cdiken

Just amazing what a simple software upgrade can do.

My CDI is getting 3-4 MPG more, around town, and I'm not exactly trying to go easy on it with my new mod.

That's the desert. The main course is TORQUE!

The motor is extremely eager. Stepping off a light at 1/4 throttle it now feels like a Jetliner when initial thrust is applied. You can feel the driveline tense up as power in advanced, and the car yanked into motion.

I don't have baseline or actual numbers on acceleration, but definitely a different animal. Breaks traction, without trying, needs a limited slip differential.

The most enjoyable aspect is accelerating on uphill runs, the motor is just so eager it feels like it should have more work to do than just drag a little 4,000 lb car around. It wants to truck!

jimbo1mcm

Would you mind sharing how much it cost, and where it was done? thanks. Are you sure of the mileage figures?

prometheus

Did they provide you with a engine and/or wheel dyno sheet of how well it performs? How is the extra power obtained, e.g. increased timing/rail pressure, injection duration?

KosherBenz

here is some info I found..

http://www.carlsson.de/en/tuning/e-k...motor/cd32.php


http://www.carnews.nu/car-news.php?n...article&sid=75

cdiken

Jimbo: Cost, about $1600, bought directly from Carlsson North America. Link there site from the .de site, you can click on www.carlsson.de and follow to the North America site.

I installed it myself in less than 1 hour, it slides into a special tray near the ECU, and truly is plug-and-play. It could be removed just as quick.

If you PM me I will forward the North America director's contact info to you, he is very knowlegeable. You can get it from other outfits, like Carlson Products USA in Texas, but I wouldn't advise it, they don't return calls or email even with a potential puchase dangled in front of them.

I was assured that rail pressure is not the means of power gain, which is exactly why I did not go with one of the cheaper options that solders a chip into your ECU. The added power is only available with the motor at full operating temperature.

There are dyno charts supplied with my literature, they indicate torque is peak at 2200 RPM approx, and HP peaks just over 4000 or so. The chart shows a huge torque gain at 2200, and then much meatier torque all the way though 4000. HP is a straight line up to 4200 whereas stock starts to go limp at 3500.

Cannot be sure of mileage without a longer test period, will check it over time and keep you posted. The dash cluster is telling me 28-30 MPG for most around-town runs, whereas I was looking at typically 24-26 MPG around town previously.

mbman002

Is it the comfort or the sport-module ?

cdiken

If that's your question.

ECO:
Carlsson claims 10% better fuel economy, same HP as stock. Bottom-end torque is 570 N/m @2,000, a good improvement over the stock 500 N/m.

POWER:
Claims 580 N/m and 240 HP. Claims fuel economy improves in lower rev range. This is the unit in my car. Fuel economy is notably better, based on my first impressions.

mbman002

Yep, that was my question. I forgot the correct names

FlintCDI

cdiken,

What made you decide to go with the Carlsson over the other main manufactures or were you dead set on Carlsson?


http://www.brabus-online.de/prog14e.htm
http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/tuningproducts/ecu

cdiken

The three tuners I considered were Brabus, Carlsson, or Renntech based on reputation and references including MBWORLD posts....thank you MBWORLD!

Cheap $350-$450 solder chipping was out of the question. No open-heart surgery on my ECU under warranty or not. Plus, most of the cheapo units cheat and boost fuel pressure excessively in the common rail, no thanks at 23,000 PSI stock, you could almost make diamonds by putting coal in there.

Renntech was out as I didn't want my ECU remapped or in transit in the mail. Since dealers sometimes have to reflash an ECU for various reasons, I didn't want to set myself up for that potential hassle in the future. Not to mention if the motor goes BOOM I don't want to be told it was my fault for altering the ECU.

Brabus, while apparently posts a few HP more, was out because of price. Close to $4,000, that's getting extreme to spend on an E320.

So Carlsson it is. Good service and reputation. Plug and play, not too expensive at $1600.

In my haste I didn't realize Kleeman had a CDI upgrade, just clicked on Flint's link...Holy Schitt, Kleeman boasts 670 N/m or nearly 500 lb/ft of torque. I wonder if common-rail fuel pressure is up? That is a mountain of torque! More than the E400 CDI twin-turbo V8 stock or with Kleeman tuning. The I6 engine apparently has more potential, strength, and durability than the new V6, as Kleeman only boosts that engine to 250 HP and 600 N/m gains for that engine. Still no slouch, but not the 265 HP and 670 N/m for the I6.

These numbers make me tend to think Diesel, in general, has huge potential. If just software can post big gains, imagine as materials and technology in general improve, diesels may become the fuel of choice to build serious power in automotive engines. It already is (and has been for 50 years) in trucking, rail, equipment, etc.

I predict the real challenge to diesel performance will be constructing a driveline that can handle extreme torque without adding substantial weight to a car. The basic Diesel characteristic of making big power by huge torque (vs. high RPM's) is a limitation, esp if we are ever to see a 200+ mph diesel, the torque would have to be monumental to make that kind of power without high rpm's.

Lets see...an AMG 8 liter V-12 tri-turbo 60 valve (5 per cylinder) intercooled, propane injected diesel G series truck. 2200 HP and 4,000 lb/ft of torque. 0-300 MPH in under 5 seconds and 25 MPG!!! Dual 6" diameter exhausts, sticking straight through the hood.

vraa

You guys could email info@euroteckmotorsports.com for the Carlsson chip. He's probably be able to get the chip for cheaper than 1600$

themerc

cdiken, Does the Carlsson unit have two plugs for each injector port; one to plug into the OE connector and take the signal from the stock ECU, and the other plug into the injector port in place of the OE connector? That's what the Kleeman KD-Box does. It intercepts the signal to the fuel rail from the stock ECU, and sends a different signal after calculation.

The other question I have is about particulate smoke out the tailpipe. Are you seeing visible smoke in your rear view mirror when the engine is under load? My experience with the KD-Box was noticeably more power, with the biggest torque difference at 2,200 RPM. However, I also saw quite a bit of visible smoke out the tailpipe. Without the KD-Box; no smoke.

Thanks.

cdiken

No visible smoke at any throttle position. Although your smoke situation, while not becoming of a 2006 Mercedes, actually sounds kinda cool....twin entrails of black smoke, I would love to see it! Anyone who knows anything about a modern diesel and sees that smoke knows not to choose you at the stoplight pole position lest they be clowned! Or on the open road, you'll clown 'em there too!

The electrical connections are all at the ECU location next to the fuse panel. (Under a cover, against firewall, driver's side). Carlssson provides a rather intricate looking insert or "sandwich adaptor" that goes between the ECU and its 2 connectors. Everything is of OEM quality. The "sandwich" insert has jumper wires that go to the Carlsson box, which rides next to the ECU in a special basket they provide.

BTW does that 670 N/m sound right to you? The car must just absolutely stick you in the seat.

prometheus

Well, let me introduce you to an organization I have been with since its inception, the Diesel Hot Rod Association. We have been racing diesels since late 1999, and decided to start an official organization to sanction our own races.

Anyway, diesel engines have HUGE potential. I know some folks in negotiations with Mercedes to stuff an ~800hp MB diesel into something like the SLK/CLK strictly for drag racing. We have our Dodge trucks (diesels) running in the 10s in the quarter. Mine is running low 13s at 7900 pounds with me in it and is still a daily driver. I would love to see a fleet of 11 second Mercedes diesels come and clean house.

So, at risk of hijacking the thread completely (sorry! ) the potential and interest in high performance diesels is certainly there.


On edit: Trails of smoke from one of my past trucks and one from a dear friend's truck.

FlintCDI

mmmmm...uncooked #2! I love it.

FlintCDI

Here is a pretty cool video of some slightly modded MB's

http://media.putfile.com/dslboost05

themerc

We did several dyno runs at Kleemann. Their dyno calibrates so that results represent sea level and at-the-crank. The stock peaks were 218hp at 3,234 RPM and 370 lb/ft at 2,847 RPM. With the KD-Box, the peaks were 232hp at 3,570 RPM and 425 lb/ft (575 Nm) at 2,258 RPM. More significantly, the 425 lb/ft at 2,250 RPM was a good 100 lb/ft. higher than stock. This performance made the car feel like it weighed next to nothing. However, the dyno results were nowhere near the advertised peaks of 265hp and 493 lb/ft.

The Carlsson components appear to be a more elegant hardware setup than the KD-Box. And, about $500 more as well. And, you appear to be getting similar performance, and mpg improvements, as I did; but without the particulate smoke. There must be some differences in how the two units are increasing torque and hp.

I watched the tailpipe area behind my car during all the dyno runs. With stock setup - no visible smoke. With the KD-Box, plenty of smoke. I loved the power, but did not like the smoke. The engine ran perfectly, and no check-engine lights. I've since sold the car, but still have the box. I'll probably try to sell the KD-Box.

prometheus

Never heard of an wheel (chassis) dyno that compensates for parasitic driveline loss. What percentage loss did it use to calculate crank hp? Hope I read that right...

On edit: What shape was the torque curve? i.e. relatively flat between xxxx and xxxx rpm

themerc

See attached dyno from Kleemann. I don't know how it compensates for altitude and driveline loss. Regardless, it at least is a like for like comparison between what it observed for stock vs the KD-Box. You'll see that, at the higher RPM range, there appears to be a bit less HP and Torque with the box vs stock. I can tell you that, if I didn't have the dyno report, I'd never have known. What I felt was noticably more power and quicker throttle response.

Sauerkraut

The difference is that Carlsson is not increasing the boost but they manipulate injection timing, a very elegant and gentle method to increase power but it needs more brainwork, therefore the higher price compared to Kleemann. But higher safety for the engine and common rail pump should be worth spending some extra $, right?.

themerc

The Kleemann folks told me that the KD-Box does not increase boost - fuel rail or turbo; it just changes the fuel mappings and injection timing.

It appears to me that both the CD32 and KD-Box take the signal from the stock ECU and change AFRs and injection timing from there. This; vs a software change on the ECU chip itself, as the Renntech program.

KX4DX

Does anybody have a link to track times(0-60 & 1/4 mile) on the E320 CDI with the Carlsson CD32???
Thanks!

KosherBenz

I am thinking about going with the Kleemann

gaiex

Good to see you guys in US liking so much the CDI's
In Europe we all know what diesel engines are and how easy is to get some more Hp and torque, thats why 67% of the cars sold in Europe are diesel

Hope to see more and more CDI's in US

Audi did show what a diesel engine could do in the new Audi R8

harkgar

[QUOTE=cdiken;1393479]Just amazing what a simple software upgrade can do.

My CDI is getting 3-4 MPG more, around town, and I'm not exactly trying to go easy on it with my new mod.

That's the desert. The main course is TORQUE!

The motor is extremely eager. Stepping off a light at 1/4 throttle it now feels like a Jetliner when initial thrust is applied. You can feel the driveline tense up as power in advanced, and the car yanked into motion.

I don't have baseline or actual numbers on acceleration, but definitely a different animal. Breaks traction, without trying, needs a limited slip differential.
__________________________________________________ ____
Dear Ken,

Where did you get your Carlsson box? How much and any installation charge? Unfortunately there is only Kleemann in Toronto. Thanks.