harkgar

The only likely new MB diesel engine coming to north America is the 2.1 liter 4 cylinder with 204 bhp. Does anyone know if this engine needs urea injection? VW's TDi 2 liter engine does not.

Furthermore, both BMW and Audi are planning to ship across the pond BIG horse engines! The BMW 535d has 300 bhp and 440 pound foot at idle. The Audi has 300 bhp and somewhat less torque. The BMW is said to be nearly as quick as the V-10 M5 but with double the fuel economy.

What are you thinking Mr. Ernst Lieb??? Please give us big horses!!!

DubVBenz

It's sort of disappointing to see BMW take the Diesel lead..

I'm considering getting a 335d in the next year simply because I'd prefer more power. From what I understand, it's the same engine as the 535d but with a different tune. On the BMW forums all the owners use a tuning box or ECU flash to get well over 300HP. I do have a KD-box which gave me 10-15HP though

harkgar

The new engine's numbers are truly uplifting with nearly 50% more horses and 11% more torque and superior fuel economy. I think the European cousins of these engines do not have urea injection, yet, and we can easily reflash the ECU to European standards and get rid of the urea non-sense. Blow some smoke guys!!!

Snipe656

The 335d is definitely great car to step into for some power and still get that diesel fuel economy. Not only do they make more power via just max numbers but the power delivery is pretty amazing due to how the turbos are setup. I bought my 335d because at the time Mercedes was not even selling diesel sedans new so I decided to go and test drive the BMW offering. The BMW to me is a great compromise between a commuter and fun car. It though is a tad on the small side and can feel a little cramped but I am also commuting with my wife and two kids(2 and 10 year olds). I am actually looking into getting out of my 335d and into something else, possibly a E350 Blutec or possibly into some sort of gasser.

2slowcdi

What I would like to see is the 3.5 L in the E350 not the 3.0 L. Should that be a E300 instead of the E350?

lkchris

E300 and E350 are same displacement engine, just different states of tune.

2slowcdi

Not in the UK they have the 2987cc that we have here and they have a 3498cc as does the rest of the E.U. .
Both are listed as BlueEffciency and the 3.0L is listed as BlueTec also.

ImInPA

I have an E350 Bluetec and have absolutely no complaints in the performance department. I would like to see MB offer a higher performance tune for the current motor (as they use in the S). I regularly exceed 40 mpg on the highway (per computer) and overall mileage since new is 33 mpg, also per computer.

Snipe656

I have driven the E350 Blutec a few times and really like the car. The performance of it is just fine but when compared to the 335d it is not even fair to compare the two in regards to performance. I have driven them back to back and at normal throttle levels the E350 will end up feeling sluggish if comparing to the BMW. What I think it is, is the difference turbocharging routes taken. The small turbo in the BMW just seems like it kicks in instantly with the slightest amount of throttle. The single in the E350 feels a lot like how my truck is, like it does not even really kick in at all with normal amounts of throttle. I'd imagine if that is the case then it probably actually helps with city mileage, something the BMW seems to almost guzzle diesel in comparisons to say my old 300SD.

2slowcdi

I just spoke to a friend and the BlueEfficiency is a Gasser.

harkgar

When the 535d becomes available next year I would be first in line. MB is seriously falling behind on the horsepower front compared with BMW, like in the 1980s. MB can build much better (higher horsepower and torque) engines but refused to do so. They only have to look at the truckers with mega horsepower engines like the Cummins and they should know what to do. Performance and speed can go hand in hand and to give us only 200 odd horses in the Bluetec is crazy. Even Audi is going to boost its V-6 TDi engines to 300 horses.

harkgar

Are you listening Mercedes North America?

Snipe656

I read on a BMW forum a couple weeks ago that the 535d is not coming next year. Someone had a list of all the upcoming models and no diesel 5 or 3 series. I'd imagine lack of a 3 because of it going to it's new chassis and having to wait a model year.

harkgar

Maybe so but MB is not even introducing diesel engines that are comparable in power and torque to BMW ones in Europe. All MB Bluetec engines in the USA are all around 200 bhp and 400 pound foot of torque, irrespective of whether they are placed in the E, ML, GL or R series. Nowhere near the new BMW engines.

Why? MB is also selling its diesel cars at prices higher than BMW?

Snipe656

It is hard to try and to compare the two. When looking at interior sizes of say the X5d it is not really a direct comparisons to the M but the prices are roughly the same. If looking at sedans then you pay roughly $5k more for a E350 Blutec over a 335d but a 335d is around the size of a C class not an E. Now the one thing BMW has going for them is they to this day still offer "Eco Credits" on their diesels, I think it is $3500 right now. It is not uncommon for people buying a new 335d to get around $7-10k off the MSRP after the "Eco Credit" and dealers knocking some off. I do not know if that happens much with Blutecs, I get the impression they tend to sell near their MSRPs.

Now when you throw in options it can become a whole other world. I am just referring to cars with no options or little options.

lkchris

Sorry, but the 3498cc BlueEfficiency engine is a gasoline engine.

Its power ratings are
306 hp @6500 rpm
370 nm torque at 3500 rpm

There's no such thing as a 6500 rpm diesel, even the LeMans Audis don't redline that fast.

And, that's a pretty paltry torque figure, as the 2987cc Bluetec rates 620.

It's the new M276.

pinebaron

I think just a mix up of models
E 350 CGI BlueEFFICIENCY 3,498 cc (3.498 L; 213.5 cu in) V6 292 PS (215 kW; 288 hp) 365 N·m (269 lb·ft)

E 350 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY 2,987 cc (2.987 L; 182.3 cu in) V6 265 PS (195 kW; 261 hp) 620 N·m (460 lb·ft)

dougiebear

VW TDI does require urea ADBLUE in anything bigger then a Jetta.
This is why the Tiguan TDI has not arrived yet.
The engine works too hard with bigger vehicles like the new US Passat

dougiebear

Guess you didn't spec a new ML 350 Bluetec
240 HP 455#ft

Snipe656

I had been wondering just today if the new Passat was going to need the exhaust **** or not.

ilyago

The 2012 Passat TDI uses AdBlue. This lets it get better mileage (43 highway) than Golf/Jetta TDI.

The 2012 ML 350 Bluetec gets a bump in HP and Torque, but looks like the E, R, and GL Bluetecs will continue with the 2011 spec 210HP / 400 Ft-Lbs diesel engine. I wonder if the increased power is a physical change or a re-programming of the ECU?

Snipe656

It's a change to how the engine is made. I read about it a couple weeks ago, so my vague details might be wrong but I believe it is something to do with the process used for the cylinder walls. That is in regards to the ML and has really made me all but discounted a new E Blutec since figuring the others will get the change in a year or so.

dougiebear

3 series BMW is a small car Jetta is roomier etc
Of course a 335 is faster then a E Class E is huge in comparison.
I have it from 3 heads from Toronto's very mouths "Diesels will be in 2013 GLK and the C Class" soon made in USA. "In the 2012 calander year."

The 250 4cyl with gobs of HP and Torque in new Euro ML 1500km range well over 40 MPG Can

PS:
last time I checked X5 335D cost more then ML Bluetec
3 series should be cheaper then a E Class but a gas 5 series about same or more then E Class so let make equal comparisons

Snipe656

I cross shopped the ML and the X5d at one point and they were very close to the same cost.

Regardless of the size of the 335d v. the E350, the BMW makes not only a good bit more power but it comes on a lot more "in your face" than the Blutec. Combine that with the transmission differences and the BMW comes off ton quicker for driving around town, no idea how numbers like 0-60 compare though. I really had my heart set on getting a new E350 Blutec to replace my 335d and after driving one again felt it was a huge let down.

harkgar

You could be right Dougie Bear. I was trying to make the point that historically MB would only move when kicked in the butt by other makes - by Lexus with the Special class and now with the BMW diesel offerings. There is no reason at all why MB gives the new S350 Bluetec and ML 350 Bluetec both 240 bhp & 455 torque while deliberately offering the lower power engines in its E, GL and R series diesels. I would feel very aggrieved if I am shopping for a diesel car and seeing that MB is trying to short-change its customers in the power department. Why is MB driving its loyal customers to Audi and BMW instead of turning the wick up by adjusting the computer?