ULSD vs LSD fuel in 320CDI?
12-12-2006, 08:55 PM
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ULSD vs LSD fuel in 320CDI?
Hi,
I'm strongly considering a GL320CDI (my 1st MB) but I have read that MB requires Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) in MY2007 CDI engines. Many, many stations are still selling Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD). Does anyone have further info? Will using LSD on occasion ruin the engine or void the warranty? Also, any MB updates on the use of B20 biodiesel?
Thanks!
I'm strongly considering a GL320CDI (my 1st MB) but I have read that MB requires Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) in MY2007 CDI engines. Many, many stations are still selling Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD). Does anyone have further info? Will using LSD on occasion ruin the engine or void the warranty? Also, any MB updates on the use of B20 biodiesel?
Thanks!
12-12-2006, 08:59 PM
#2
Are you sure that ULSD is required in the V6 CDI vehicles (ML-, GL-, and R-class for 2007)? As I understand it, only the Bluetecs (E-class, currently) have the complex filters that will be clogged with anything other than ULSD.
12-12-2006, 10:42 PM
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1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
ALL 2007 and newer engines need ULSD. It's not just filters, the injectors in the 07 CDI's can be harmed by even 1 tank of LSD.
12-12-2006, 10:43 PM
#4
I didn't think the injectors were any different between the CDIs and Bluetecs...
Assuming they are the same, perhaps ULSD is required for the vehicles to pass emissions, therefore they are not to be run with anything else.
Assuming they are the same, perhaps ULSD is required for the vehicles to pass emissions, therefore they are not to be run with anything else.
12-12-2006, 10:48 PM
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1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
The CDI and Bluetec engines are exactly the same. The only thing different between the two is the exhaust filters on the Bluetec.
They use very precise Piezo injectors that can be damaged by sulfur.
EDIT: From http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...lowsulfur.html
Ultra Low-Sulfur Diesel Regulations Take Effect in US
2 June 2006
Ulsdlabel
Pump label for ULSD.
Yesterday (1 June) marked the beginning of the phased-in implementation of EPA’s Clean Air Highway Diesel final rule that requires a 97% reduction in the sulfur content of highway diesel fuel from its current level of 500 parts per million (ppm) to 15 ppm. EPA estimates that this new diesel fuel will cost an additional 4 to 5 cents per gallon to produce and to distribute.
This Ultra Low-Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) will be available at retail stations beginning this summer and enables the use of modern pollution-control technology to meet the new EPA Tier 2 emissions specifications that will be fully in force at the end of this year.
Owners of 2007 and later model year diesel-powered highway vehicles must refuel only with ULSD fuel. Owners of 2006 and earlier model year diesel-powered highway engines and vehicles may use ULSD or Low Sulfur Diesel fuel during the transition period. Only ULSD fuel will be available for highway use starting on 1 December 2010 in states covered by EPA emissions regulations.
California regulations call for a more aggressive implementation of ULSD, with all highway diesel required to be ULSD by September 2006.
Improperly fueling a 2007 and later model year vehicle with Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD) not only can permanently damage the emissions system and void the warranty, but us illegal and punishable with civil penalties.
Only ultra low-sulfur kerosene (No. 1 diesel with no more than 15 ppm sulfur) may be blended with ULSD fuel for cold weather performance. Blend rates will remain the same as with Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.
Operators of mode year 2007 diesel vehicles may see some degradation in fuel economy—the process of lowering the sulfur content also slightly lowers the energy content of the fuel, and the new emissions control devices designed to meet the 2007 and beyond standards can apply their own fuel consumption penalty.
The current ULSD rule had its origin in 2000, and was finalized in January 2001. Beginning with the 2007 model year, pollution from heavy-duty highway vehicles will be reduced by more than 90%.
Engine manufacturers have the flexibility to meet the new standards through a phase-in approach between 2007 and 2010. The program also includes various flexible approaches, including additional time for some refiners and special provisions for small refiners.
They use very precise Piezo injectors that can be damaged by sulfur.
EDIT: From http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...lowsulfur.html
Ultra Low-Sulfur Diesel Regulations Take Effect in US
2 June 2006
Ulsdlabel
Pump label for ULSD.
Yesterday (1 June) marked the beginning of the phased-in implementation of EPA’s Clean Air Highway Diesel final rule that requires a 97% reduction in the sulfur content of highway diesel fuel from its current level of 500 parts per million (ppm) to 15 ppm. EPA estimates that this new diesel fuel will cost an additional 4 to 5 cents per gallon to produce and to distribute.
This Ultra Low-Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) will be available at retail stations beginning this summer and enables the use of modern pollution-control technology to meet the new EPA Tier 2 emissions specifications that will be fully in force at the end of this year.
Owners of 2007 and later model year diesel-powered highway vehicles must refuel only with ULSD fuel. Owners of 2006 and earlier model year diesel-powered highway engines and vehicles may use ULSD or Low Sulfur Diesel fuel during the transition period. Only ULSD fuel will be available for highway use starting on 1 December 2010 in states covered by EPA emissions regulations.
California regulations call for a more aggressive implementation of ULSD, with all highway diesel required to be ULSD by September 2006.
Improperly fueling a 2007 and later model year vehicle with Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD) not only can permanently damage the emissions system and void the warranty, but us illegal and punishable with civil penalties.
Only ultra low-sulfur kerosene (No. 1 diesel with no more than 15 ppm sulfur) may be blended with ULSD fuel for cold weather performance. Blend rates will remain the same as with Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.
Operators of mode year 2007 diesel vehicles may see some degradation in fuel economy—the process of lowering the sulfur content also slightly lowers the energy content of the fuel, and the new emissions control devices designed to meet the 2007 and beyond standards can apply their own fuel consumption penalty.
The current ULSD rule had its origin in 2000, and was finalized in January 2001. Beginning with the 2007 model year, pollution from heavy-duty highway vehicles will be reduced by more than 90%.
Engine manufacturers have the flexibility to meet the new standards through a phase-in approach between 2007 and 2010. The program also includes various flexible approaches, including additional time for some refiners and special provisions for small refiners.
Last edited by 240D 3.0T; 12-12-2006 at 10:58 PM.
12-13-2006, 07:10 AM
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yuck!
One tank of LSD could damage the engine!! That's kinda scary. What if I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere and can only get LSD fuel? Looks like the smartest thing to do is wait awhile and hope ULSD will be more widespread.
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12-13-2006, 07:43 AM
#8
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Until I get a good feel for the availability, I'll probably carry a couple of 5 gallon jerries on any trips going further than a tank full.
12-13-2006, 11:57 AM
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E500
From the Diesel Technology Forum Newsletter....
Clean Diesel Fuel Intro – Sulfur levels Low; More Labels Needed
Early sampling results by EPA suggest that ULSD is well below the specification across the country. EPA recently reported on some of their preliminary sampling data of diesel fuel retailers nationwide. Their samples five weeks in a row, of 1000 retail locations around the country showed that:
-90 percent of all highway fuel sampled – is 18ppm or less.-
-First five weeks after October 15 about 40 percent of retail outlets pumps were labeled as ULSD – 40 percent as LSD (no more than 500 ppm sulfur), less than 20 percent had no label at all.
-Of those labeled ULSD (434 pumps) – the vast majority were < 18 ppm. Over 91.5 percent are less than 10.0 ppm sulfur or less; 86% are 8.0 ppm or less; 54% are 6.0 ppm or less; 16% are 4.0 ppm or less-Of about 400 pumps labeled LSD – sulfur levels are coming in at 17 ppm or less.
-85% of those pumps not labeled were actually LSD.
-EPA raised concerns that they have found that about 20 percent of stations have no labels at all. And, about 20 percent of pumps still labeled as LSD—however they are actually dispensing ULSD. EPA is sending advisory letters to the stations with unlabeled pumps, and will be following up with potential enforcement action.
Early sampling results by EPA suggest that ULSD is well below the specification across the country. EPA recently reported on some of their preliminary sampling data of diesel fuel retailers nationwide. Their samples five weeks in a row, of 1000 retail locations around the country showed that:
-90 percent of all highway fuel sampled – is 18ppm or less.-
-First five weeks after October 15 about 40 percent of retail outlets pumps were labeled as ULSD – 40 percent as LSD (no more than 500 ppm sulfur), less than 20 percent had no label at all.
-Of those labeled ULSD (434 pumps) – the vast majority were < 18 ppm. Over 91.5 percent are less than 10.0 ppm sulfur or less; 86% are 8.0 ppm or less; 54% are 6.0 ppm or less; 16% are 4.0 ppm or less-Of about 400 pumps labeled LSD – sulfur levels are coming in at 17 ppm or less.
-85% of those pumps not labeled were actually LSD.
-EPA raised concerns that they have found that about 20 percent of stations have no labels at all. And, about 20 percent of pumps still labeled as LSD—however they are actually dispensing ULSD. EPA is sending advisory letters to the stations with unlabeled pumps, and will be following up with potential enforcement action.
12-13-2006, 01:57 PM
#10
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ALL 2007 Diesel vehicles sold in USA must use ULSD.
It's a government requirement, not a Mercedes requirement.
Chances of NOT finding it are small.
You've heard the phrase "when you stop beating your head against a wall, your head will stop hurting?"
Stop worrying about ULSD.
It's a government requirement, not a Mercedes requirement.
Chances of NOT finding it are small.
You've heard the phrase "when you stop beating your head against a wall, your head will stop hurting?"
Stop worrying about ULSD.
12-13-2006, 07:11 PM
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12-13-2006, 07:37 PM
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2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
In other words, Oldtec is better than Bluetec
The CDI and Bluetec engines are exactly the same. The only thing different between the two is the exhaust filters on the Bluetec.
They use very precise Piezo injectors that can be damaged by sulfur.
EDIT: From http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...lowsulfur.html
Ultra Low-Sulfur Diesel Regulations Take Effect in US
2 June 2006
Ulsdlabel
Pump label for ULSD.
Yesterday (1 June) marked the beginning of the phased-in implementation of EPA’s Clean Air Highway Diesel final rule that requires a 97% reduction in the sulfur content of highway diesel fuel from its current level of 500 parts per million (ppm) to 15 ppm. EPA estimates that this new diesel fuel will cost an additional 4 to 5 cents per gallon to produce and to distribute.
This Ultra Low-Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) will be available at retail stations beginning this summer and enables the use of modern pollution-control technology to meet the new EPA Tier 2 emissions specifications that will be fully in force at the end of this year.
Owners of 2007 and later model year diesel-powered highway vehicles must refuel only with ULSD fuel. Owners of 2006 and earlier model year diesel-powered highway engines and vehicles may use ULSD or Low Sulfur Diesel fuel during the transition period. Only ULSD fuel will be available for highway use starting on 1 December 2010 in states covered by EPA emissions regulations.
California regulations call for a more aggressive implementation of ULSD, with all highway diesel required to be ULSD by September 2006.
Improperly fueling a 2007 and later model year vehicle with Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD) not only can permanently damage the emissions system and void the warranty, but us illegal and punishable with civil penalties.
Only ultra low-sulfur kerosene (No. 1 diesel with no more than 15 ppm sulfur) may be blended with ULSD fuel for cold weather performance. Blend rates will remain the same as with Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.
Operators of mode year 2007 diesel vehicles may see some degradation in fuel economy—the process of lowering the sulfur content also slightly lowers the energy content of the fuel, and the new emissions control devices designed to meet the 2007 and beyond standards can apply their own fuel consumption penalty.
The current ULSD rule had its origin in 2000, and was finalized in January 2001. Beginning with the 2007 model year, pollution from heavy-duty highway vehicles will be reduced by more than 90%.
Engine manufacturers have the flexibility to meet the new standards through a phase-in approach between 2007 and 2010. The program also includes various flexible approaches, including additional time for some refiners and special provisions for small refiners.
They use very precise Piezo injectors that can be damaged by sulfur.
EDIT: From http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006...lowsulfur.html
Ultra Low-Sulfur Diesel Regulations Take Effect in US
2 June 2006
Ulsdlabel
Pump label for ULSD.
Yesterday (1 June) marked the beginning of the phased-in implementation of EPA’s Clean Air Highway Diesel final rule that requires a 97% reduction in the sulfur content of highway diesel fuel from its current level of 500 parts per million (ppm) to 15 ppm. EPA estimates that this new diesel fuel will cost an additional 4 to 5 cents per gallon to produce and to distribute.
This Ultra Low-Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) will be available at retail stations beginning this summer and enables the use of modern pollution-control technology to meet the new EPA Tier 2 emissions specifications that will be fully in force at the end of this year.
Owners of 2007 and later model year diesel-powered highway vehicles must refuel only with ULSD fuel. Owners of 2006 and earlier model year diesel-powered highway engines and vehicles may use ULSD or Low Sulfur Diesel fuel during the transition period. Only ULSD fuel will be available for highway use starting on 1 December 2010 in states covered by EPA emissions regulations.
California regulations call for a more aggressive implementation of ULSD, with all highway diesel required to be ULSD by September 2006.
Improperly fueling a 2007 and later model year vehicle with Low Sulfur Diesel (LSD) not only can permanently damage the emissions system and void the warranty, but us illegal and punishable with civil penalties.
Only ultra low-sulfur kerosene (No. 1 diesel with no more than 15 ppm sulfur) may be blended with ULSD fuel for cold weather performance. Blend rates will remain the same as with Low Sulfur Diesel fuel.
Operators of mode year 2007 diesel vehicles may see some degradation in fuel economy—the process of lowering the sulfur content also slightly lowers the energy content of the fuel, and the new emissions control devices designed to meet the 2007 and beyond standards can apply their own fuel consumption penalty.
The current ULSD rule had its origin in 2000, and was finalized in January 2001. Beginning with the 2007 model year, pollution from heavy-duty highway vehicles will be reduced by more than 90%.
Engine manufacturers have the flexibility to meet the new standards through a phase-in approach between 2007 and 2010. The program also includes various flexible approaches, including additional time for some refiners and special provisions for small refiners.
12-13-2006, 07:41 PM
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2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
Why should you worry Kent?
ALL 2007 Diesel vehicles sold in USA must use ULSD.
It's a government requirement, not a Mercedes requirement.
Chances of NOT finding it are small.
You've heard the phrase "when you stop beating your head against a wall, your head will stop hurting?"
Stop worrying about ULSD.
It's a government requirement, not a Mercedes requirement.
Chances of NOT finding it are small.
You've heard the phrase "when you stop beating your head against a wall, your head will stop hurting?"
Stop worrying about ULSD.
You have the last of the great diesels that can burn anything. Enjoy while the tree-huggers weep. It surely feels good. You are like one of the last owners of the big block engines in 1971 or whenever the tree nuts and Jimmy Pee Pee Peanut Farmer Jimmie ****er banned leaded fuel and fun.
12-13-2006, 11:11 PM
#14
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Will go out of my way if needed (it's not) to run ULSD in it.
Sure glad I don't have to drive a car that runs as ****-poor as pre-pollution requirement cars used to.
These "incentives" have ALWAYS resulted in better cars.
The "good old days" never were.
The older we get, the better we were.
The drunker you get, the better we sound.
Sure glad I don't have to drive a car that runs as ****-poor as pre-pollution requirement cars used to.
These "incentives" have ALWAYS resulted in better cars.
The "good old days" never were.
The older we get, the better we were.
The drunker you get, the better we sound.
12-14-2006, 03:59 PM
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2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
Cannot see the black smoke from the trees
Will go out of my way if needed (it's not) to run ULSD in it.
Sure glad I don't have to drive a car that runs as ****-poor as pre-pollution requirement cars used to.
These "incentives" have ALWAYS resulted in better cars.
The "good old days" never were.
The older we get, the better we were.
The drunker you get, the better we sound.
Sure glad I don't have to drive a car that runs as ****-poor as pre-pollution requirement cars used to.
These "incentives" have ALWAYS resulted in better cars.
The "good old days" never were.
The older we get, the better we were.
The drunker you get, the better we sound.
We are only in this world for a few decades. The British burnt coal in their fire places until the early 1990s and the polar ice caps are still there. Stop worrying about the whales and trees and enjoy the internal combustion engine.
12-26-2006, 05:28 AM
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12-26-2006, 07:25 PM
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2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
particulate filter is working?
Any comments gentlemen?
12-30-2006, 07:09 PM
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2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
lets get rid off all that junk
Tuner,
you have disabled your EGR and other useless pieces on your diesel ride. How are you going to pass emission or is it only a visual thing in your area? In Toronto up to 2006 MY light diesel engines (not trucks) need the visual test only meaning if the tester cannot see black smoke you pass immediately. If he sees black smoke and it puffs for under 15 seconds CONTINUOUSLY you will also pass which means you will pass if you pay the guy.
Sometimes it pays to own older diesel engines.
you have disabled your EGR and other useless pieces on your diesel ride. How are you going to pass emission or is it only a visual thing in your area? In Toronto up to 2006 MY light diesel engines (not trucks) need the visual test only meaning if the tester cannot see black smoke you pass immediately. If he sees black smoke and it puffs for under 15 seconds CONTINUOUSLY you will also pass which means you will pass if you pay the guy.
Sometimes it pays to own older diesel engines.
