Swirls on black W211, advice needed...
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2003 W211
Swirls on black W211, advice needed...
My wife has a 2003 E-Class which is covered in swirls (and in the trunk, full of water spots)... I have tried the following: wash/dry, clay, 2 or 3 passes of Menzerna IP (on yellow pad), Menzerna FPII (i forget if it was on black pad), Poorboy's EX-P sealant (on blue pad)... although it created depth and gloss on the paint (which looked much better than prior the treatment), it failed to get at least half of the swirls...
Well, now it's 4 months later and I'm ready to do this again, but hopefully this time I will be armed with the proper tools... Any recommendations on compounds or polishes (or pads, if necessary) are most welcomed... Or if I should any other steps to this process (this time I'm considering adding a glaze as well), please advice...
By the way, I live in Maui so I can order any product of the Zaino line from Pakshak (if that is what is recommended) or any other product that any online retailer carries... At this point, paint correction will be my first and foremost priority, followed by protection and ongoing maintenance...
Edit: I am currently out of the country and unable to post pictures... I'd prefer to order whatever I need now and have it ready when I get home...
Well, now it's 4 months later and I'm ready to do this again, but hopefully this time I will be armed with the proper tools... Any recommendations on compounds or polishes (or pads, if necessary) are most welcomed... Or if I should any other steps to this process (this time I'm considering adding a glaze as well), please advice...
By the way, I live in Maui so I can order any product of the Zaino line from Pakshak (if that is what is recommended) or any other product that any online retailer carries... At this point, paint correction will be my first and foremost priority, followed by protection and ongoing maintenance...
Edit: I am currently out of the country and unable to post pictures... I'd prefer to order whatever I need now and have it ready when I get home...
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2008 F-250, 2007 GL450
I assume you used Lake Country pads or something with similar color convention? What kind of machine did you use? What do you mean by ‘3 passes’?
You may have moved the polisher too quickly. If you’re using a PC you should be going about 1 inch per second.
You may have moved the polisher too quickly. If you’re using a PC you should be going about 1 inch per second.
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2003 W211
And yes, I'll post photos of before/after when I get home (at which time I have hopefully gained enough advice on this forum and purchased the recommended materials)...
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From: NY
Sorry I didn't see this post earlier, not sure how I missed it. The PC 7424 is relatively easy to use for a first time user, but it does take some practice to really maximize it's potential. If I really want to remove swirls I'll apply a good amount of pressure to the back of the buffer to really work polishes in to the surface while on speed 6. Using this method with the IP and Yellow Pad you should be able to remove about 50% - 70% of the light surface imperfections in the paint. Therefore your results of only removing about 50% of the swirls is not totally unreasonable. The PC 7424 does have it's limitations as compared to a higher speed orbital buffer (Flex XC 3401 VRG) or a rotary buffer (Flex L3403 VRG) . These buffers generate significantly more heat and pressure which helps work the polish in better. With these buffers you can expect to see a more noticeable improvement in the reduction of swirls.
As far as additional products you would probably get slightly better results with a more aggressive polish (Menzerna Power Gloss) and the yellow pad. A glaze would be nice as well as it's designed to help hide some of remaining imperfections. It also adds surface gloss for a deeper shine.
Greg @ Detailed Image
As far as additional products you would probably get slightly better results with a more aggressive polish (Menzerna Power Gloss) and the yellow pad. A glaze would be nice as well as it's designed to help hide some of remaining imperfections. It also adds surface gloss for a deeper shine.
Greg @ Detailed Image
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From: Seattle, WA
'03 CLK 55
well... first, you dont need anyother polishing product. whatevery you are using (Menzerna) is one of the best polisher you can buy. what you need is better machine. but if you dont know how to buff or working on buffer, you should take it to professional to get the swirls off. Flex might help it, but no one can guarantee you that it will take the swirls off since no one saw it in person.
Flex is def. stronger and more capable DA than Portercable. but it is still DA.
Good Luck
Flex is def. stronger and more capable DA than Portercable. but it is still DA.
Good Luck
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Silver CLS550, Blk M45, Lexus GX470 & an endless fleet of Avis Premium Rental Cars
I got this.......... here is a list of things you'll need:
First off - you'll NEED a decent buffer 6 or 8 inch. I do not recommend using hand power for this project. Your results will suck a$$, trust me. So, buy a buffer.
I suggest doing this on a small portion of the car just to build you confidence. I'm no pro, but I know a little something bout this. I took directions over the phone from a friend and had great sucess on my black car.
1. wash the paint with a good quality soap (i use wizards brand)
2. after it drying the car I use an "extra cut 3M compound 1200 grit (part num. 06060) Use a good buffer with clean pads.
3. Next, I use the "3M swirl mark remover" part num 06064 (this stuff is formulated for black cars and it's a swirl rmover and wax I think) Apply with different pad on buffer , preferably a foam that fits on you buffer
4. I use wizards shine master polish with a soft foam pad on the buffer.
take note of the 3m bottles. These 3m products are the best.
First off - you'll NEED a decent buffer 6 or 8 inch. I do not recommend using hand power for this project. Your results will suck a$$, trust me. So, buy a buffer.
I suggest doing this on a small portion of the car just to build you confidence. I'm no pro, but I know a little something bout this. I took directions over the phone from a friend and had great sucess on my black car.
1. wash the paint with a good quality soap (i use wizards brand)
2. after it drying the car I use an "extra cut 3M compound 1200 grit (part num. 06060) Use a good buffer with clean pads.
3. Next, I use the "3M swirl mark remover" part num 06064 (this stuff is formulated for black cars and it's a swirl rmover and wax I think) Apply with different pad on buffer , preferably a foam that fits on you buffer
4. I use wizards shine master polish with a soft foam pad on the buffer.
take note of the 3m bottles. These 3m products are the best.
Last edited by CakeDaddy; Jul 25, 2008 at 05:09 PM.
Thread Starter
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2003 W211
in part due to greg's advice, i decided to stick with the mezerna line... i'll try out power gloss compound and i will be applying it with 4" yellow pads (LC CCS)... as far as a sealant, i was leaning towards zaino's seal clear but upon reading lukewarm reviews, i decided to go with either UPP or klasse's sealant glaze... i'll post pictures when the detail is completed..
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From: Seattle, WA
'03 CLK 55
Dude, one thing I can tell you is that
Hiding swirl is not the best solution.
Zino is product that has filler agent.. it might looks good or perfect after you use it, but it will come back...
Hiding swirl is not the best solution.
Zino is product that has filler agent.. it might looks good or perfect after you use it, but it will come back...
Thread Starter
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2003 W211
i ask because i dont think you understand my statements... i said that i will be doing the paint correction with mezerna power gloss compound, followed by IP, finished FPII... do you recommend anything stronger than that??? if so, be specific... and whatever sealant i use after that will not 'fill' or 'hide' anything if it already has been corrected...
Last edited by dreamcatchr23; Jul 28, 2008 at 04:55 AM.
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From: NY
The polishes you listed will help permanently correct the clear coat so it's optically clear again. Some imperfections may still remain in the paint, but it should be minimal. A product like a glaze is only designed to help fill in imperfections and make the surface look good. It does not truly bond to the paint or provide any substantial protection. A sealant and wax are not designed to fill in imperfections but any product you apply to the surface will fill any remaining imperfections to some extent.
Greg @ Detailed Image
Greg @ Detailed Image
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 73
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2003 W211
The polishes you listed will help permanently correct the clear coat so it's optically clear again. Some imperfections may still remain in the paint, but it should be minimal. A product like a glaze is only designed to help fill in imperfections and make the surface look good. It does not truly bond to the paint or provide any substantial protection. A sealant and wax are not designed to fill in imperfections but any product you apply to the surface will fill any remaining imperfections to some extent.
Greg @ Detailed Image
Greg @ Detailed Image
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2008 F-250, 2007 GL450
Actually even the Zaino products that are supposed to have fillers and hide swirls don’t do that very well. I’ve tried. What they are good at is showing off exactly what your paint looks like - swirls and all.
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2008 F-250, 2007 GL450
You have the right idea. Keep it up.
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From: Rockville, MD
I use the Menzerna line for my cars
I did get some specific advice from a fellow enthusiast. He tried many different products including the Menzerna twins, 3M swirl mark remover along with a white or (a more agressive) orange (or yellow) pad.
The key was learning how to work the material into the surface until the material started to "breakdown", then release the pressure on the buffer and allow the buffer to absorb the material into the pad. Then go over the area with the pad. It is all about experimentation and method. Do not try to rush or you could be wasting your time.
As for doing this every so often, it has to happen, no matter how well you do the polish and wax and remove the swirl marks, you'll have to repeat the process at least annually, some do it every 6 months.
I have a great deal of respect for anyone who even attempts to do some of these things to improve the appearance of their vehicle.
The key was learning how to work the material into the surface until the material started to "breakdown", then release the pressure on the buffer and allow the buffer to absorb the material into the pad. Then go over the area with the pad. It is all about experimentation and method. Do not try to rush or you could be wasting your time.
As for doing this every so often, it has to happen, no matter how well you do the polish and wax and remove the swirl marks, you'll have to repeat the process at least annually, some do it every 6 months.
I have a great deal of respect for anyone who even attempts to do some of these things to improve the appearance of their vehicle.
