mixing ATF w/ diesel
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
Yes. Adding even 16oz to a 21 gallon tank is only a 168:1 ratio. Adding a "small" amount as you suggest (4oz average bottle size for 1Gal gas tanks) is a 672:1 ratio!
Such a minute amount will have no effect on the fuel system's lubricity and is physically impossible to produce a significant increase in fuel economy. 2-stroke oil doesn't increase BTUs over an identical volume of Diesel or contain anything that alters the Diesel's chemistry. Even if you consider the added volume of oil is unaccounted for in the fill volume of fuel, 16oz would change MPG from 25mpg to 25.15mpg, and if used consistently would not change the MPG number at all.
If adding 2-stroke oil were such a major advantage then every brand of station would be doing it and marketing the hell out of it to bring in more customers.
Such a minute amount will have no effect on the fuel system's lubricity and is physically impossible to produce a significant increase in fuel economy. 2-stroke oil doesn't increase BTUs over an identical volume of Diesel or contain anything that alters the Diesel's chemistry. Even if you consider the added volume of oil is unaccounted for in the fill volume of fuel, 16oz would change MPG from 25mpg to 25.15mpg, and if used consistently would not change the MPG number at all.
If adding 2-stroke oil were such a major advantage then every brand of station would be doing it and marketing the hell out of it to bring in more customers.
Last edited by 240D 3.0T; Dec 19, 2010 at 12:55 PM.
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
You mean the link to a magazine article that was conducted by enthusiasts under non-controlled conditions? Come back when you've got a link to a peer-reviewed article performed by experienced scientists that can find credible, reproducible, results.
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6.6 LBZ Dmax
Also, do you want to take a stab at what the dilution rates are for most diesel lubricant, anti-gel or Cetane improvement additives? It doesn't take a large quantity...but wait, you say they do nothing.
Go talk to Stanadyne and tell them that, LMAO !!
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
Also, do you want to take a stab at what the dilution rates are for most diesel lubricant, anti-gel or Cetane improvement additives?
Try acting less like a sarcastic child and more like an educated adult.
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6.6 LBZ Dmax
Haha, a funny guy, LMAO.
How about taking some midol and a nap
As you said, 2 stroke is a lubricant for gas 2 stroke engines that have no lube however putting it in diesel doesn't change that its a lubricant designed to be burnt!
I don't need more proof than seeing my MPG average has want up repeatedly after using it and the motor runs noticeably smoother.
I pay a lot more attention to mileage than most people but so what, who cares? It does give me the reason for continued use though when I see the results and the extra lube could extend the life of the wear items in the injection system. The articles and other peoples testimonials only back up what I have witnessed.
Nobody said YOU have to use it but discounting someone's experience when you have never tested it yourself seems pretty stupid, petty and immature.
How about testing yourself and then coming back in 6 months and tell everyone it doesn't work then....it'll never happen unless its a Lie.
Or option B, don't be a armchair quarterback about something you have ZERO experience with?
How about taking some midol and a nap
As you said, 2 stroke is a lubricant for gas 2 stroke engines that have no lube however putting it in diesel doesn't change that its a lubricant designed to be burnt!
I don't need more proof than seeing my MPG average has want up repeatedly after using it and the motor runs noticeably smoother.
I pay a lot more attention to mileage than most people but so what, who cares? It does give me the reason for continued use though when I see the results and the extra lube could extend the life of the wear items in the injection system. The articles and other peoples testimonials only back up what I have witnessed.
Nobody said YOU have to use it but discounting someone's experience when you have never tested it yourself seems pretty stupid, petty and immature.
How about testing yourself and then coming back in 6 months and tell everyone it doesn't work then....it'll never happen unless its a Lie.
Or option B, don't be a armchair quarterback about something you have ZERO experience with?
Last edited by KB3MMX; Dec 19, 2010 at 06:36 PM.
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6.6 LBZ Dmax
Anyway, you do understand that he(mi Benz) was correct that the plungers and barrels live in diesel, only the "underside" of the plungers are lubed by engine oil....add the injectors to a wear area that relies on lubricity of the fuel as well.
Last edited by KB3MMX; Dec 19, 2010 at 07:02 PM.
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
Okay little boy. I'll leave you to play with the other children. If any adults would like to continue the discussion, please chime in.
It also doesn't change the fact its not designed to mix with diesel and that it doesn't come in contact with anything when in atomized form.
Nobody is trying to convince you it works, in your imagination it already works, we are asking you to convince us.
Actually you don't. Your duramax was designed to operate with ULSD, increasing lubricity will have zero effect on component life.
If you believe anecdotes then I have a cage fan here that thousands of people testify will work as a supercharge and add up to 50hp. I'll make you a deal and sell it to you for $200, $100 off the average price.
Have you tested that jumping off a 10 story building hurts? I haven't but I believe others that it does. How about you go test that theory and I'll watch the news for your result.
Let me repeat myself for the children (you) in this thread)...
"I have yet to see a credible test conclude that it does actually work. I have better things to do with my time and money than put crap in my tank that wasn't designed to be used with diesel."
You need to take a look in the mirror little boy. Do you even own a Mercedes or do you just enjoy trolling forums and making yourself look ignorant?
I'm sorry if education and real-world experience scares you.
That is false information.
Also false information. The only significant wear area of an injector is the nozzle seat where it sees frequent (contact) impact with metal.
If you wish to continue the discussion I suggest you open a book, preferable by a reputable source such as Bosch, and catch up with everyone else here.
As you said, 2 stroke is a lubricant for gas 2 stroke engines that have no lube however putting it in diesel doesn't change that its a lubricant designed to be burnt!
I don't need more proof than seeing my MPG average has want up repeatedly after using it and the motor runs noticeably smoother.
I see the results and the extra lube could extend the life of the wear items in the injection system.
The articles and other peoples testimonials only back up what I have witnessed.
you have never tested it yourself seems pretty stupid, petty and immature.
How about testing yourself and then coming back in 6 months and tell everyone it doesn't work then
"I have yet to see a credible test conclude that it does actually work. I have better things to do with my time and money than put crap in my tank that wasn't designed to be used with diesel."
Or option B, don't be a armchair quarterback about something you have ZERO experience with?
You come off as a real spoiled teenage punk with your posts sometimes.
the plungers and barrels live in diesel, only the "underside" of the plungers are lubed by engine oil
add the injectors to a wear area that relies on lubricity of the fuel as well.
If you wish to continue the discussion I suggest you open a book, preferable by a reputable source such as Bosch, and catch up with everyone else here.
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6.6 LBZ Dmax
Ok, so you have proved nothing tough guy other than you must have limited knowledge of the workings of the injection system let alone hands on experience with a diesel.
So , again, how about stepping up to the plate like a big boy and doing some testing of your own instead of all the teenage outbursts of hot air?
When you have actually tried what you want to ridicule people for then by all means , voice your disgust but you currently have ZERO, NADA, ZILCH to offer anyone other than opinion due your lack of experience.
Run along now and get busy.
So , again, how about stepping up to the plate like a big boy and doing some testing of your own instead of all the teenage outbursts of hot air?
When you have actually tried what you want to ridicule people for then by all means , voice your disgust but you currently have ZERO, NADA, ZILCH to offer anyone other than opinion due your lack of experience.
Run along now and get busy.
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
This message is hidden because KB3MMX is on your ignore list.
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
This message is hidden because KB3MMX is on your ignore list.
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
Originally Posted by KB3MMX
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From: Vancouver, Republic of Canuckstan
81 300sd, 83 300dT, F350, 250 diesel & 16 ft car trailer
Dont worry this 240D dude is a pretty sick puppy, needs a lot of help.
u do have a lot of internal issues that the very reason u need to be self righteous, branding everybody a thief, liar.
I bet u cant look into a mirror to have a good look at yourself. U cannot be at peace with yourself and everybody else. I take u have more fingers in 1 hand than u have as friends.
God help u.
u do have a lot of internal issues that the very reason u need to be self righteous, branding everybody a thief, liar.
I bet u cant look into a mirror to have a good look at yourself. U cannot be at peace with yourself and everybody else. I take u have more fingers in 1 hand than u have as friends.
God help u.
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6.6 LBZ Dmax
Thanks... I think.
All 240D needs to do is provide something other than his heresay in the argument but he has no tests or data of any sort.
At least I have provided a link to a test with some data....where is his data from tests that says it doesn't work??......Crickets
All 240D needs to do is provide something other than his heresay in the argument but he has no tests or data of any sort.
At least I have provided a link to a test with some data....where is his data from tests that says it doesn't work??......Crickets
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From: Federal Heights, CO
1982 300D VNT, 1980 240D 3.0T, 1982 300TD
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From: Fullerton California
2005 C55, 1969 Z/28, 2001 E320 (Totaled)
BP, Shell and Chevron all exceed the European spec. BP and Shell limit their product to a max of 450 microns with an typical test of 400.
All this info is easily accessed on you favorite fuel vendor web site.
All this info is easily accessed on you favorite fuel vendor web site.
Europe has had a lubrication spec (460 micron wear scar max) for well over a decade now. The US spec is not as demanding (520 micron wear scar allowed). Therefore the fuel found at US retail pumps is not required to meet the fuel spec most of our cars were designed to work with. This is why I use a lubricity additive.
I am fortunate to have quality biodiesel available and use anywhere from B2-B5 for lubricity. I would not use ATF in a fuel system.
I am fortunate to have quality biodiesel available and use anywhere from B2-B5 for lubricity. I would not use ATF in a fuel system.
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6.6 LBZ Dmax
Biodiesel addition is another excellent way to reduce that wear scar value from improved lubricity. I remember reading that a small percentage 2-5% volume added to conventional diesel had a fairly significant increase in lubricity.....and is meant to be burnt, unlike ATF.
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/f...Lubricity.PDF*
http://www.uiweb.uidaho.edu/bioenerg...cation/06.pdf*
.
Last edited by KB3MMX; Jan 17, 2011 at 01:31 PM.
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From: Vancouver, Republic of Canuckstan
81 300sd, 83 300dT, F350, 250 diesel & 16 ft car trailer
240D
a question, if you're so smart how come you not rich, people with your knowledge should be arriving in Maybach or we should say u being frugal driving 30 yrs old cars, commanding several grand to do a speech or write for the state of Union address.
so why would u argue here for nothing and get no respect, sink down to our low ground level?
a question, if you're so smart how come you not rich, people with your knowledge should be arriving in Maybach or we should say u being frugal driving 30 yrs old cars, commanding several grand to do a speech or write for the state of Union address.
so why would u argue here for nothing and get no respect, sink down to our low ground level?
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From: San Antonio, TX, USA
98 E300
I've been to those fuel sites, and never saw any claims to < 450 micron, with the exception of BP Supreme. Please post a link if you ever come across one for Shell. Thanks.
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Here's more info on testing of fuel additives: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=177728
Oh darn, look how the wear scar decreased with cheap 2 Stroke oil.
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6.6 LBZ Dmax
240D
a question, if you're so smart how come you not rich, people with your knowledge should be arriving in Maybach or we should say u being frugal driving 30 yrs old cars, commanding several grand to do a speech or write for the state of Union address.
so why would u argue here for nothing and get no respect, sink down to our low ground level?
a question, if you're so smart how come you not rich, people with your knowledge should be arriving in Maybach or we should say u being frugal driving 30 yrs old cars, commanding several grand to do a speech or write for the state of Union address.
so why would u argue here for nothing and get no respect, sink down to our low ground level?
