Another 2010 ML350 Bluetec engine seized
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Joined: Dec 2014
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2003 C320
Just for the record, I have a 2012 R350 Blutec, currently at 90,000 miles. I haven't driven it for 12 months, as I'm afraid of what will break next. The timing chain was "stretched" at 89,000 miles, discovered when it went to the dealership for exhaust gas in the cabin, which was a cross over tube gasket. $3,100 and 6 weeks to repair. Less than 1,000 miles later, the 'AdBlu low" light came on as did the CEL with the associated countdown of starts remaining, and refused to go out after refilling the tank. The Mercedes service department was deplorable, sending me away for a week with the vehicle running in their drive with 4 starts remaining even though I live 125 miles from the dealership. "Too busy today. No, we don't have loaner cars. Would you like to to call Enterprise?" That repair took 8 weeks and ran $3400 (MBUSA contributed $1000 after I whined).
I don't even know if I have a sludge issue; I'm afraid to find out. I know as soon as I drive it, the AdBlu tank and pump will fail, transmission cooling lines will fail, and by the time that is repaired, the timing chain will be failing again.
This is my 4th and last Mercedes. It has always had it's scheduled maintenance on time by the dealership, using MB oil. It's the worst car I've ever owned, and the worst service I've ever experienced.
The Infinity I purchased since has been flawless, and the service is golden.
Mercedes-Benz. The best or nothing. I got the nothing end of the deal.
I don't even know if I have a sludge issue; I'm afraid to find out. I know as soon as I drive it, the AdBlu tank and pump will fail, transmission cooling lines will fail, and by the time that is repaired, the timing chain will be failing again.
This is my 4th and last Mercedes. It has always had it's scheduled maintenance on time by the dealership, using MB oil. It's the worst car I've ever owned, and the worst service I've ever experienced.
The Infinity I purchased since has been flawless, and the service is golden.
Mercedes-Benz. The best or nothing. I got the nothing end of the deal.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
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1997 E300D
It sounds to me like your problem is your dealer, not your car. A stretched timing chain at 90,000 miles? I would guess that the truth is what was stretched. I believe sludgeing can be prevented by just changing the recommended oil every 5,000 miles instead of the much longer interval recommended by Mercedes, but keep in mind that no one is sure why the sludgeing occurs, so I could be wrong.
Last edited by nelbur; Aug 23, 2018 at 10:55 PM.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
You can do a very simple test on a piece of blotting paper ( Chromatographic paper is best). Place a drop of oil from the dipstick on the blotting paper & let it stand for a while. If it looks like 6A, B or C as the oil ages it is taking the soot etc with it so the dispersant is doing it's job. If it leaves a dark soot spot in the center like 6D but the oil spreads outside that center spot you know the oil dispersency is shot & could lead to sludging. Change it!
As I said earlier the sludging regime can be very complex but this is the absolute basics & a simple go~ no go test.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Aug 24, 2018 at 02:50 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2015
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From: Montana, USA
formerly drove a 2010 ML350 BLUETEC, currently drive Mazda, Chevrolet, and Toyota
I followed these steps too since the day I purchased my 2010 ML350 BLUETEC new, with no signs of sludge to my untrained eyes. I followed the MB-recommended maintenance schedule at the dealer when I had my Bluetec. Once I even returned my car to the dealer shortly after a routine service to ask why the fresh oil looked black. The mechanics explained it's normal in the OM642 for oil to look dirty. Shortly after that visit, my OM642 engine seized at around 82,000 miles and I eventually washed my hands of MB after starting this thread. It's good this discussion is helping many others in similar situations.
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Gl 350 Bluetec
MB Reliability and Bluetec Engine Seizure lockup.
To Sailingfool and Krd2023.
I owned MB for 25 years and many other cars. I know about oil changes.
i agree that MB quality has gone down. They are stil quiet and safe, but what is most important for Majority of people is RELIABILITY!!!
i have posted reviews from edmunds. We can see what happened to me, Krd2023, the youtube video owner who spent 20,000 dollars replacing the sludged engine.
one common factor is All these products by MB are Diesels. The last Good diesel was the 2008 CDI engine (in the USA).
excuses like changing oil every 5000 miles are mute....the Bluetec engine will Seize without warning. During those 5000 miles oil changes it can seize as the damage occurs at the surface of the metal.
finally, Mercedes by reaction to KRD2023 and others have COMPLETELY lost my Trust and many others.....The fear of Lawsuits just make their behavior even worst!!!.
our next SUV per my wife has to be different Quality company not MB.
no one can buy an Unreliable car when everyone is busy and have other issues to worry about.
AGAIN THE takeaway is NEVER Buy a Bluetec engine unless you enjoy Gambling. Gas costs more in fuel MPG but it will NOT Seize.
the Second Takeaway is MB does not Value their loyal customers by reaching out and fixing the Seizure issue.
the Third, MB needs to build RELIABLE cars. Safety, comfort, style, and tech are all Great if the CAR IS RUNNING!!!
good luck.
I owned MB for 25 years and many other cars. I know about oil changes.
i agree that MB quality has gone down. They are stil quiet and safe, but what is most important for Majority of people is RELIABILITY!!!
i have posted reviews from edmunds. We can see what happened to me, Krd2023, the youtube video owner who spent 20,000 dollars replacing the sludged engine.
one common factor is All these products by MB are Diesels. The last Good diesel was the 2008 CDI engine (in the USA).
excuses like changing oil every 5000 miles are mute....the Bluetec engine will Seize without warning. During those 5000 miles oil changes it can seize as the damage occurs at the surface of the metal.
finally, Mercedes by reaction to KRD2023 and others have COMPLETELY lost my Trust and many others.....The fear of Lawsuits just make their behavior even worst!!!.
our next SUV per my wife has to be different Quality company not MB.
no one can buy an Unreliable car when everyone is busy and have other issues to worry about.
AGAIN THE takeaway is NEVER Buy a Bluetec engine unless you enjoy Gambling. Gas costs more in fuel MPG but it will NOT Seize.
the Second Takeaway is MB does not Value their loyal customers by reaching out and fixing the Seizure issue.
the Third, MB needs to build RELIABLE cars. Safety, comfort, style, and tech are all Great if the CAR IS RUNNING!!!
good luck.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
I agree with much of this & think that MBUSA has treated it's customers poorly. I also believe that Tuscaloosa did a poor job of building ML's. South Africa moved to supply from Graz as a result. The Graz build quality was superb. Subsequent to the ending of the Graz contract we have reverted to Tuscaloosa supply & they are now a lot better. krd has in particular been badly treated although the initial dealer finding was low oil level plus sludge which has not been resolved here
What I don't agree with is "excuses like changing oil every 5000 miles are mute (s/b moot)....the Bluetec engine will Seize without warning. During those 5000 miles oil changes it can seize as the damage occurs at the surface of the metal."?? There is absolutely no indication that this is true globally. Seizures reported have resulted from sludge preventing oil flow.
What I don't agree with is "excuses like changing oil every 5000 miles are mute (s/b moot)....the Bluetec engine will Seize without warning. During those 5000 miles oil changes it can seize as the damage occurs at the surface of the metal."?? There is absolutely no indication that this is true globally. Seizures reported have resulted from sludge preventing oil flow.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Aug 25, 2018 at 09:25 PM.
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From: McDade, Texas
W211 e320 CDI
So total for my OM642 replacement on 145k mike Sprinter was $16800 all but $2500 covered under shop keepers insurance. Runs well again, all new parts. It’s likely at the first sign of ANY issues it is reflashed and de-emissioned. Sort of got lucky this time. As stated previously my coworker didn’t get oilfilter cap o-ring seated correctly so THIS failure was 100% our fault. Fingers crossed for better lunch this time.
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Gl 350 Bluetec
Bluetec Engine seizure.
To Micah /AF1
while im glad your insurance covered it, it DOES NOT Resolve the underlying issue of Engine Seizure.
your insurance paid 14000 to replace an engine...think about it....the seizure should never happened.
i think it is OUTRAGEOUS to worry about engine seizure with Regular oil Changes.....
we can go on and on in a circle.....Engine seizure is an issue only in Bluetec diesel by MB, their gasoline engines almost never seize unless deliberately done.
i will NEVER buy Bluetec diesel by MB. I lost 19 000, time in months, feel cheated...
i still have high oppinion of their GASOLINE cars but really only the S Class. I have one but thats it for now.
my next SUV will be a different brand not a GL Bluetec. Maybe GL gasoline, probably a different company altogether.
while im glad your insurance covered it, it DOES NOT Resolve the underlying issue of Engine Seizure.
your insurance paid 14000 to replace an engine...think about it....the seizure should never happened.
i think it is OUTRAGEOUS to worry about engine seizure with Regular oil Changes.....
we can go on and on in a circle.....Engine seizure is an issue only in Bluetec diesel by MB, their gasoline engines almost never seize unless deliberately done.
i will NEVER buy Bluetec diesel by MB. I lost 19 000, time in months, feel cheated...
i still have high oppinion of their GASOLINE cars but really only the S Class. I have one but thats it for now.
my next SUV will be a different brand not a GL Bluetec. Maybe GL gasoline, probably a different company altogether.
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Joined: Jan 2011
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From: McDade, Texas
W211 e320 CDI
The failure of MY OM642 was 100% the fault of my coworker, bottom line. I only added to thread to reflect Texas (Central) pricing. Yes there was early indications visible of sludging but that did not kill our motor. If I owned an OM642 powered e class I would do it just like my OM648 and delete ALL of the BS and make it proper.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
All engines will seize with a lack of oil. Micah's engine seized due to a lack of lubrication. There are plenty of Bluetec's around the world with over a million Km's on them. Many in Taxi service. On Euro 5 fuel they never give trouble. That's what they were designed for.
People endlessly conflate issues which is meaningless & thus place their heads in the sand. Yes Benz USA has treated customers poorly. No the Bluetec is not a badly designed engine. It is not prone to seizure. Any engine will seize with no lubrication.
People have every right to complain & feel hard done by due to MBUSA treatment. Throwing unfounded aspersions with zero technical basis at the engine makes little sense other than spite.
People endlessly conflate issues which is meaningless & thus place their heads in the sand. Yes Benz USA has treated customers poorly. No the Bluetec is not a badly designed engine. It is not prone to seizure. Any engine will seize with no lubrication.
People have every right to complain & feel hard done by due to MBUSA treatment. Throwing unfounded aspersions with zero technical basis at the engine makes little sense other than spite.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Aug 27, 2018 at 06:31 AM.
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84 300d 2009 e320 bluetec (retired)/, now 2012 E350 4-matic blueefficiency automatic
With the USA switch to ulsd fuel, fuel quality should be very consistent in the US. The talk about not using premium diesel as the cause is another matter. In the USA, premium diesel is high sulfur diesel and hard to get in the USA. Biodiesel is another matter. I don’t really see that the added urea system on the post dpf exhaust could affect the oil.
mercedes muddled the water by calling some engines with only the dpf as bluetec and cdi, eg 2009 e320 bluetech.
my used 2009 e320 bluetec had multiple oxygen sensors replaced, exhaust temp sensor cel-carbon build up, swirl motor and connectors replaced, glow plug control module replaced, turbo replaced, front wheel bearings, oil leaking now, transmission not engaging if below freezing — lots of repairs but it get 20 mpg city and 36-38 mph highway. Costly to maintain with the special motor oil and repairs. Most lastly car to maintain and repair — almost all at 80000 miles.
mercedes muddled the water by calling some engines with only the dpf as bluetec and cdi, eg 2009 e320 bluetech.
my used 2009 e320 bluetec had multiple oxygen sensors replaced, exhaust temp sensor cel-carbon build up, swirl motor and connectors replaced, glow plug control module replaced, turbo replaced, front wheel bearings, oil leaking now, transmission not engaging if below freezing — lots of repairs but it get 20 mpg city and 36-38 mph highway. Costly to maintain with the special motor oil and repairs. Most lastly car to maintain and repair — almost all at 80000 miles.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Yes. US diesel has got steadily better & lower sulphur will now permit the use of the latest Cats etc. Getting US refineries to Euro 5 & 6 is still going to cost a load of money that the consumer is ultimately going to have to carry. However I expect fuel related issues in the US to be on a steady decline. The US diesel is a lot better than it was a few years ago.
Some people seem to have endless crap with cars. I've had 4 Benz cars in a row now. All gasoline in fairness. First three SA built & trouble free. My (German built) CLK had a battery failure at delivery but has not had a single issue since other than a slight grittiness to the brakes that was solved by a front pad change. My late 2003 C240 had one blown stop lamp & a 5 cent weeping crush washer on the transmission sump pan drain & that is all other than standard servicing, brake pads and tyres. The old C240 is now owned by a friend & is still on it's original battery (Benz/Varta AGM ~ I warned him it has to fail soon). It recently needed a CPS ~ a pretty normal replacement as they age due to high temp location on the V6 engines. Trouble seems to follow some around on this forum.
EDIT ~ there is no indication that urea injection has any influence on the oil at all. As a US based oilco we worked with Benz on the Urea injection. We had proposed an alternate route but there is nothing wrong with the chosen Urea system. We were obviously promoting one of our additive systems that Benz knows & likes.
Some people seem to have endless crap with cars. I've had 4 Benz cars in a row now. All gasoline in fairness. First three SA built & trouble free. My (German built) CLK had a battery failure at delivery but has not had a single issue since other than a slight grittiness to the brakes that was solved by a front pad change. My late 2003 C240 had one blown stop lamp & a 5 cent weeping crush washer on the transmission sump pan drain & that is all other than standard servicing, brake pads and tyres. The old C240 is now owned by a friend & is still on it's original battery (Benz/Varta AGM ~ I warned him it has to fail soon). It recently needed a CPS ~ a pretty normal replacement as they age due to high temp location on the V6 engines. Trouble seems to follow some around on this forum.
EDIT ~ there is no indication that urea injection has any influence on the oil at all. As a US based oilco we worked with Benz on the Urea injection. We had proposed an alternate route but there is nothing wrong with the chosen Urea system. We were obviously promoting one of our additive systems that Benz knows & likes.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Aug 27, 2018 at 08:47 PM.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
No kidding. As much as I have only excelent memories from MB for past 20 years, the 2014 E250 Bluetec turns into nightmare.
On June 1 I placed order for rebuild DPF (only option available). The order was scheduled to leave Germany on August 7.
Today is August 28 and even my alarming emails are not getting me ETA for the part.
The car is brick in my garage for 3 months and counting.
On June 1 I placed order for rebuild DPF (only option available). The order was scheduled to leave Germany on August 7.
Today is August 28 and even my alarming emails are not getting me ETA for the part.
The car is brick in my garage for 3 months and counting.
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From: Nova Scotia, Canada
2023 GLK250, 1987 560SL
I’m convinced the issues are with the quality of the fuel and oil. It’s not unique to BluTechs though. All brands are subject to oil contamination, sludging and fuel system failures. And this is more common in North America. Our diesel generally has lower lubricity properties and lower cetane number. This results in fuel component wear and and higher ignition pressures which in turn causes engine damage. Not to mention the higher soot production caused by EGR and the lower burn temps.
If we mandated 100% biodiesel and eliminated all the emissions equipment, it would solve all the problems. But the transitioning is a nightmare because biodiesel loosens build-up from petroleum-diesel and damages the fuel system, and the emissions equipment is damaged by the biodiesel because biodiesel is naturally more sooty than petro which is exacerbated by he EGR. It’s a case of policy creating its own problems.
A good running diesel burning petroleum-diesel will produce nox with little to no particulate. Nox is really only an issue in urban centres where there’s a lot of congestion. Otherwise it dissipates. One running bio will produce some particulate but no nox. Again, really only an issue in urban centres.
The soluion is going to be a political one. In the meantime consumers are bearing the brunt with engine failures and high maintenance costs.
All my diesels are fully deleted now, and I use additives to improve the quality of the fuel. Time will tell if it made a difference.
If we mandated 100% biodiesel and eliminated all the emissions equipment, it would solve all the problems. But the transitioning is a nightmare because biodiesel loosens build-up from petroleum-diesel and damages the fuel system, and the emissions equipment is damaged by the biodiesel because biodiesel is naturally more sooty than petro which is exacerbated by he EGR. It’s a case of policy creating its own problems.
A good running diesel burning petroleum-diesel will produce nox with little to no particulate. Nox is really only an issue in urban centres where there’s a lot of congestion. Otherwise it dissipates. One running bio will produce some particulate but no nox. Again, really only an issue in urban centres.
The soluion is going to be a political one. In the meantime consumers are bearing the brunt with engine failures and high maintenance costs.
All my diesels are fully deleted now, and I use additives to improve the quality of the fuel. Time will tell if it made a difference.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
That somehow US semi-truck industry switched to B20. My 2017 Ford can run on B20 and seem to do it well. Semitrucks run millions of miles in very short time, so would major fuel-related problem arrive- they would be first to know.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
The problem there is that vehicles like this that run their mileage quickly also tend to run in ideal combustion conditions. No prolonged idling. less cold running cycles & warm up. Mainly running for huge distances at operating temperature. Ideal for long engine life & little chance or reduced chance of deposits & sludging.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Aug 28, 2018 at 05:42 PM.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Apr 2015
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From: Montana, USA
formerly drove a 2010 ML350 BLUETEC, currently drive Mazda, Chevrolet, and Toyota
The problem there is that vehicles like this that run their mileage quickly also tend to run in ideal combustion conditions. No prolonged idling. less cold running cycles & warm up. Mainly running for huge distances at operating temperature. Ideal for long engine life & little chance or reduced chance of deposits & sludging.
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Gl 350 Bluetec
Bluetec Engine seizure.
The Mercedes Bluetec Diesel engine should not be sold to Unsuspecting consumers UNLESS
it has A Huge Warningn is placed that you need a Degree in petroleum engineering AND
Be your Mechanic AND
have Hidden Cameras in the car or SUV to Verify the DEALER is Changing Oil AND
Set aside Thousands of Dollars a Year for maintenance AND
set aside Weeks of Down time AND
Import your Diesel from SA or Europe AND
Change your very Expensive Oil Every 3000 Miles AND
Forget Your Rest or Relaxation to Spend it at Stealeriship or Indie repairing the Car or SUV AND
Have a Reliable Brand Car ( ANY but MB Bluetec) AND
Pay higher Price per gallon than Gasoline To get 4 MPG better Mileage AND
Have a Tow Truck Numbet in your Pocket When (NOT IF ) it breaks down anytime it wants AND
Believe in God so you Do NOT harm yourself or others from the Constant Misery you are in from Mercedes Diesel
If All the above Conditions met....Then go ahead and
BUY the BLUETEC you want......The best or NOTHING!!!
every statement above happened to me while owning my 2011 GL350 Bluetec. God is my witness!!!
good luck.
it has A Huge Warningn is placed that you need a Degree in petroleum engineering AND
Be your Mechanic AND
have Hidden Cameras in the car or SUV to Verify the DEALER is Changing Oil AND
Set aside Thousands of Dollars a Year for maintenance AND
set aside Weeks of Down time AND
Import your Diesel from SA or Europe AND
Change your very Expensive Oil Every 3000 Miles AND
Forget Your Rest or Relaxation to Spend it at Stealeriship or Indie repairing the Car or SUV AND
Have a Reliable Brand Car ( ANY but MB Bluetec) AND
Pay higher Price per gallon than Gasoline To get 4 MPG better Mileage AND
Have a Tow Truck Numbet in your Pocket When (NOT IF ) it breaks down anytime it wants AND
Believe in God so you Do NOT harm yourself or others from the Constant Misery you are in from Mercedes Diesel
If All the above Conditions met....Then go ahead and
BUY the BLUETEC you want......The best or NOTHING!!!
every statement above happened to me while owning my 2011 GL350 Bluetec. God is my witness!!!
good luck.
Last edited by Mikemd; Aug 28, 2018 at 07:09 PM. Reason: Forgot word diesel
Member
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 110
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From: Northen California
2012 e350 bluetec
If diesel fuel is to blame for at least some of the problems I wonder why we have the same issues with diesel fuel here in California as other states. The minimum Cetane standard here in California is 53. My understanding is that meets MB standards (at least for the US) but I could be wrong. Perhaps it's the lubricity standard or some other component that is problematic.
Also, I don't understand why we talk about Adblue being a problem. It's injected post-combustion into the exhaust. How can that be a problem with oil sludging? It may cause problems in the DPF but that's another unproven theory.
Also, I don't understand why we talk about Adblue being a problem. It's injected post-combustion into the exhaust. How can that be a problem with oil sludging? It may cause problems in the DPF but that's another unproven theory.
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From: NW
2018 GLC 4MATIC
Originally Posted by krd2023
So in other words, I bought the wrong car new (a 2010 ML350 Bluetec) with the wrong engine (OM642) for the long winters in Montana USA for the short trips around the city I normally took with it, aside from occasional highway trips around our great state.
From what I learned in the past two years, diesel engines must run, long trips.
AdBlue hitter will go bad in cold climates 99.9% and 99% in all other cases ))
But unfortunately we learn things hard way
at least I did.
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From: Llandudno, Cape Town, South Africa
late 2009 CLK 350 Coupe Elegance, '65 Jaguar S Type wires
Once again. For short trips one should change the servicing regime. Halve the oil drain interval. It is not very complicated.
BTW ~ There is a lot more to diesel fuel composition than Cetane number.
BTW ~ There is a lot more to diesel fuel composition than Cetane number.
Last edited by Glyn M Ruck; Aug 29, 2018 at 01:23 AM.
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Posts: 1,234
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From: Montreal/Cape Coral FL
2012 X6 35i Sport, 2013 ML 350 BT, 2019 4Runner TRD Pro, 2020 CRV-AWD
At 20k miles (still under warranty), the Adblue tank/heater had to be replaced this summer. $4k CAN. That was it, I was converted.
Truck is going in after the warranty runs out in October. Adblue/DPF/EGR delete and CPU remap. Between that and my spin-on oversized oil filter & high(er) zinc Amsoil Dominator oil changes at 3k miles, I'll hopefully benefit from a long-lasting and reliable diesel. As was already mentioned, only time will tell...
Last edited by peter2772000; Aug 29, 2018 at 05:06 PM.
