240dguy

My First Post is seeking any type of guidance and info on the 320CDI. Test drove the car and love it. I understand from reading this forum that they will be changing the engine in 07 to a V-6 diesel. I am usually not one to be the first guy with new technology and tend to stick with proven technology and would like to consider the current in line 6 engine. Which brings me to my post: Can anyone share any info on the history of the current in line 6 cylinder engine? I know it has been in the US for a couple of years, how about Europe or rest of the world? Has the engine been used on commerical applications? Is it robust? Are the problems with the new E class cars (seems mostly electronic) affect the 320CDI?

I currently have a 240d that I love. The W123 body style is timeless and it is in great shape, just slooooow!! I get my comments on that car then my 2004 Porsche!

Thanks in advance for your time and comments.

Bill

E320Star

Trust me, stay away from any MB. too expensive for nothing. Buy a 07 camry or Avalon, they will cost a lot cheaper to maintain and longer w/o many defects and very quieter riding cars

oilbelcher

I am waiting for the new 2007 v6 diesel, which allows the 7 speed trans to be used. The current inline 6 has to use the 5 speed trans. The new engine is lighter, but the 7 speed I think is slightly heavier. Hoping the new combo is lighter, and may offer better handling and fuel economy. the 7 speed should help with economy and smoothness. Hey, what did you think of the handling, ride, and sportiness of the cdi during your test drive? Did it feel quite stable, like you could push it hard if you wanted, i.e. go through on-ramps quite quickly without too much body-roll?

There is quite a bit of information on the new aluminum v6 cdi on this site and the web. You can do some searching.

oilbelcher

My ideal car would be the new cdi engine, with 7 speed, and 17" tires to offer a little more sporty ride.

240dguy

There was less body roll then I expected for a sedan. I drove it on a fairly twisty road and spirited. The powerband was very practical. Power everywhere. There was a fair amount of road feel. I have recently driven other cars to compare to it. I liked the BMW we drove, on the low price end the top of the line Honda Accord was big disappointment. The steering felt like a Buick.

I do like this Mercedes. There is a lot of info on the new V-6 diesel, but I am not getting much on the current in-line 6.

IllCDI

The old I6 cylinder motor has been used in the E-class since 2000. There are numerous problems with the inline 6 cylinder motor, I have experienced a few of them. There are fuel leaks, oil leaks, surging problems, among others. There are a myriad of problems with the W211 chassis, Sensotronic Brake Problems etc. I have a w123 300D and would have to say, it is the most reliable car I have ever owned. I would stay away from these w211 cars, but if you have to have it, make sure to buy the long warranty and that you will be comfortable using your 240d a lot, as back up transportation. I am not sure how long you intend on keeping this CDI, but it will not last 20+ years there are too many things that can and will go wrong, everything on this car is electronic, the throttle, brakes etc. If you are looking for a keeper get a W123 Turbo Diesel, I recently got a new motor for my 300D and its fast, or a W124 with the 603, in my opinion this was the last well designed Mercedes diesel motor, I have a w210 E300 with the 606 and a lot of these same problems are present on that motor as well.


Is your 240D stick or auto?

240dguy

Thanks for your input. your feedback is exactly what I have been looking for, albeit not what I wanted to hear.

I wish my 240D was a stick. It is an auto and is the slowest car I have ever owned. You learn to drive to make up for its lack of power. I really love the car. I bought it from the original owner who cared for the car fanatically. I have every receipt since new.

I suppose I was hoping for a modern vesion equilivant of the W123.

Thanks again for your feedback.

Bill

cdiken

Clunking etc.

I don't think you need 7 speeds with the diesel. The torque is very elastic. I operate mine most of the time as a 4-speed (C-Mode).


Regarding commercial, the 5-cylinder 270 motor in the Sprinter vans is of the same lineage, although not the same engine per-se. The 320 I6 is too long to fit in the Sprinter van. I suspect the I6 would be offered in the Sprinter if length were not a problem.

IllCDI

I think the I5 612 has an iron head as well not sure though

wirsinduns

For my first post (I wish I found this site earlier!), I just wanted to comment on the E320 CDI's attributes and negatives. I got my CDI in March of 2005, and have a little over 22,000 miles on it. It's a great car in these respects: it has a driving aspect, great power, and is incredibly secure-feeling. It's negatives include minor, or depending on how you view it, major electronic issues, adjusting for the turbo power band, and the potential for problems.

In the year I've had the car, I have had only two mechanical issues: the first was that the alignment was off when I first purchased it -- the dealer fixed it; and around 4,000 miles, the SRS light problem that has been floating around in the forums came on. The dealer fixed it under warranty -- apparently, one of the sensors or cables under the passenger seat decided to go bad, and the SRS light came on. When you drive this car (as compared to my '87 gasser 300e), two things come to mind: the road feel that you (240dguy) mentioned is much more apparent, and you must account for turbolag. I find that it is actually useful to manually shift the car to keep it in its powerband of 1.8k - 3.5 k. On the highway, the car has a great feel, although the diesel whine when cruising at 80 is somewhat apparent (the engine turns at or about 2.2k). The car pulls great until up to 90, and then the horsepower or the engine gearing appears to be not as great. I expect that there won't be any significant problems: by now, they have ironed out most of the electronic bugs, and the I6 engine appears to be one of those incredibly well-engineered and over-built engines that will last at least 250,000 miles.

I drive about 600 miles each week, which works out to be about a fill-up a week. I'm not a tepid driver; i've averaged 29.9 mpg so far, and on a daily commute, will get about 32-33 mpg in Washington D.C. traffic and highway travel. I personally would have wanted to wait for a dream diesel - wagon with 4matic, but that might be awhile. I had the iPod kit put in at its first maintenance interval; it works great.

I suggest that you take the CDI out for a couple of long test-drives -- forget about the electronic side of the car, and just see if the way the car handles appeals to you. It's certainly a big difference (take it however you will) from the 80's Benzes. It embodies 20 years of auto evolution, and that can either be a pro or con depending on your fanaticism for 80's cars. Either way, I recommend that you go with the CDI -- it's a marvelous piece of modern Mercedes engineering.

mon-004o

I have personally tested the new V6 with teh 7 speed tranny - While I would have to say that I really enjoyed the engine/tranny as a combo, I would have some reservations about being one of the first ones to own it if I still lived in the states. My opinion is it may take MBUSA service departments a littel time to get up to speed on how to service that specific combo on that specific car.

As for economy of the V6, granted I only had the car for 3 days (and about 300km) I was impressed with how quiet it was, and how it pulled like a train - I was even more impressed with the economy. The car only had 9000km on it, and even with all the heavy footing I was doing the computer showed 8l/100 km - not too bad.

As for speeds above 90mph, I have some video that I took driving on the autobahn, I wouldnt say that there are any problems with power

http://media.putfile.com/06-E320-0-140km_hr-13-seconds

http://media.putfile.com/06-E320-40-140km_hr

http://media.putfile.com/06-E320-Cru...ntrol-200km_hr

http://media.putfile.com/06-E320-vid...engine-running

http://media.putfile.com/06-E320-Cru...ol-160-2400rpm

If there was one thing that I didnt like about the engine (V6) was that it tended to have some torque twist when you would press the pedel, I'm not use to this anymore, but the "twist" is something that comes with having a V6 and not an I6.

Either way, V6 or I6 they are great cars - good luck with your decision.

IllCDI

250,000 miles? overbuilt? I would love to know what specific attributes of this motor would lead you to believe this? I would say the 617.952 is overbuilt with its brass throttle linkage, and injector lines, but a 648? I have never heard of anyone describing the 648 as being overbuilt....

JRGD4L

Wow ILLCDI ! That post is pretty negative. I would not assume just because of the 2003 W211's gasser's electronic issues that the 05's are the same. There have been many updates and that is why I felt comfortable buying my 05 E320 CDI. I have 50,000 miles and all is well. Only issues I have had were the "diesel smell" in the garage (bad fuel hose connection)and I had the updated front suspension bushings as there was a very slight vibration in the wheel that could not be exorcised. I have yet to read a post where someone with an 05 CDI experienced all or even most of the things you stated. Taken as a whole someone would determine from your post that these cars have too many issues to bare and that is clearly not the case. I would say most owners on this forum are very satisfied with their late model CDI's as well as the W210 owners. Are these cars perfect ? No, but I would recommend the inline 6 CDI to anyone because of all it's great attributes.

240dguy

This is the type of feedback I was hoping to see more of. Of course I was expecting the car would be a significant improvement over the 80's car due to the modernization of the car while retaining some of the 80's robustness. I know time will tell.

Anyone know how long this engine has been around in Europe?

Thanks again to all those that have responded for your time and your opinions.

Bill

IllCDI

Don't get me wrong when the CDI is operating properly its a great car, the engine pulls very strong and the torque is overwhelming. Read this thread which I posted some time ago:

https://mbworld.org/forums/diesel-forum/130007-e320-cdi-starting-problems-had-towed.html

I have had problems with the car not starting, due to air in the lines, and fuel leaks. There was a person on here earlier who had E320 CDI that had surging problems that even the dealer could not fix, they ended up giving him a new car. Another person had persistent oil leaks after 500 miles. Another point to consider is that many of the CDI parts are not stocked in the US and it takes a very long time for these parts to be delivered from Germany.. It can be from 1 week to a couple months.

Reason why I bought this car? I'm a fool in love with Mercedes diesels, and even if they make a crappy diesel car I keep hoping that it would be a "modern w123" as 240dguy alluded to. I have my eye on this new V6 642 and even though it probably doesnt make much sense in terms of longevity to have an all aluminum V6, the reviews have been very good regarding this motor and its longevity. Maybe with this new motor and the lack of sensotronic this will be the car we are all hoping for. One thing is for sure this W211 is not.

There are still electronic gremlins with the w211, and dealerships I have dealt with have been less than helpful. There is a reason why SBC is going away, (if they had fixed all the problems then I am sure it would still be present in the W221 S550). There is a reason why JD Power rates Mercedes #27 in quality, they have slipped dramatically from the #1 spot in 1990. In 2004 the E-class was rated the least reliable car sold in America.


The 648 (current diesel motor) has been around since 2000 in Europe

mon-004o

I think we all understand your concerns, and to some point they are well founded, but I would suggest that if your going to compare JD Power results from 1990 (16 years) that you also consider all the advances that have been made, not only by MB but every other auto company, and then weight the results. Personally, I'll take MB.

IllCDI

Are you saying that Mercedes makes the most technologically advanced cars, surpassing BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, Audi etc? and what they are offering is significantly better.from a technological standpoint than other luxury marques? Other car companies, such as Lexus, have more technology than Mercedes and it is more reliable and more useful. The GS for example has more technology in it, than the E-class and it is reliable. I will eat my words if Lexus has a huge recall on their Brake By Wire system. If Lexus is able to have cars that are better equipped, with the same or more technology than Mercedes (withjout hampering quality), why is Mercedes unable to do it?


Don't confuse rushing technology to the market as innovation, its merely using the buying public as test beds to see what works and what doesnt, and recently that has proven disastorous for Mercedes.

saffrontiger

My advice, even after some of the issues I've had with diesel leaks ( seems to be isolated of course just to a few people such as me), I would absolutely buy this car again without even thinking twice.

I don't think ILLCDI is capable of giving an appropriate response as he seemed to be highly pissed off and emotional with his MB experience. It's unfortunate he had problems with his CDI, but I can assure you it's not a wide spread problem.

After 28K, I average 27-36 mpg city/hwy and couldn't be any happier with the torque/power bandwidth. Great highway cruiser and it's the only safe vehicle i would put my family in. Bottom line... I can't think of another car I would want to drive regardles of the past issues I've had.

Good luck with your decision.

IllCDI

I have said it before its a great car when things are operating properly, I have had huge problems with the dealers in my area, and the car itself. Just because I have not had a positive experience with this car doesnt mean its not an "appropriate response." Go to other forums and you will see that, what I am saying is not isolated. You will see that there were some lemon buy backs of these cars, SRS, SBC, Steering , Panoramic Roof, Surging and fuel leak problems. If you wanted a gravy picture then I am sorry I cant give one based on my experience with this car and dealerships.

mon-004o

I'm sorry to hear that, but unless you plan on moving to a different area, I would suggestthat you dont by a MB CDI, it sounds to me as if your mind is already made up against MB. I personally dont see why you asked your original question, it seems to me as if you already knew the answer you were looking for.

Good luck

DslBnz

Bless you, my friend for providing those videos. Nobody has posted ANYTHING on the CDI's in regards to digital video. That is the V6, right? The gears seem too close to be the I6 with the 5-speed.

Oh, btw. Why is it that the last two links are dead? Perhaps the "..." in the hyperlink is messing up the addressing scheme.

These two work now:

http://media.putfile.com/06-E320-Cru...ntrol-200km_hr


http://media.putfile.com/06-E320-Cru...ol-160-2400rpm

And the last one does, too.

http://media.putfile.com/06-E320-idle

mon-004o

Yes that is the V6 with the 7speed - it was a nice car.

I will have to fix those two dead links

CE750

Sorry I'm late here.. but I have but one thing to say.... GET THE E320CDI BEFORE THE ALUMINUM BLOCK ENGINE! Diesel is a high compression engine, and you need an iron block for that if you plan to keep your engine longer than 100,000 miles.

The E320CDI is the best car I've ever owned... period.

jimbo1mcm

I only own two of them, plus my original 240d. I concur with Sam. Find an 05 or 06, loaded and buy one, or two.

rjm

Sam...do you have any facts or documentation to support that claim?
Don't you think MB engineers have taken longevity and reliability into their equation in designing the new V6 Diesel? They can't afford to put out another disaster that will be beset with quality problems on the market!