Newbie Question
06-29-2007, 12:06 PM
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Newbie Question
I recently decided to graduate from my '05 Honda Accord hybrid to a Mercedes diesel in order to run bio-diesel. I suspect the next step will be a WVO conversion, but I'm a baby-stepper at best. Needless to say, my price point appears to put me in the market for a 1995-99 MB 300TD w/ anywhere from 140K to 225K miles. Although I know that diesel engines are far more durable than gas, I’m still am a bit un-nerved by the high mileage. Notwithstanding the diesel engine, I assume the rest of the car contains the same components that show up in all MB cars (electric, computer, brakes, etc.) and will have suffered the beating of 140+ miles. Never having owned an MB before, any info people can share about what to look out for at the dealer’s when assessing a particular car would be great. Any anecdotal stories on how long people have run their MB's and what some common problems are would also be great.
THANKS!
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06-29-2007, 07:36 PM
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'95 and '96 E-class came with a nonturbo diesel.
'98 and '99 were available with same engine turbocharged.
No wagons were imported (which is what "TD" means in Mercedes nomenclature). All above models were called E300D.
Diesel engines are "far more durable" than gasoline engines only if designed to be. Nothing inherent to diesels makes them so, other than, perhaps, the fact they never run much over 4K rpm--gasoline engines can be run that way, too.
Use of any biodiesel other than B5 will void the warranty of any newer Mercedes diesel. For me, at least, so will it kill the resale value of any other.
'98 and '99 were available with same engine turbocharged.
No wagons were imported (which is what "TD" means in Mercedes nomenclature). All above models were called E300D.
Diesel engines are "far more durable" than gasoline engines only if designed to be. Nothing inherent to diesels makes them so, other than, perhaps, the fact they never run much over 4K rpm--gasoline engines can be run that way, too.
Use of any biodiesel other than B5 will void the warranty of any newer Mercedes diesel. For me, at least, so will it kill the resale value of any other.
07-01-2007, 02:22 PM
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2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
What is wrong with bio nuts?
'95 and '96 E-class came with a nonturbo diesel.
'98 and '99 were available with same engine turbocharged.
No wagons were imported (which is what "TD" means in Mercedes nomenclature). All above models were called E300D.
Diesel engines are "far more durable" than gasoline engines only if designed to be. Nothing inherent to diesels makes them so, other than, perhaps, the fact they never run much over 4K rpm--gasoline engines can be run that way, too.
Use of any biodiesel other than B5 will void the warranty of any newer Mercedes diesel. For me, at least, so will it kill the resale value of any other.
'98 and '99 were available with same engine turbocharged.
No wagons were imported (which is what "TD" means in Mercedes nomenclature). All above models were called E300D.
Diesel engines are "far more durable" than gasoline engines only if designed to be. Nothing inherent to diesels makes them so, other than, perhaps, the fact they never run much over 4K rpm--gasoline engines can be run that way, too.
Use of any biodiesel other than B5 will void the warranty of any newer Mercedes diesel. For me, at least, so will it kill the resale value of any other.
The risk may be small but MB says in its newer owner manuals not to exceed 5%. They said it. If the engine fails as a result it is bye bye Charlie.
The ozone people should leave the good diesels alone and buy Toyota and Honda hybrids instead. They deserve to drive battery cars.
07-02-2007, 02:41 PM
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lkchris...thanks for the model references. I will assume that given the high quality of Mercedes cars in general, that the engine, diesel or not, is durable. I will also assume that given the vast number of older Mercedes diesels I see on the road, that the engines were, indeed, "designed" to be more durable. Since I'm looking at models older, and with much more mileage, than even the very generous Mercedes warranty, I'm not real concerned about voiding anything.
harkgar...not sure you even answered my question, but thanks for grandstanding your environmental opinions by way of my posting.
harkgar...not sure you even answered my question, but thanks for grandstanding your environmental opinions by way of my posting.
07-02-2007, 06:01 PM
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AdamJ, great choice in coming over to a diesel, although I would strongly advise against a conversion. These cars do very well running on biodiesel, that is, properly refined biodiesel. No matter what conversion you do, running SVO or WVO will cause damage to your engine in the long run, and also result in much poorer fuel economy and performance. I would be happy to explain the reasons why in more detail if you would like. Besides that, these are fantastic cars that will not disappoint in any way. As an aside, I consider myself an environmentalist, I've been driving diesels for quite a while, put 300k on several of them before selling (all of my cars are still on the road with new owners, and probably 500k miles). The best thing you can do it baby your car, it will treat you extremely well in return.
07-02-2007, 06:22 PM
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Many thanks for the reply Untertürkheim. It's the most useful one I've gotten so far (and I've posted on both MB and biodiesel sites). If you've got the time (and the inclination) I'd be curious to know why biodeisel alone is better than a WVO/SVO - biodiesel combo.
As an aside, I'm hopeful that the quality of biodiesel available in my area is good (i.e., properly refined). The station I'd be purchasing from provides all the fuel needs (both vehicular and machinery) of a local developer in the middle of constructing one of the largest mall developments in the country. Notwithstanding, I had planned on investing in a veggie oil conversion sometime down the line and would love any insight that may help me avoid making a counterproductive (and costly) mistake.
As an aside, I'm hopeful that the quality of biodiesel available in my area is good (i.e., properly refined). The station I'd be purchasing from provides all the fuel needs (both vehicular and machinery) of a local developer in the middle of constructing one of the largest mall developments in the country. Notwithstanding, I had planned on investing in a veggie oil conversion sometime down the line and would love any insight that may help me avoid making a counterproductive (and costly) mistake.
07-02-2007, 07:08 PM
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My absolute pleasure Adam
lkchris...thanks for the model references. I will assume that given the high quality of Mercedes cars in general, that the engine, diesel or not, is durable. I will also assume that given the vast number of older Mercedes diesels I see on the road, that the engines were, indeed, "designed" to be more durable. Since I'm looking at models older, and with much more mileage, than even the very generous Mercedes warranty, I'm not real concerned about voiding anything.
harkgar...not sure you even answered my question, but thanks for grandstanding your environmental opinions by way of my posting.
harkgar...not sure you even answered my question, but thanks for grandstanding your environmental opinions by way of my posting.
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07-15-2007, 07:13 PM
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CLS55 AMG
07-15-2007, 11:12 PM
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'84 300CD, '82 300SD, '74 TR6, '99 Land Rover Discovery
Diesels
I'm sure you want a newer diesel because it has cup holders and other copulent creature comforts, but here's another opinion: My wife and I have owned our 82 300SD and 84 300CD since new the SD has 260K+ the CD 211K+ they are both considered low mileage for their years - both less than 10K per year. We have owned 14 MB's over the last 40+ years and have put as much as 425K miles on one (a 79 300CD and it's still on the road with the new owner). We stopped buying new MB's when we realized that the best cars MB ever build were the 123 and 126 series cars - so we'll keep these two for the rest of their or our lives - I'm sure the cars will outlast us. I am not sure I could say that with a diesel built in the later years.
07-16-2007, 01:17 AM
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1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
Don't ruin a perfectly good classic car by butchering and abusing it with veggie oils. Just keep your hybrid.
Your hybrid is cleaner, faster, more efficient, and more reliable. You'll end up like most of the other sheep following the biofuel fad: Get the car to pinch a few pennies on fuel or "save the environment", and then whine about how expensive it is to maintain, gets lower MPG than your hybrid, the exhaust smells, it drips oil, it's slow, and how nasty and time consuming it is to make WVO. Then you'll get bored/fed-up with it and send what was once a perfectly good classic to the scrapyard.
Use the fuel these engines were designed to burn, DIESEL.
Your hybrid is cleaner, faster, more efficient, and more reliable. You'll end up like most of the other sheep following the biofuel fad: Get the car to pinch a few pennies on fuel or "save the environment", and then whine about how expensive it is to maintain, gets lower MPG than your hybrid, the exhaust smells, it drips oil, it's slow, and how nasty and time consuming it is to make WVO. Then you'll get bored/fed-up with it and send what was once a perfectly good classic to the scrapyard.
Use the fuel these engines were designed to burn, DIESEL.
Last edited by 240D 3.0T; 07-16-2007 at 01:29 AM.
07-16-2007, 11:58 AM
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CLS55 AMG
"Save the environment"
Cute how you put the phrase into quotes there, as if it's some sort of fantasy.
Well, here is reality. Today, in the DFW metro where I live, we are under a level orange air pollution alert. This means that it is unhealthy to breathe. Here is what SMU Medical, one of the better medical facilities in the US, has to say:
And if you check the websites of the other regional medical centers, you'll see exactly the same thing. You want to spin fantasies about "sheep"? This is reality. The fact is that the air gets so polluted in this area that it is unhealthy to stay outside for extended periods on these alert days. Last year by this time we had already had over twenty such days, and had well over that by the end of summer, the time at which children are outside the most. This year thanks to the unseasonable rain, we've been so far spared, but the rain left last week....and, like clockwork, today we get an air quality alert.
Well, here is reality. Today, in the DFW metro where I live, we are under a level orange air pollution alert. This means that it is unhealthy to breathe. Here is what SMU Medical, one of the better medical facilities in the US, has to say:
Hot summer days can lead to bad summer air.
In some cities, you may start noticing a new feature in daily weather reports at this time of year: the ozone rating. Like the pollen count, the ozone rating helps you know if you might have trouble breathing because of the air quality.
Ground-level ozone forms on hot, sunny days when chemicals from auto exhaust and chemical plants react with heat and sunlight. Doctors at UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas say high ozone levels can cause short-term breathing problems for some people.
Dr. David Khan, a UT Southwestern allergist, says high ozone levels can make a person with allergies or asthma more sensitive to the allergens that trigger asthma attacks. On high-ozone days, people with asthma should stay indoors as much as possible and monitor their symptoms. Keep asthma medication handy.
When there's an ozone alert, everyone needs to stay aware of the amount of time they spend outdoors. Look out for symptoms such as coughing; rapid, shallow breathing; or general discomfort in the chest. If you notice these symptoms, stay indoors until ozone levels drop, and avoid strenuous exercise.
Ozone levels tend to be worst during the hottest part of the day - especially during afternoon rush hour. On high-ozone days, you can do your part to help the environment by using public transportation and by not using combustion engines like cars or lawnmowers during the hot part of the afternoon.
In some cities, you may start noticing a new feature in daily weather reports at this time of year: the ozone rating. Like the pollen count, the ozone rating helps you know if you might have trouble breathing because of the air quality.
Ground-level ozone forms on hot, sunny days when chemicals from auto exhaust and chemical plants react with heat and sunlight. Doctors at UT Southwestern Medical Center at Dallas say high ozone levels can cause short-term breathing problems for some people.
Dr. David Khan, a UT Southwestern allergist, says high ozone levels can make a person with allergies or asthma more sensitive to the allergens that trigger asthma attacks. On high-ozone days, people with asthma should stay indoors as much as possible and monitor their symptoms. Keep asthma medication handy.
When there's an ozone alert, everyone needs to stay aware of the amount of time they spend outdoors. Look out for symptoms such as coughing; rapid, shallow breathing; or general discomfort in the chest. If you notice these symptoms, stay indoors until ozone levels drop, and avoid strenuous exercise.
Ozone levels tend to be worst during the hottest part of the day - especially during afternoon rush hour. On high-ozone days, you can do your part to help the environment by using public transportation and by not using combustion engines like cars or lawnmowers during the hot part of the afternoon.
07-16-2007, 11:03 PM
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1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
Cute how you put the phrase into quotes there, as if it's some sort of fantasy.
Well, here is reality. Today, in the DFW metro where I live, we are under a level orange air pollution alert. This means that it is unhealthy to breathe. Here is what SMU Medical, one of the better medical facilities in the US, has to say:
Well, here is reality. Today, in the DFW metro where I live, we are under a level orange air pollution alert. This means that it is unhealthy to breathe. Here is what SMU Medical, one of the better medical facilities in the US, has to say:
If you think driving a 25+ year old car with a butt load of miles, poor maintenance, pukes black smoke, has NOx emissions 20x the current diesel limit and meets 70's/80's loose emissions standards is "environmentally friendly", you are sadly mistaken. It has been said that 10% of the vehicles make 90% of the pollution. If you want a vehicle that is "clean", buy a new car that meets current or future emissions standards.
The biofuel movement is a fad. There are not enough resources to make biofuels an honestly viable petroleum alternative / replacement in the USA except for a few fringe enthusiasts.
07-17-2007, 12:36 AM
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Not fringy enthusiasts, just freaky ones
You just proved that there is nothing truly environmentally friendly. If they really are clean, smog alerts would be a thing of the past.
If you think driving a 25+ year old car with a butt load of miles, poor maintenance, pukes black smoke, has NOx emissions 20x the current diesel limit and meets 70's/80's loose emissions standards is "environmentally friendly", you are sadly mistaken. It has been said that 10% of the vehicles make 90% of the pollution. If you want a vehicle that is "clean", buy a new car that meets current or future emissions standards.
The biofuel movement is a fad. There are not enough resources to make biofuels an honestly viable petroleum alternative / replacement in the USA except for a few fringe enthusiasts.
If you think driving a 25+ year old car with a butt load of miles, poor maintenance, pukes black smoke, has NOx emissions 20x the current diesel limit and meets 70's/80's loose emissions standards is "environmentally friendly", you are sadly mistaken. It has been said that 10% of the vehicles make 90% of the pollution. If you want a vehicle that is "clean", buy a new car that meets current or future emissions standards.
The biofuel movement is a fad. There are not enough resources to make biofuels an honestly viable petroleum alternative / replacement in the USA except for a few fringe enthusiasts.
You are an honest diesel mechanic working hard to make a living, not some high and mighty nut (H & M) know-all medic type in Greys Anatomy.
Other H & M nuts are the Toyota *****-us hybrid driving, tree-hugging, Birkenstock wearing, anti-smoking, anti-alcohol, anti-anything enjoyable kill joy vegetarian Clintonite non-inhaling no-gooders. Still others are people that think it is cool to call themselves "metal-sexuals" or something.
They is nothing like a large beer and a thick medium rare juicy steak washed down with a large 5% beer following by a quick 100 mph blast down the highway in a large capacity V-8 diesel engine that blows black smoke.
07-17-2007, 12:40 AM
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wanna get an older diesel
You just proved that there is nothing truly environmentally friendly. If they really are clean, smog alerts would be a thing of the past.
If you think driving a 25+ year old car with a butt load of miles, poor maintenance, pukes black smoke, has NOx emissions 20x the current diesel limit and meets 70's/80's loose emissions standards is "environmentally friendly", you are sadly mistaken. It has been said that 10% of the vehicles make 90% of the pollution. If you want a vehicle that is "clean", buy a new car that meets current or future emissions standards.
The biofuel movement is a fad. There are not enough resources to make biofuels an honestly viable petroleum alternative / replacement in the USA except for a few fringe enthusiasts.
If you think driving a 25+ year old car with a butt load of miles, poor maintenance, pukes black smoke, has NOx emissions 20x the current diesel limit and meets 70's/80's loose emissions standards is "environmentally friendly", you are sadly mistaken. It has been said that 10% of the vehicles make 90% of the pollution. If you want a vehicle that is "clean", buy a new car that meets current or future emissions standards.
The biofuel movement is a fad. There are not enough resources to make biofuels an honestly viable petroleum alternative / replacement in the USA except for a few fringe enthusiasts.
07-17-2007, 12:45 AM
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1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
Smoke 'em!
07-17-2007, 01:39 AM
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1981 300SD TurboDiesel, 1982 300D TurboDiesel
07-17-2007, 10:42 AM
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CLS55 AMG
You just proved that there is nothing truly environmentally friendly. If they really are clean, smog alerts would be a thing of the past.
If you think driving a 25+ year old car with a butt load of miles, poor maintenance, pukes black smoke, has NOx emissions 20x the current diesel limit and meets 70's/80's loose emissions standards is "environmentally friendly", you are sadly mistaken. It has been said that 10% of the vehicles make 90% of the pollution. If you want a vehicle that is "clean", buy a new car that meets current or future emissions standards.
The biofuel movement is a fad. There are not enough resources to make biofuels an honestly viable petroleum alternative / replacement in the USA except for a few fringe enthusiasts.
If you think driving a 25+ year old car with a butt load of miles, poor maintenance, pukes black smoke, has NOx emissions 20x the current diesel limit and meets 70's/80's loose emissions standards is "environmentally friendly", you are sadly mistaken. It has been said that 10% of the vehicles make 90% of the pollution. If you want a vehicle that is "clean", buy a new car that meets current or future emissions standards.
The biofuel movement is a fad. There are not enough resources to make biofuels an honestly viable petroleum alternative / replacement in the USA except for a few fringe enthusiasts.
In any case, while emissions controls have certainly *helped* the problem (compare the air in LA from today w/that of the 50's; while it is still very polluted, it is *much* cleaner than before), they haven't eliminated it. And a large part of the problem is the older diesels. ULSD will help, and as older diesels are replaced w/newer versions, it will help more still.
07-17-2007, 10:46 AM
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CLS55 AMG
240 DT:
You are an honest diesel mechanic working hard to make a living, not some high and mighty nut (H & M) know-all medic type in Greys Anatomy.
Other H & M nuts are the Toyota *****-us hybrid driving, tree-hugging, Birkenstock wearing, anti-smoking, anti-alcohol, anti-anything enjoyable kill joy vegetarian Clintonite non-inhaling no-gooders. Still others are people that think it is cool to call themselves "metal-sexuals" or something.
They is nothing like a large beer and a thick medium rare juicy steak washed down with a large 5% beer following by a quick 100 mph blast down the highway in a large capacity V-8 diesel engine that blows black smoke.
You are an honest diesel mechanic working hard to make a living, not some high and mighty nut (H & M) know-all medic type in Greys Anatomy.
Other H & M nuts are the Toyota *****-us hybrid driving, tree-hugging, Birkenstock wearing, anti-smoking, anti-alcohol, anti-anything enjoyable kill joy vegetarian Clintonite non-inhaling no-gooders. Still others are people that think it is cool to call themselves "metal-sexuals" or something.
They is nothing like a large beer and a thick medium rare juicy steak washed down with a large 5% beer following by a quick 100 mph blast down the highway in a large capacity V-8 diesel engine that blows black smoke.
07-17-2007, 05:08 PM
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2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
who the hell is Steve Colbert?
I just love driving big V-8s fast (did anyway) and the freedom that you are still enjoying south of the border despite legislation happy politicians. You must treasure it and do your utmost to keep it.
Canadians do not have the right to bear arms, pay heavy taxes and have socialised medicine which your rich Commie fatso Moore wants to bring to you. How did it all start? Politicians making heavy weather of "issues" that get votes.
In 2007 the popular issue is gobbly goop warning. Invented by All Zone Goore. In the 1970s Jimmy peanut Carter warned us that the world will run out of oil in 10 years. It has not happened yet. He is better at hammering nails into wood.
07-17-2007, 09:26 PM
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junk that partiscular filter man! urea is for the urinal!
Even a liar like BJ does not labor too much on Google warning or whatever the groovy term is this year. It was called air pollution in 1971, the oil crisis under the peanut farmer's reign and now go-go worming.
The best thing is for the vegie oil guys to drive AAA battery cars and leave the gasoline for the enthusiasts.
07-18-2007, 01:06 AM
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CLS55 AMG
You are a joke, and a bad one at that. Please: take my advice on the car/garage thing, or at least stfu about matters of which you know nothing and comprehend less.
07-18-2007, 01:08 AM
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CLS55 AMG
What I drive to work every day averages 30 mpg on my commute, and is still a gasoline-powered hoot to drive....however, I'll probably be getting either a C220 BT or a BMW 330d (supposed to be coming here next year) for my next commute car.
How about yours? What is it, a bin -100?
Last edited by Improviz; 07-18-2007 at 01:17 AM.
07-18-2007, 01:13 AM
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Well, I'll tell you this: I'd take a million blow-job getting Clintons to one ideological zombie like you who's too stupid and ignorant to view the world as it is, but instead slaps on ideological blinders and denies science. At least he had the brains to comprehend it, unlike intellectual gnats such as you.
The best thing for you to do would be to stop advocating pollution and polluting this forum with your idiotic, fringe political views.
Last edited by otoupalik; 07-30-2007 at 12:32 PM. Reason: FOUL LANGUAGE, VIOLATION OF TOU
