Michelin SC2 ZP R as OEM on the C8 Corvette Z07. Early reports are they are lasting longer on the C8 versus the C7 ZP versions and very fast. Let us know if they can be made to fit on your car.
They definitely won't fit since they are 20" front and 21" rear. I would need new wheels to even try. If I'm getting new wheels I would set the car up to run Supercar 3R.
They definitely won't fit since they are 20" front and 21" rear. I would need new wheels to even try. If I'm getting new wheels I would set the car up to run Supercar 3R.
I hated those tires on my C7Z. Dangerously slippery outlap. Not good until third lap. Great after that. Even worse though was the second day I lost 3-4 seconds with them. Not for me.
faster than AR1 /CRS first day but slower by day 2
I finally killed the CR-S and the results are pretty surprising. They definitely change my opinion of the tire for the better. While being undoubtably slower, they last roughly twice as long. On the C2ZP I was able to do 66 laps and on the CR-S I was able to do 138. Granted, the C2ZP were not heat cycled so I am not sure how much that would have extended their life, but I could have run the CR-S a little longer if I had rotated the rears (I only rotated the fronts). So the cost of being 1.3s faster over a 1:4X lap comes out to be about twice as much. You also would need to factor in the time and cost of mounting and balancing twice as often as well. I would also like to note that the stock alignment wore the CR-S down extremely evenly.
I finally killed the CR-S and the results are pretty surprising. They definitely change my opinion of the tire for the better. While being undoubtably slower, they last roughly twice as long. On the C2ZP I was able to do 66 laps and on the CR-S I was able to do 138. Granted, the C2ZP were not heat cycled so I am not sure how much that would have extended their life, but I could have run the CR-S a little longer if I had rotated the rears (I only rotated the fronts). So the cost of being 1.3s faster over a 1:4X lap comes out to be about twice as much. You also would need to factor in the time and cost of mounting and balancing twice as often as well. I would also like to note that the stock alignment wore the CR-S down extremely evenly.
I'm taking one out for third track day next week. So I expect to be in the 150 lap range (@2.2 miles). Running hard and fast. They look to be lasting exactly the same as the AR1.
Advice for anyone trying these is you need to go about 3 psi higher than AR1 because of the softer sidewall. Talking to someone last time out and they said they like higher pressures. Furthermore they said they find the CRS to be - little faster than AR1 🤷♂️. Downside atleast for now is they are $3-400 more than a set of AR1
@dllhg I’m not sure I would run 3psi more. I use a longacre tire pyrometer to help set my pressures and the tires seems to work best in the 30 to 34psi range. Any more than that and the center gets far too hot which is indicative of ballooning. I also run 1 psi less front than rear.
@user33 I only ran the original Cup 2 tires for a few sessions before they started chunking. They were 4 years old at that point so not a very good test but I would imagine a fresh set would last a similar amount of time as the CR-S.
Here are my fronts at time of retirement. They were retired because of the rears, just hard to take a pic of those while still on the car.
I just purchased my GT-R and had track 2 sessions so far (one of them cut short due to brakefluid overheating, not sure if anyone else experienced that?!). I am running Cup 2s (not ZP) and find that they take a few laps to warm up properly but start greasing up after 4-5 hot laps. Is this normal? I heard very good reviews about the CR-S v2s, with everyone saying they outperform the Cup 2s everytime, its interesting you found otherwise. Maybe the ZP is better than the normal ones?
I am also very unsure what pressures to aim for when tires are up to temp, what would you recommend?
I just purchased my GT-R and had track 2 sessions so far (one of them cut short due to brakefluid overheating, not sure if anyone else experienced that?!). I am running Cup 2s (not ZP) and find that they take a few laps to warm up properly but start greasing up after 4-5 hot laps. Is this normal? I heard very good reviews about the CR-S v2s, with everyone saying they outperform the Cup 2s everytime, its interesting you found otherwise. Maybe the ZP is better than the normal ones?
I am also very unsure what pressures to aim for when tires are up to temp, what would you recommend?
Thanks!
Regarding the Cup 2s, Michelin’s technical bulletin for both the Pilot Sport Cup 2 and Cup 2 R specifies an optimal hot pressure of 36 PSI (see attached PDF).
I just purchased my GT-R and had track 2 sessions so far (one of them cut short due to brakefluid overheating, not sure if anyone else experienced that?!). I am running Cup 2s (not ZP) and find that they take a few laps to warm up properly but start greasing up after 4-5 hot laps. Is this normal? I heard very good reviews about the CR-S v2s, with everyone saying they outperform the Cup 2s everytime, its interesting you found otherwise. Maybe the ZP is better than the normal ones?
I am also very unsure what pressures to aim for when tires are up to temp, what would you recommend?
Thanks!
CUP 2 does get a little greasy for me just past session halfway point, good to go after a lap and a half warm up.
CUP 2R is faster lap times, same warm up (MO1 and MO2…..MO1A turns on quicker)….seems to hold up well most of session, a little greasy at end. Not going to get much more than 2-4 days out of a set if pushing….
CRSv2 lasts much longer and is fast.
Vitour Tempesta P1 not as fast ultimately as a fresh CUP 2R, but last forever, and put consistent laps in for entire sessions, and day after day after day….
ZP is not in same league as Cup 2R, CRSv2, Vitour….I think many on this forum fell in love with it because it was only option way back, but many have surpassed it. I also don’t find the ZP skinny sidewall to be the best for heat management consistency.
Now, if you want to run properly width and offset spec 19’s all the way around, and throw on some slicks from Pirelli, Michelin, Hankook, well, that’s an entirely different conversation and will add a lot of peak grip, where they will be faster than all mentioned above IF, and that’s a BIG IF, if the driver has the experience and confidence to carry the additional speed they can achieve through corners.
Nothing wrong with not having that confidence in them, still a great option for track days, considering scrubs can be had for $500-600 a set, vs $2,000 for new treaded tires….
I just purchased my GT-R and had track 2 sessions so far (one of them cut short due to brakefluid overheating, not sure if anyone else experienced that?!). I am running Cup 2s (not ZP) and find that they take a few laps to warm up properly but start greasing up after 4-5 hot laps. Is this normal? I heard very good reviews about the CR-S v2s, with everyone saying they outperform the Cup 2s everytime, its interesting you found otherwise. Maybe the ZP is better than the normal ones?
I am also very unsure what pressures to aim for when tires are up to temp, what would you recommend?
Thanks!
What type of brakes does your GT-R have?
Regardless: change to a high quality DOT 4 brake fluid. Many use Castrol SRF, I used to myself. I ended up using Endless 650 as it gave me a more consistently firm brake pedal.
If you have Iron rotors, you should seriously consider brake ducts F & R, especially if you’re running with the ESP fully on as that will heat the rears up quickly. If you’re an experienced track driver, or expect to attend multiple times a year, even if you have CCBs, then consider Tixt ducts. They’re a great investment that you can always recoup most of your cost by selling after you trade/sell the GT-R.
The Cup 2s are not a great track tyre imho, as they’re slow and overheat, (get greasy) quickly. The ZP is a much better tyre in that it won’t get greasy until many more laps, and is easily 2-3 seconds/lap quicker. They do wear fairly quickly; if you’re quick you’ll maybe get 2 track weekends out of them. Advantage is you can drive to/from the track on them.
As for psi: I started with cold pressures right at 26 psi and was looking for 32-33 psi hot across the width of the tyre; 36 psi was always too hot for me.
As above though, there are far more options re: tyres now.
BTW: make sure you have a good track alignment on the car to help the tyres do their job better. I had a square -2.5 camber without aggressive Toe, and it was fine on the Street also.
CUP 2 does get a little greasy for me just past session halfway point, good to go after a lap and a half warm up.
CUP 2R is faster lap times, same warm up (MO1 and MO2…..MO1A turns on quicker)….seems to hold up well most of session, a little greasy at end. Not going to get much more than 2-4 days out of a set if pushing….
CRSv2 lasts much longer and is fast.
Vitour Tempesta P1 not as fast ultimately as a fresh CUP 2R, but last forever, and put consistent laps in for entire sessions, and day after day after day….
ZP is not in same league as Cup 2R, CRSv2, Vitour….I think many on this forum fell in love with it because it was only option way back, but many have surpassed it. I also don’t find the ZP skinny sidewall to be the best for heat management consistency.
Now, if you want to run properly width and offset spec 19’s all the way around, and throw on some slicks from Pirelli, Michelin, Hankook, well, that’s an entirely different conversation and will add a lot of peak grip, where they will be faster than all mentioned above IF, and that’s a BIG IF, if the driver has the experience and confidence to carry the additional speed they can achieve through corners.
Nothing wrong with not having that confidence in them, still a great option for track days, considering scrubs can be had for $500-600 a set, vs $2,000 for new treaded tires….
Thanks for introducing the Vitour Tempesta P1, I was not familiar with this tyre. Should I go for this instead of the CR-S? Neither of the Michelin convinced me at all. I would not want to go full slicks. Thanks
Regardless: change to a high quality DOT 4 brake fluid. Many use Castrol SRF, I used to myself. I ended up using Endless 650 as it gave me a more consistently firm brake pedal.
If you have Iron rotors, you should seriously consider brake ducts F & R, especially if you’re running with the ESP fully on as that will heat the rears up quickly. If you’re an experienced track driver, or expect to attend multiple times a year, even if you have CCBs, then consider Tixt ducts. They’re a great investment that you can always recoup most of your cost by selling after you trade/sell the GT-R.
The Cup 2s are not a great track tyre imho, as they’re slow and overheat, (get greasy) quickly. The ZP is a much better tyre in that it won’t get greasy until many more laps, and is easily 2-3 seconds/lap quicker. They do wear fairly quickly; if you’re quick you’ll maybe get 2 track weekends out of them. Advantage is you can drive to/from the track on them.
As for psi: I started with cold pressures right at 26 psi and was looking for 32-33 psi hot across the width of the tyre; 36 psi was always too hot for me.
As above though, there are far more options re: tyres now.
BTW: make sure you have a good track alignment on the car to help the tyres do their job better. I had a square -2.5 camber without aggressive Toe, and it was fine on the Street also.
I have CCBs. However, I honestly think that they might be too costly to run for track days (I dont use the car for anything else really) and as many Porsche guys do, I am thinking about going steel brakes with very high quality track pads and brake ducts (thanks for the suggestion) and keeping the CCBs for resell.
Alignment wise, should I get camber shims or the car should have enough camber with supsension set to lowest? 32-33 hot is what works for me too.
I used up a set of vitour P1s and switched to CRS (just for comparison). Pace wise they're very similar (to me at least) and both very fast, I was a bit faster on the CRS but that could also be driver improvement.
I found the Vitours were wearing very well if you get the pressures right, you can get them right to the cords, I did ~5 track days on them and they still had plenty left (pace started to drop off a bit but still good).
Never had a great time with normal cup 2s, tried both 180tw and 240tw version, took too long to warm and got greasy too fast
btw someone here on the forums did a wear chart for CCBs and found that they should last 30+ track days (with proper cooling), so might not be as uneconomical as you might first think.
For alignment, without shims I was at -2 ish camber, ended up at -2.5 all around with shims, would recommend it esp since its mostly a track car for you
I have CCBs. However, I honestly think that they might be too costly to run for track days (I dont use the car for anything else really) and as many Porsche guys do, I am thinking about going steel brakes with very high quality track pads and brake ducts (thanks for the suggestion) and keeping the CCBs for resell.
Alignment wise, should I get camber shims or the car should have enough camber with supsension set to lowest? 32-33 hot is what works for me too.
Normally if you’re primarily using the car for track days I’d say just purchase an AP Racing BBK and put the OEM CCBs on a shelf. Unfortunately there is no such kit legitimately offered by AP, and you should not purchase any form of ‘adapters’ to make an off-the-shelf kit ‘work’. I think your best bet is to replace the CCBs with Girodisc iron rotors if offered. Also there is a new ‘player’ you might want to check on and that is https://www.ctecarbon.com, as they are using the newest strands for their CCBs that are purported to be extremely long lasting and at a much better price point. Again, I am not sure if they have rotors yet for your GT-R.
Alignment: purchase at least 2 boxes of OEM shims and again, since you’re a track person, get an aggressive alignment. others have got -3.0+ Camber iirc.
I have CCBs. However, I honestly think that they might be too costly to run for track days (I dont use the car for anything else really) and as many Porsche guys do, I am thinking about going steel brakes with very high quality track pads and brake ducts (thanks for the suggestion) and keeping the CCBs for resell. ...
As others have mentioned, the TiKT brake-cooling ducts are advised. Proper track-oriented brake cooling seems to be something that AMG doesn't really do (sad, given their relatively excellent heat management when it comes to the power train).
If you search, you'll find some good stuff on GTR/Pro higher-camber alignment. Seems like around -2.5-2.7 deg is a nice compromise that yields good track performance and tire wear with not-too-compromised (i.e., inner-edge) street-running tire wear. Here's one: https://mbworld.org/forums/coupe-roa...shim-info.html
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
