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Can I run CCB front with iron rears ? Insane rotor wear
I have about 20-25 days on my GTR since i bought it a little over a year ago.
The brake wear is just getting out of hand.
Back at Laguna. Running hard. 2 days on $700 GP30 pads up front and now looks like 3 days on new Girodisc rotors. 🤯. Was getting 5 before. Yes I have Tikt cooling ducts. So I’m at $550 per day front brakes. Insane. Rears last forever. No cooling ducts. Have ten days on pads and still thick. Rotors fine. Doing the math going by what someone else I know gets with his CCB running similar track times I’d be at about $390 per day. A lot less hassle. I’m changing pads and rotor rings constantly.
I still have my front CCB rotors. I’m still running the factory CCB calipers. Just need pads. Sold my rear rotors king time ago. Any pros/ cons to mixing them ? Keep running the rear iron brakes and use the CCM and Lagid pads up front ?
My tech instinct tells me it's just a material and weight difference. What matters are the brake bias, pad type/size surface to rotor area etc. Also with CCM in front, potential more oversteer with less weight on the front. May work as an advantage for your driving style?
Any info pad/caliper surface area comparing the CCM setup and AP setup? You might have posted it and I missed it.
Also have you used brake temp indicator/paint to monitor caliper/rotor temp?
FWIW, running CCBs only on the front is not unusual. Some cars such as the C63S for example come that way from the factory if ordered with the CCB option. However, the C63 has a different weight distribution, so the rear brakes do less work than with the GT that has more weight on the rear than the front. The electronic brakeforce distribution will sort out the bias etc., so technically it should be fine.
My tech instinct tells me it's just a material and weight difference. What matters are the brake bias, pad type/size surface to rotor area etc. Also with CCM in front, potential more oversteer with less weight on the front. May work as an advantage for your driving style?
Any info pad/caliper surface area comparing the CCM setup and AP setup? You might have posted it and I missed it.
Also have you used brake temp indicator/paint to monitor caliper/rotor temp?
What about titanium backing plates for the pads? These have worked wonders for me in the past.
I have the titanium backing plates on front.
I only used the AP kit a couple times. Totally insufficient braking. Far Worse than factory.
I’m running Girodisc conversion on all four. GP 30 pads front and 25 rears.
I hit them with temp gun but they already cool by the time I hit the pit. Still seeing 600-700F. I did put some paint on 800 and also 1100. Haven’t checked it yet.
FWIW, running CCBs only on the front is not unusual. Some cars such as the C63S for example come that way from the factory if ordered with the CCB option. However, the C63 has a different weight distribution, so the rear brakes do less work than with the GT that has more weight on the rear than the front. The electronic brakeforce distribution will sort out the bias etc., so technically it should be fine.
Im really leaning towards doing this. Even better is run the CCB rear too. Weight alone it makes sense. I’d prob be 40-50 lbs lighter with all CCB. Less rotating mass.
Finished a great day at Laguna today. New PB. 1:35.05 with 2 day old AR1s. 1:35.4 as well.
I had brake pedal go to floor right after last session when I went to pit . Haven’t had this before with Girodisc setup. Running Endless 650. Only two days on it. Once cooled it did not resolve itself and stayed like that. Was able to get it bled and make the next four sessions.
last session pedal got soft and really limited braking. Almost went off on T5 😮. This time the pedal came back when it cooled off. Not sure wtf caused it either time. They did find air in system when they bled. Was in rear. I had someone change my rear pads before event. Perhaps they let air in 🤷♂️. Front pads looked thin. GP30. 2nd day.
Only change I made was GP25 in rear cs the GP 20 I had before …….
Finished a great day at Laguna today. New PB. 1:35.05 with 2 day old AR1s. 1:35.4 as well.
I had brake pedal go to floor right after last session when I went to pit . Haven’t had this before with Girodisc setup. Running Endless 650. Only two days on it. Once cooled it did not resolve itself and stayed like that. Was able to get it bled and make the next four sessions.
last session pedal got soft and really limited braking. Almost went off on T5 😮. This time the pedal came back when it cooled off. Not sure wtf caused it either time. They did find air in system when they bled. Was in rear. I had someone change my rear pads before event. Perhaps they let air in 🤷♂️. Front pads looked thin. GP30. 2nd day.
Only change I made was GP25 in rear cs the GP 20 I had before …….
Your brake fluid boiled. Are you using high temp fluid?
Finished a great day at Laguna today. New PB. 1:35.05 with 2 day old AR1s. 1:35.4 as well.
I had brake pedal go to floor right after last session when I went to pit . Haven’t had this before with Girodisc setup. Running Endless 650. Only two days on it. Once cooled it did not resolve itself and stayed like that. Was able to get it bled and make the next four sessions.
last session pedal got soft and really limited braking. Almost went off on T5 😮. This time the pedal came back when it cooled off. Not sure wtf caused it either time. They did find air in system when they bled. Was in rear. I had someone change my rear pads before event. Perhaps they let air in 🤷♂️. Front pads looked thin. GP30. 2nd day.
Only change I made was GP25 in rear cs the GP 20 I had before …….
I only used the AP kit a couple times. Totally insufficient braking. Far Worse than factory.
I’m running Girodisc conversion on all four. GP 30 pads front and 25 rears.
I hit them with temp gun but they already cool by the time I hit the pit. Still seeing 600-700F. I did put some paint on 800 and also 1100. Haven’t checked it yet.
There is no actual AP Racing system for the GTR. You posted to the board that a third party had modified an AP Racing setup for the car. Are you even surprised that you had poor results? You’re lucky you didn’t damn well kill yourself tbh. AP Racing BBKs are some of the absolute best brakes in existence and I’ve never read anywhere that someone hasn’t experienced anything other than phenomenal performance from them. You know this from Corvette Forum.
My suggestion about reaching out to Jeff was to see if he could offer you any advice in what is obviously an extremely poorly balanced, front to rear, braking ‘system’ on your car, as well as see whether there are any AP Racing ‘J-Hook’ rotors designed specifically to replace the OEM hats and rings for the GTR along with differing pad options.
If you’re boiling Endless 650, you desperately need to diagnose the braking issues you’re experiencing as it is a severe safety issue both for you and others sharing the track with you.
There is no actual AP Racing system for the GTR. You posted to the board that a third party had modified an AP Racing setup for the car. Are you even surprised that you had poor results? You’re lucky you didn’t damn well kill yourself tbh. AP Racing BBKs are some of the absolute best brakes in existence and I’ve never read anywhere that someone hasn’t experienced anything other than phenomenal performance from them. You know this from Corvette Forum.
My suggestion about reaching out to Jeff was to see if he could offer you any advice in what is obviously an extremely poorly balanced, front to rear, braking ‘system’ on your car, as well as see whether there are any AP Racing ‘J-Hook’ rotors designed specifically to replace the OEM hats and rings for the GTR along with differing pad options.
If you’re boiling Endless 650, you desperately need to diagnose the braking issues you’re experiencing as it is a severe safety issue both for you and others sharing the track with you.
Let’s back up a minute here if we could. Not sure how this got derailed talking about AP brakes honestly 🤷♂️. I never brought them up in this thread. First two track days over a year ago I used this kit for the AP setup. Posted my results. I also made it clear it wasn’t a lot from Essex. I had Zero knowledge it wasn’t a regular AP kit for this platform initially. I did a search for AP kit and my car and a site popped up selling a “kit” for AP brakes. After horrible results and talking to several people including Essex realized I got duped into buying an untested POS “kit” for this car. I even got four sets of Giro disc rotors the same place told me to get and they were also wrong parts for a CCM car. Another 3-4k wasted 🤯. I quickly switched over to full Girodisc CCM conversion. That is what I have used for a good 20 track days. The proper conversion kit , rotors and pads front and back.
hope they clears the air about the whole AP topic that had nothing to do with this thread.
I should add that Girodisc had been extremely helpful in helping me figure this all out. Just put new giro rotors on and new pads front and back for a big event on Wed at Laguna. 8 sessions. Last session is 45 min. Low car count. Shooting for 1:33s. 🤞
I do recall seeing a few months ago on a FB GTR page, a guy was trying to sell an actual complete brand new AP brake kit from the GT4 race car.
Rotors. Calipers. Pads.
He posted pictures of the AP boxes everything came in. Pictures were not clear enough to make out the AP part numbers.
Supposedly AP will not sell the the actual GT4 spec kit to the general public.
I replaced my Girodisc fronts just before I made the trip down to Laguna Seca. Got maybe 15 days on them, and 2 sets of pads per rotor.
Rears are fine still.
Also there is a company that resurfaces the CC rotors. I think the cost is about $1500 per rotor. Been a while since I looked at their website.
The GTR operating costs are very high. This is why I am building a second track car that will be cheaper to track... in theory.
The GTR will be 1-2 days per month on the home track and for trips to other tracks.
I do recall seeing a few months ago on a FB GTR page, a guy was trying to sell an actual complete brand new AP brake kit from the GT4 race car.
Rotors. Calipers. Pads.
He posted pictures of the AP boxes everything came in. Pictures were not clear enough to make out the AP part numbers.
Supposedly AP will not sell the the actual GT4 spec kit to the general public.
I replaced my Girodisc fronts just before I made the trip down to Laguna Seca. Got maybe 15 days on them, and 2 sets of pads per rotor.
Rears are fine still.
Also there is a company that resurfaces the CC rotors. I think the cost is about $1500 per rotor. Been a while since I looked at their website.
The GTR operating costs are very high. This is why I am building a second track car that will be cheaper to track... in theory.
The GTR will be 1-2 days per month on the home track and for trips to other tracks.
oh man. Be sweet to get the GT4 brakes. PM me if you have link.
oh man. Be sweet to get the GT4 brakes. PM me if you have link.
I am sending you the FB link. 9000 euros.
If I was not building a second track car I would have bought these already.
I am still tempted seeing this again. But if I can get a season out of the Girodisc fronts then I am relatively happy.
There are other pictures in the post. I think you can pull most of the part numbers from the ad but the brackets are most important.
I now wonder if these part numbers are in the AP catalogue...
Also if this is still for sale... I do have the means to reproduce the brackets
I am sending you the FB link. 9000 euros.
If I was not building a second track car I would have bought these already.
I am still tempted seeing this again. But if I can get a season out of the Girodisc fronts then I am relatively happy.
There are other pictures in the post. I think you can pull most of the part numbers from the ad but the brackets are most important.
I now wonder if these part numbers are in the AP catalogue...
Also if this is still for sale... I do have the means to reproduce the brackets
could be amazing. My only concern is this was developed for a car 600 lbs lighter. I just can’t afford to take any chances again unless I know it’s proven on our platform.
every day I go back and forth thinking about trying the CCM on track. Someone I know has had good results. 20 track days so far and he runs close to my times at Laguna Seca.
The OEM CCM braking system is excellent with superb balance and fade resistance.
Replace the pads with Pagid RSC1s;
Install Tikt brake ducts F & R
Replace the pads when they are worn by 2/3rds. This will protect the rotors from being exposed to too much heat and oxidising quickly. Caveat: the inner pads wear quicker than the outers and can taper, so pay close attention unless you enjoy replacing the expensive rotors. When it is time to replace them think about replacing with ST (Surface Transform) rotors which can be refurbished if they are made for the car.
I am sending you the FB link. 9000 euros.
There are other pictures in the post. I think you can pull most of the part numbers from the ad but the brackets are most important.
I now wonder if these part numbers are in the AP catalogue...
Also if this is still for sale... I do have the means to reproduce the brackets
I had previously asked the seller who is based in Italy for fitment guidance, and was informed that the GT R "stub axle" (i think he meant hub) would have to be cut and modified to accommodate the pictured "AP Racing" Kit.
Perhaps more disappointing was that the Caliper Brackets were reportedly built by a "Mercedes F1 Collaborator" and not by AP Racing themselves (seller did not provide more specifics), and with appearance as above.
Front Caliper Brackets are shown in Canucklehead's photos - they are the silver brackets - much too thin for my liking, considering vehicle weight.
The OEM CCM braking system is excellent with superb balance and fade resistance.
Replace the pads with Pagid RSC1s;
Install Tikt brake ducts F & R
Replace the pads when they are worn by 2/3rds. This will protect the rotors from being exposed to too much heat and oxidising quickly. Caveat: the inner pads wear quicker than the outers and can taper, so pay close attention unless you enjoy replacing the expensive rotors. When it is time to replace them think about replacing with ST (Surface Transform) rotors which can be refurbished if they are made for the car.
I have front CCM front rotors with 8k street miles. On them I couldn’t use. I also have front Tikt ducts as well I have been using.
for me the outer pads and calipers are much hotter. Opposite side from the Tikt ducts. 🤷♂️
08-26-2023, 10:20 PM
