fireman1073

looks like an oil problem not a engine problem...yikes

GLKpaul

Wow now thats sludge never seen anything like it

fireman1073

i think your dealer told you they changed the oil but never did.

i can sleep better knowing my 09 diesel will not blow up because of a defect, your motor clearly blew up because of oil change problems with your dealer

thanks for sharing all this, i appreciate it

Steve

Carsy

That is an incredible photo. Almost unbelievable. Snopes would say' FALSE'.

There is still time to do a oil test. Take a sample anyway. Maybe the results could prove something.

This photo should go viral to make the culprits own up.

Glyn M Ruck

Holy mother what a mess. As an oil industry man I can assure you that something is horribly wrong here. Wrong oil, never changed, over fueling & producing excessive soot, poor fuel, overheating etc. or a combination of all.

Any messing with aftermarket additives? Keep a sample of that sludge for analysis.

Ausmbtech

What oil was used by the dealer for your oil changes?

Glyn M Ruck

Yeah! I'm almost sure it was not a 229.51 unless something else is terribly wrong.

nelbur

It looks to me like it is the oil Mercedes put in at the factory. You obviously can't believe the dealer. This sort of thing is why I have never let anyone change oil in my cars, but me. Oil changes are too important. My first car was a '57 Chevy, so I've been doing it awhile.

Carsy

Hello krd2023,

For everyone's interest from a consumers to an engineering viewpoint, the reason for this sludging should be investigated.

This thread has been a long running , interesting story with a very disappointing & expensive end for you.

What do you intend to do?

John.

Ausmbtech

That's a common problem that engines with adblue (bluetec) are having. they need oil that meets 229.52 yet many are still using older MB spec oils The emissions system is causing much higher oil stress (higher temps, higher moisture content, fuel dilution, etc) than other models with the same base engine.

Other brands have been sensitive to what oils they require to prevent sludging but for MB owners this is something new.

krd2023

Thanks, everyone, for your responses and insight in this thread this week. I'm glad my updates are helpful to several of you. I'll obtain and post the results from the forensic oil analysis of our gelled oil (as pictured earlier this week) when available within a week or two. The oil that was supposedly used at each oil change by my MB dealer is documented as Mobil 1 5W-40 ESP, which is NO LONGER an approved MB oil (for the OM642 diesel engine in my 2010 ML350 Bluetec) as was determined prior in this thread. Here's a recent and insightful blog post which well-summarizes the inherent issues with the modern Bluetec engines and oil mishaps: http://www.stephensservice.com/bluet...ssuesproblems/

krd2023

Meanwhile, while I'm awaiting the oil analysis from our sludge project, I received the following email response from the owner of the local MB dealer from where I purchased my 2010 ML350 Bluetec new and had all regular services / oil changes and repairs performed (again, names are masked to respect privacy- and an important note: this is the same individual who stated that the Mobil 1 5W-40 ESP used as indicated on each of my oil change invoices would not contribute to sludging or engine failure, even though it's no longer an approved MB oil for the OM642 Bluetec engine):


From: R (MB Dealership owner) [mailto:r__@_______.com]
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015
To: k___________
Subject: Re: 2010 ML350 Bluetec - Resolution


K___,
It is very unfortunate that the engine failed in your ML. The condition of the oil is what I would expect since the engine seized up. I can assure you that if we changed the oil in your ML, it was changed. It is my understanding you exceeded your last oil change interval by approximately 7000 miles which would explain the condition of the oil at this time. Again I am sorry the engine failed, but I see no justification for any consideration from us.
R___ (MB Dealer owner)

From: K_____
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2015
To: R _____ (MB Dealer owner)
Cc:
Subject: RE: 2010 ML350 Bluetec - Resolution

Hi R______,
I hope the holiday season is going well for you and your family. We are staying busy this season and things are going well.

I wanted to pass along the attached photo as I thought you’d be interested. S’s mechanics recently disassembled our ML350 Bluetec’s engine during the engine replacement job. The photo was taken yesterday and shows the engine upside down with the oil pan removed. You can see that the oil is completely gelled to the point a screwdriver could be inserted into the sludged oil and stand upright by itself. This is after the drain plug was removed with no oil emptying. The mechanics stated it resembles oil that was NEVER changed in an engine despite my D___ dealer records showing that an oil/filter change service was recorded at almost every 10K-mile recommended interval.

I’d appreciate your consideration of this determination among your dealer staff and Mercedes colleagues, and I’d appreciate a reply with an offer of assistance given our substantial financial loss stemming from this oil mishap.

Thank you,

K___

mbdiesel12

I'm new to the forum but have been following this thread since I own a 2012 E350 Bluetec. I've followed a lot of oil forums and Porsche tech sites because I own a Porsche with the known IMS issues.

I have some questions on the recent posts here however:
1. I have a 2012 that BEVO lists as a 229.51 oil spec. MB has not made 229.52 mandatory on that spec or earlier so I assume those oils are still perfectly acceptable to them. If not, they would have made 229.52 mandatory. I choose to run a 5w40 ESP approved oil due to the hot summers here.
2. I read the link provided and don't know if I agree with the conclusion. All clean diesels in the US run PDF filters and have an oil bypass system. If that was the problem, engine failures would be common with other manufactures in the US. I don't see that with Ford, GM, Dodge, etc.
3. I do an oil analysis on my oil. No duel dilution has ever been noted on the report. All tests have been normal. I believe the added fuel is injected directly into the catalytic converter to heat up the converter to reduce the HC levels. It does not go back into the engine to cause overfueling or dilution.
4. The dealer in question here suggests the oil was 7000 miles overdue. Is that correct or was it changed by someone else? If not, that could mean 17000 or more miles on the oil.

If someone has engineering knowledge of these engines please correct me.

mbdiesel12

Let me clarify/correct point #2 in my above post. Some diesels used to inject fuel into the exhaust cycle of a diesel engine. Perhaps some still do. MB obviously uses DEF fluid injected into the exhaust stream to control pollutants. I don't know how MB forces a regen cycle. Some manufacturers use time, some use mileage, some use differential PDF pressures, etc. Because of fuel dilution I doubt MB injects fuel into the cylinders.

By the way, Mobil 1 has an engine warranty that you should check into. Look at the Mobile 1 official site. If their correct oil truly was the cause of the failure they would want to investigate, analyze, and perhaps even warranty your engine. It's worth checking out. Save another oil sample for them to analyze.

Ausmbtech

I cant make this clear enough. Mobil 1 5w40 ESP HAS NEVER been an approved oil for bluetec engines. It's a perfectly good high quality oil and is an approved oil for non bluetec 642's but its the emission package and not the engine that necessitates that a 229.52 oil is used in bluetec 642 engines. Without using the correct spec oil you're relying on short oil change intervals, favorable operating conditions and luck to prevent oil sludging like pictured.

Between fuel dilution, higher than normal temps and increased soot content, using an oil that doesn't have the increased resistance to oxidisation you're taking the risk of an oil related failure at some point.

Glyn M Ruck

While I advise using 229.52 oils. 229.51 products will not cause this issue. Yes some of the urea injection engines run severe. I'm told this engine has been dropped from the US market. Might be due to fuel quality there as it's not up to European standards & at US pricing no one wants to upgrade refineries.

mbdiesel12

Yes, I should have written the whole thing more clearly. Mobil 1 ESP Formula M 5w40 was an approved oil for the OM642 oil under spec 229.51 and still is listed in Bevo. Mobil has since dropped that oil for whatever reason.

We may never know the official reason but we can't assume that it was because the oil failed in the OM642 engine.

In fact, Mobil 1 does not make an MB approved 5w40 for diesels anymore under spec 229.52 but they make Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 that is approved.

Perhaps Mobil corporation would test your oil sample to determine if the oil was even correct.

Carsy

This conversation begs the question , what is the difference in formulation between 229.51 & 229.52 & why was the change necessary ?

mbdiesel12

We'll probably never know why the change. My guess is that MB wanted to improve fleet mileage targets. There are few 229.52 oils as of right now and they are all Xw30 oils.

My biggest questions remain. What oil was used in the OP's vehicle by the dealer and more importantly, how many miles were on the oil when last changed. The servicing dealer is suggesting it was 7000 miles overdue. Hard to get any concessions if that's true.

Carsy

To answer your question re overdue please see KRD's #28 post.

JC

krd2023

News outlets today (12/21/15 in USA) announced that Stephen Cannon, CEO of MBUSA since 2012, is leaving MBUSA to become chief executive officer of AMB Group, LLC also in Atlanta, GA. From my own disappointing experience with MBUSA this year, and from what I've gathered from many others with shared poor MB experiences, I'm not surprised that yet another MBUSA executive is leaving the company. As you see prior in this thread, I wrote Mr. Cannon earlier this year requesting assistance and detailing facts surrounding my case, which had fallen on deaf ears previously at MBUSA. The company responded with a demand that I cease communications with MBUSA via a "cease-and-desist" order. Weeks ago, I walked away from MB as a customer forever. Hopefully the company turns itself around relative to its customer care and customer retention perspectives (yes, I see that MBUSA earned high rankings in American Customer Satisfaction Index, but I don't understand how). I'm sure there are many good reasons for Mr. Cannon's successful professional career, but based on my experience with MBUSA, I see irony in Mr. Cannon's preaching of "culture reigns supreme" in his assertions here:


"You have to basically rearchitect your organization because the exceptional customer experience requires equally exceptional people, culture, and leadership. I am a strong believer in Peter Drucker’s statement that “culture eats strategy for breakfast.” You have to behave like the experience you want to deliver.
At our roots, we began as an engineering company. Today we are a marketing company that delivers customers their dreams. Don’t get me wrong, we still build the best cars in the world! But the expectation goes well beyond the sheet metal. Today the customer is at the center of everything. We have a laser focus on the customer’s perspective as it relates to our products, marketing, technology, and processes. Our goal is nothing less than to delight every customer, every time, everywhere . . No exceptions!" --June 2014, Mr. Stephen Cannon, CEO of MBUSA, with full article referenced here -- http://blogs.forrester.com/harley_ma...cedes_benz_usa

Carsy

An excellent example of absolutely empty & misleading corporate rhetoric spoken by a bull **** artist.

krd2023

I hope 2016 is off to a great start for you all. For your reading this year, I'd like to recommend the newly-released Driven to Delight as found here: http://driventodelight.com/index

Joseph A. Michelli does an insightful job of revealing the culture changes and organizational process flows within MBUSA, which for MBUSA "sets a new gold standard in customer service, employee engagement, and peak performance." Let's see if MBUSA maintains the principles espoused in the book. Hopefully my 2015 experience with MBUSA was an exception.

With the timing of the book's release, I was compelled to start my second MBWorld.org thread to follow related Driven to Delight feedback, as found here: https://mbworld.org/forums/collectib...rated-yet.html
I look forward to seeing your input and feedback there.

Here's to good reading, good living, and safe driving in 2016!

coiner

Here is a photo of the sludge being removed from my 2011 E350 Bluetech. We have sent this oil for analysis to Finning Labs and awaiting the results.

coiner

Like KRD, we had a friend of ours who has a non Mercedes Dealership haul our car back to his shop. He has been in the business for 40 years and Never Seen Anything Like This!
How Mercedes can deny there is an issue with this engine and or oil is beyond comprehension. The fact that Mercedes won't even discuss this issue with the owners of these vehicles is just wrong.