I posted the following on the Benzworld site and received one reply that it may be coming from the turbo:
Please see the attached results from my last oil analysis. The summary states the following:

"MICHAEL: We usually start highlighting metals when they go above twice the average level, and iron and copper both meet that criteria this time around. In part, your long oil run has something to do with these levels, although both metals are reading more than twice the average level even though you've gone less than twice the average miles (averages are based on ~6,500 miles of oil use). That means your engine is making more metal than normal on a per-mile basis. Copper and iron show wear at a bronze/steel interface, like bushings. For now, just check back to monitor."

I was doing oil changes at 8k miles, but am have started doing it at 10k mile interviews, not that it should matter with the results. I have an extended warranty until January and plan on taking it to the dealer during August to get a couple of items looked at. Any feedback is appreciated!
Mike T.

 

Interesting topic.

Is there any info or literature which actually states the life or duration of the oil itself up until the point it begins to break down so as to no longer provide an adequate level of protection ???

With that info you could then more precisely time the oil changes.

 

My understanding with synthetic oil is that it really does not break down. It may loose its additives over time, but with regular scheduled oil filter changes, the oil should last 30k plus miles. I am not one to keep oil in my car for that long.
As for changing oil at 6500 miles or 10k miles, I am still getting more metal wear from copper and iron.
My main question, where else is copper (bronze/steel) bushings located in the cdi engine?
Mike T.

 

Let me preface my remarks by saying ---you won't like my response never the less--

This is one of those "why is the sky blue" questions and an isolated single test--no history, no driving records, nada therefore why worry!!

It's like a single balance sheet-- only good for the day the auditor signed off.

My point is that the manufacture designs engines and prescribes lubrication specs knowing acceptable ware---follow the recommendations, try to drive in the same manner(similar loads) as the last oil change and then do another oil analysis--are there any similarities??.

With regard to your specific question-----"where" I am not an engine engineer and haven't got the FI about an educated answer as to where!

PS: I did read the data-----I just do not know how MB defines acceptable ware--is your data within tolorance or not??

 

Thanks Plutoe, I appreciate your response, but if you did look at the attachment, you will see that the iron and copper readings have gone up at every oil change since 2010. Iron went from 49, 72, 75, 91, and 107. The copper has gone from 3, 4, 4, 5, and 6. These readings are from five oil analysis, are they similar, no, only the iron and copper readings are twice the average. The rest of the readings are within universal averages.
I cannot see changing the oil any sooner than 10k miles.
Again, my main question is that if anyone knows of any bronze/steel interfaces (bushings) within the engine besides the turbo that the oil passes through.
Thanks again and enjoy the 4th!
Mike T.

 

I think it is not clear that bronze is the cause of the copper. Bronze is roughly 1/4 tin, and your analysis shows no tin. In fact the copper is not bad. What seems high is the iron. I am a chemist by training but I have never run an analysis on my cars. It seems to me that it is hard to come to conclusions about what the results mean. But I have read on these forums that Mobil 1 has a tendency to show high iron in oil analysis. I don't know what is causing the high iron, but I have switched to another brand of synthetic, as high iron can not be good. You might want to try another brand to see the effect on your future results.

 

A moderator Mr. Ruck on the W204 forum is an expert lube oil man . I would ask your question there & show him the results.

 

Change to 0W-40 which has more wear inhibitors. Your catalytic converters have longer warrantees which is why MB wants less of the wear inhibitors which can reduce the cat life.

 

This is an isolated sample & no trend has been established. We need a number of back to back samples to establish a trend. The oil is in good condition with more than adequate additive content. There is no silica ingress so air filtration is fine & viscosity is normal showing no fuel dilution.

Dirt & fuel ingress are the most usual causes of higher than normal wear in diesels. You have neither. The Si you see is silicone. The foam inhibitor.

Every engine has it's own wear norms and we need to establish yours. I would not loose sleep over this. Let's see what the next sample looks like. There are many steel/bronze interfaces in these engines.

I would be more interested in typical service this vehicle see's. Does it do a lot of short trips not fully warmed up with a lot of stop/start driving? Does it idle a lot? Do you drive it hard before fully warmed up & clearances have normalised? What is your shut down procedure? Do you shut down the engine immediately after long hard runs?

Does this car have a Cat & particulate filter & regen unit? If not you could move to the 229.5 formulations rather than 229.51. Frankly it's not necessary though & will shorten diesel Cat life.

 

Thank you Glyn for your reply. You say that you need a number of back to back samples to establish a trend. Doesn't the past five oil change analysis establish a trend?

The news that there are many steel/bronze interfaces in the engine is not the greatest news to me.

To answer some of your other questions:
--By short trips, I do to many that are under 15 miles.
--It does not idle a lot.
--I do not drive it hard until it is fully warmed up. In fact I only fully depress the pedal when getting on the interstate to clear the carbon. I get a lot of black smoke when I do this. Once in a while, just giving it moderate to heavy throttle I will see some black smoke.
--The only hard runs my cdi sees is on the interstates, cruising between 70 and 80 mph. The engine has time to "cool" down before I shut it off.

Since this is a 2006 cdi, it does not have the Cat and particulate filter and regen unit. I could try the 229.5 oil and see what happens.

One of my main concerns is that my extended warranty expires in January. I was hoping to catch whatever it may be before then.

Thanks again!
Mike T.

 

Thanks John ,

Oh, that's OK MT, a pleasure.!

 

Sorry ~ my bad. I was so focused on the recent sample that I did not look at the old ones ~ expanded the latest sample to full screen. What we still need is to see the next sample to see if this sample is in fact representative or spurious or whether the upward trend will continue. Also if you don't sample in exactly the same fashion every time you will see variations. The ideal sample is on a fully warm engine bled off after the filter.i.e. what the engine see's. This is not easy unless a bleed nipple has been installed in the pressure feed. If you sample the crap in the bottom of the sump your wear metals will be high. You have to be consistent with sampling method.

What oil was this car running on in 2010? It is a different formulation.

The black smoke you see is just some overfuelling until the MAF catches up. It's not doing any harm as you have no fuel dilution & insolubles (soot) is normal.

You are driving sensibly. After a hard run you should idle the vehicle for a short while to let the turbo slow down before cutting the oil supply. Seems you are doing that.

Your iron trend has always been slightly high. The copper is really insignificant.

Unless you continue seeing iron wear in the >100ppm range I don't think you have a problem. Short trips are aggravating wear but not chronically.

I think we have a situation here where the sample is not particularly representative due to slightly higher mileage & possibly sampling method not being consistent.

I don't think you are heading for a failure ~ nothing is above industry condemning limits. There is no doubt that the engine was happier on the oil you used up until the 2010 sampling unless the service the vehicle was doing was very different at that time. (only long open road runs)

Sample again in 8000 miles & don't lose sleep.

Good luck.

 

I purchased the vehicle in 2010. The previous owner had all services performed by MB, so I assume that Mobil 1 esp was used as dealers do not like to stock different oils. I also believe that the owner did mostly short trips in Northern Virginia and sold it because of high maintenance costs (Fuel filter, brakes, alignments, etc.).

I will go back to the 8000 mile oil changes and switch to the non esp oil.
Thanks again!
Mike T.

 

I suspect that the bushings mentioned by Blackstone are those that are part of the rod and main bearings on the crankshaft. These bushings are typically copper faced with an alloy like babbitt. The babbitt contains lead, and you have no lead. I also don't feel your copper is particularly high.

I would suggest that you go to benzworld.org, E class/w210 section, and go to the top of the page where it says "Google search" and type in "oil analysis high iron". I think you will find some interesting stuff in there.