E320 CDi mod
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
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C200cdi
If I understand you right, that kind of reprogramming is not needed.
The original turbo of my car was also VNT.
Newer the less, programming is not a problem here.
We have here a man, who can make such changes in program, that we need, or want.
http://www.turbotec.com/Mika Karala.
In my car, exhaust gas pressure is lower than intake manifold pressure, when the turbo is “on the map”.
So, I have not reach yet the limit of this charger.
Estimated amount of air should be enough for 300hp.
Boost is 2bar max.
There is no smoke at all, now.
Garret does not manufacture AMG 3,0cdi,s turbo 2559 any more.
Compensatory charger is 2359.
The difference is in turbine side of turbo, compressors are equal.
The type of BMW chargers are 2260, and 2556.
Original Mercedes turbos are the best.
They all fits straight to exhaust manifold.
Only a little mods needed to air pipes.
And they works fine, like “originals”, in good ways.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
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C200cdi
Last edited by tuikku; Apr 1, 2008 at 04:21 PM.
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,482
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From: Portugal
'13 E500 Coupe AMG// '17 E350d // '24 E53 AMG
How did you managed to squeeze the intercooler in there!??
Me and my friend LOB are looking to do some similar Mods to our cars (220cdi and 270cdi) Next step is the turbo, and than the intercooler, but we only were looking to put and intercooler similar to the factory one but a little bit bigger, but yours its gigantic!
Did you managed to turn off the EGR valve?
Good project, keep us updated
PS: copy your post to the w203 area also
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 4
From: Portugal
'13 E500 Coupe AMG// '17 E350d // '24 E53 AMG
Your 320CDI turbo is like this one? (the one on the right, forgot the electric geometry, I know it must be in vacuum)
VNT 18 (mine), VNT22, VNT23
Do you have better pics of your instalation... turbo, what you say "air line" and "fuel line"??
I want pics
VNT 18 (mine), VNT22, VNT23
Do you have better pics of your instalation... turbo, what you say "air line" and "fuel line"??
I want pics
Last edited by gaiex; Apr 1, 2008 at 05:22 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 4
From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
How did you managed to squeeze the intercooler in there!??
Me and my friend LOB are looking to do some similar Mods to our cars (220cdi and 270cdi) Next step is the turbo, and than the intercooler, but we only were looking to put and intercooler similar to the factory one but a little bit bigger, but yours its gigantic!
Did you managed to turn off the EGR valve?
Good project, keep us updated
PS: copy your post to the w203 area also
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
.
EGR is deleted.
In program and also physically blocked the EGR-pipe.
You must block the EGR pipe, when boost is higher than EGP.
Otherwise the boost pressure disappears among the EGR pipe straight to exhaust manifold.
My cars original charger was “electric”.
Better 2359 is the “vacuum” model, because the charge air hose leaves to right way.
Now I have “vacuum” charger with electric motor control.
First you need better injectors.
AMG-injectors are good, in start.
1350bar pressure they give ~55hp/cyl.
1600bar ~65hp.
The difference is therefore so small, because original 1350bar injectors don’t work properly any more in 1600bar pressure.
They don’t give such amount of fuel in spray, that program ask, any more.
It depends from injectors operational principals, my English is not enough to explain it now, maybe later.
The only way to really have more power is very efficient and quick spray, only way.
Bigger turbo, or higher boost, or nothing else would not do that.
You must burn more fuel, “in good order”.
You need chiptuning programmer, a good one, who really understand, what you need, and is capable to it.
This is not "ordinary" chiptuning any more.
Some pictures.
EGR is deleted.
In program and also physically blocked the EGR-pipe.
You must block the EGR pipe, when boost is higher than EGP.
Otherwise the boost pressure disappears among the EGR pipe straight to exhaust manifold.
My cars original charger was “electric”.
Better 2359 is the “vacuum” model, because the charge air hose leaves to right way.
Now I have “vacuum” charger with electric motor control.
First you need better injectors.
AMG-injectors are good, in start.
1350bar pressure they give ~55hp/cyl.
1600bar ~65hp.
The difference is therefore so small, because original 1350bar injectors don’t work properly any more in 1600bar pressure.
They don’t give such amount of fuel in spray, that program ask, any more.
It depends from injectors operational principals, my English is not enough to explain it now, maybe later.
The only way to really have more power is very efficient and quick spray, only way.
Bigger turbo, or higher boost, or nothing else would not do that.
You must burn more fuel, “in good order”.
You need chiptuning programmer, a good one, who really understand, what you need, and is capable to it.
This is not "ordinary" chiptuning any more.
Some pictures.
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MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,482
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From: Portugal
'13 E500 Coupe AMG// '17 E350d // '24 E53 AMG
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 4
From: Portugal
'13 E500 Coupe AMG// '17 E350d // '24 E53 AMG
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
.
Cat is empty.
I am not so sure of taking away it.
There are reasons, why it is still there.
“Wires” are:
Exhaust gas temperature.
Exhaust manifold pressure.
Exhaust pipe back pressure.
I have also measured a lot amount of air.
1,7bar……………........................ vs………………...............2.0bar boost.
Red is boost level.
Green is motor rpm.
Yellow is air flow rate, MAF.
Important is the air rate level.
The higher, the better.
Boost is not important at all.
Boost is only a tool to have more air, and not so good tool.
Air flow rate in stock car looks quite different.
Cat is empty.
I am not so sure of taking away it.
There are reasons, why it is still there.
“Wires” are:
Exhaust gas temperature.
Exhaust manifold pressure.
Exhaust pipe back pressure.
I have also measured a lot amount of air.
1,7bar……………........................ vs………………...............2.0bar boost.
Red is boost level.
Green is motor rpm.
Yellow is air flow rate, MAF.
Important is the air rate level.
The higher, the better.
Boost is not important at all.
Boost is only a tool to have more air, and not so good tool.
Air flow rate in stock car looks quite different.
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 4
From: Portugal
'13 E500 Coupe AMG// '17 E350d // '24 E53 AMG
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
You are right.
Try to measure it with different combinations, and you may see something intresting.
As bad is vacuum in turbo intake, or even more harmful.
270cdi turbo is very good for chipped 200/220.
It is very easy to change.
Everything fits, biggest mod are nut between cat bracket and transmission and little adjusting of turbo´s stick.
Turbo peak stopped.
You get some extra pover, couple of hp,because there are less "pumping loss".
It will work "like original", in good ways.
I dont know the right words, hope you understand.
Try to measure it with different combinations, and you may see something intresting.
As bad is vacuum in turbo intake, or even more harmful.
270cdi turbo is very good for chipped 200/220.
It is very easy to change.
Everything fits, biggest mod are nut between cat bracket and transmission and little adjusting of turbo´s stick.
Turbo peak stopped.
You get some extra pover, couple of hp,because there are less "pumping loss".
It will work "like original", in good ways.
I dont know the right words, hope you understand.
Last edited by tuikku; Apr 2, 2008 at 04:06 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 66
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CLK 270CDi
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
Good way to increase the air rate is to change cooler, for instance.
You need much better cooler.
Original is not good.
Intake air temperature rate rises far too high.
System start to limit the fuel rate, when air temperature rises over ~50c level.
With original cooler, temperature rises very quicly above that.
I have measured far over 70c temperatures from chipped cars.
Last edited by tuikku; Apr 2, 2008 at 04:50 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
CLK 270CDi
Look the pictures e.g.
Good way to increase the air rate is to change cooler, for instance.
You need much better cooler.
Original is not good.
Intake air temperature rate rises far too high.
System start to limit the fuel rate, when air temperature rises over ~50c level.
With original cooler, temperature rises very quicly above that.
I have measured far over 70c temperatures from chipped cars.
Good way to increase the air rate is to change cooler, for instance.
You need much better cooler.
Original is not good.
Intake air temperature rate rises far too high.
System start to limit the fuel rate, when air temperature rises over ~50c level.
With original cooler, temperature rises very quicly above that.
I have measured far over 70c temperatures from chipped cars.
Have you a scheme with the sizes of you intercooler? Best regards
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 4
From: Portugal
'13 E500 Coupe AMG// '17 E350d // '24 E53 AMG
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 4
From: Toronto
2006 E320 CDi, 2008 3/4 Ton Suburban, 2007 "rice rickshaw" Accord 5 speed
.
EGR is deleted.
In program and also physically blocked the EGR-pipe.
You must block the EGR pipe, when boost is higher than EGP.
Otherwise the boost pressure disappears among the EGR pipe straight to exhaust manifold.
My cars original charger was “electric”.
Better 2359 is the “vacuum” model, because the charge air hose leaves to right way.
Now I have “vacuum” charger with electric motor control.
First you need better injectors.
AMG-injectors are good, in start.
1350bar pressure they give ~55hp/cyl.
1600bar ~65hp.
The difference is therefore so small, because original 1350bar injectors don’t work properly any more in 1600bar pressure.
They don’t give such amount of fuel in spray, that program ask, any more.
It depends from injectors operational principals, my English is not enough to explain it now, maybe later.
The only way to really have more power is very efficient and quick spray, only way.
Bigger turbo, or higher boost, or nothing else would not do that.
You must burn more fuel, “in good order”.
You need chiptuning programmer, a good one, who really understand, what you need, and is capable to it.
This is not "ordinary" chiptuning any more.
Some pictures.
EGR is deleted.
In program and also physically blocked the EGR-pipe.
You must block the EGR pipe, when boost is higher than EGP.
Otherwise the boost pressure disappears among the EGR pipe straight to exhaust manifold.
My cars original charger was “electric”.
Better 2359 is the “vacuum” model, because the charge air hose leaves to right way.
Now I have “vacuum” charger with electric motor control.
First you need better injectors.
AMG-injectors are good, in start.
1350bar pressure they give ~55hp/cyl.
1600bar ~65hp.
The difference is therefore so small, because original 1350bar injectors don’t work properly any more in 1600bar pressure.
They don’t give such amount of fuel in spray, that program ask, any more.
It depends from injectors operational principals, my English is not enough to explain it now, maybe later.
The only way to really have more power is very efficient and quick spray, only way.
Bigger turbo, or higher boost, or nothing else would not do that.
You must burn more fuel, “in good order”.
You need chiptuning programmer, a good one, who really understand, what you need, and is capable to it.
This is not "ordinary" chiptuning any more.
Some pictures.
Congratulations.
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
Heh, as you can see, I am not sure, even myself, what am I writing.
Air cleaner is still original.
In fact, the whole engine room looks still “stock”, or original.
It is important – for me.
Cooler breadth is 66cm, ~ same as radiator.
High 38,5cm.
Width ~7cm.
Breadth between hoses mid-mid is 85,5cm.
It is important, there is not much space.
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
.
Sorry, my mistake.
Cooler element. 48X38X6cm.
Breadth up 58cm.
Breadth down 66cm.
This size is already enough.
Income air temperature rises only few degrees higher than outside temperature.
It is quite a good result, I am using 2bar boost.
LOB:
What kind of engine do you have ?
Sorry, my mistake.
Cooler element. 48X38X6cm.
Breadth up 58cm.
Breadth down 66cm.
This size is already enough.
Income air temperature rises only few degrees higher than outside temperature.
It is quite a good result, I am using 2bar boost.
LOB:
What kind of engine do you have ?
Last edited by tuikku; Apr 4, 2008 at 01:43 PM.
Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
CLK 270CDi
.
Sorry, my mistake.
Cooler element. 48X38X6cm.
Breadth up 58cm.
Breadth down 66cm.
This size is already enough.
Income air temperature rises only few degrees higher than outside temperature.
It is quite a good result, I am using 2bar boost.
LOB:
What kind of engine do you have ?
Sorry, my mistake.
Cooler element. 48X38X6cm.
Breadth up 58cm.
Breadth down 66cm.
This size is already enough.
Income air temperature rises only few degrees higher than outside temperature.
It is quite a good result, I am using 2bar boost.
LOB:
What kind of engine do you have ?
I have a 270Cdi
Best regards
Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 145
Likes: 1
C200cdi
.
Aha
1350bar, or 1600bar ?
Here in Finland there is a guy, who can rebuild cdi-injectors.
Very high fuel rate parts.
For me, he make such injectors, which flows ~140mm even with the lower pressure (1350bar)
I have 1600bar in my car.
Fuel rate was measured in very reliable place.
Maybe they are first ever made, I don’t know.
Just for reference, “older” superturbo – pumps gives over 70hp/cyl with 120mm fuel rate.
I haven’t yet fasten them into my car.
So, how they really works, is still a little bit mystery.
But soon…
Aha
1350bar, or 1600bar ?
Here in Finland there is a guy, who can rebuild cdi-injectors.
Very high fuel rate parts.
For me, he make such injectors, which flows ~140mm even with the lower pressure (1350bar)
I have 1600bar in my car.
Fuel rate was measured in very reliable place.
Maybe they are first ever made, I don’t know.
Just for reference, “older” superturbo – pumps gives over 70hp/cyl with 120mm fuel rate.
I haven’t yet fasten them into my car.
So, how they really works, is still a little bit mystery.
But soon…
