Daimler may be fined 1 billion euros for Mercedes diesel cheating
08-14-2019, 04:37 PM
#1
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Daimler may be fined 1 billion euros for Mercedes diesel cheating
this news broke about 5 days ago. It looks like the most recent investigations have led to this result. However, it doesn't say which models and markets are impacted. Anyone know anymore about this news?
https://www.caradvice.com.au/782955/...t-fine-report/
https://www.caradvice.com.au/782955/...t-fine-report/
08-16-2019, 11:23 AM
#2
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this news broke about 5 days ago. It looks like the most recent investigations have led to this result. However, it doesn't say which models and markets are impacted. Anyone know anymore about this news?
https://www.caradvice.com.au/782955/...t-fine-report/
https://www.caradvice.com.au/782955/...t-fine-report/
Further down in the article it states at least 280,000 C-Class and E-Class vehicles sold in Germany.
08-19-2019, 02:15 PM
#4
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the last diesel gate was started by US EPA investigation. This time it was from Germany's own technocrats, which leads me to believe that the investigation will eventually reach our shores. Furthermore, this German investigation results can only aid the class action lawsuits currently in progress in the US. https://www.greencarreports.com/news...-mercedes-benz
For one thing, our resale values have now been screwed. Any informed buyer would not like this news. As a secondary matter, we can hope for a good settlement from MB USA.
For one thing, our resale values have now been screwed. Any informed buyer would not like this news. As a secondary matter, we can hope for a good settlement from MB USA.
Last edited by mellonc; 08-19-2019 at 02:28 PM.
08-19-2019, 03:34 PM
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Diesel in USA have ****ty resale value for last 10 years, so I don't think that will change much.
Still would they give me 3 grands settlement, I would not object.
Still would they give me 3 grands settlement, I would not object.
08-20-2019, 12:35 PM
#6
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It looks like the recall is already happening in Europe. The press says "worldwide," but according the MB, it's in Europe. here is the link to the PDF document of the models actually impacted. It looks like OM651 engines are in the list but, again, they don't appear to affect US models.
https://www.daimler.com/innovation/d...ecall-faq.html
https://www.daimler.com/innovation/d...ecall-faq.html
08-20-2019, 08:36 PM
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the recall ordered by KBA in 2018 applies solely to vehicles with the emission standard Euro 6b .... .
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08-23-2019, 03:20 PM
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"Euro" means applicable to European models. That is all I need to know.
6b is probably note number, but again - not my concern in USA.
6b is probably note number, but again - not my concern in USA.
08-26-2019, 12:09 PM
#10
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You realize the European diesel emission standards are more lenient than that in the US? In other words, any violation in Europe may easily reach our shores.......
Since I could not get reliable answers back from the forum, I did some digging.....
HC + NOx: 0.17g/km
NOx: 0.08g/km
PM: 0.005g/km
PN [#/km]: 6.0x10 ^11/km
Source: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/e...ons-standards/
US NOx limit is 0.04 g/km
PM requirement is a bit hazy as I don't really think it applies to individual cars except in CA. this website* says about 0.08 milligrams per miles which translates to about 0.0018g/km.
*https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t3.php
Since I could not get reliable answers back from the forum, I did some digging.....
Euro 6 emissions standards (diesel)
CO: 0.50g/kmHC + NOx: 0.17g/km
NOx: 0.08g/km
PM: 0.005g/km
PN [#/km]: 6.0x10 ^11/km
Source: https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/e...ons-standards/
US NOx limit is 0.04 g/km
PM requirement is a bit hazy as I don't really think it applies to individual cars except in CA. this website* says about 0.08 milligrams per miles which translates to about 0.0018g/km.
*https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_t3.php
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08-26-2019, 02:10 PM
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Europe not only has different diesel fuel formula, different cetane rating, but the European MB diesels do have quite different HP ratings and quite different engine programs.
To top it - never have heard about anybody in USA checking NOx on small vehicles.
Comparing the 2 is not going to bring you any resolution to the subject.
To top it - never have heard about anybody in USA checking NOx on small vehicles.
Comparing the 2 is not going to bring you any resolution to the subject.
Last edited by kajtek1; 08-26-2019 at 02:12 PM.
08-27-2019, 05:55 PM
#12
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European Cetane requirement (51) is actually LOWER than that of California (53). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number
As higher Cetane number generally reduces emissions, the CA emissions requirements are indeed more stringent for Diesel than in Europe.
Anyways, look at the way the Volkswagen scandal started. It was California Air Resources Board (which led to EPA results) that started this by ordering up results from smog tests from different countries because the results were so different. We have the exact same formula here.
As higher Cetane number generally reduces emissions, the CA emissions requirements are indeed more stringent for Diesel than in Europe.
Anyways, look at the way the Volkswagen scandal started. It was California Air Resources Board (which led to EPA results) that started this by ordering up results from smog tests from different countries because the results were so different. We have the exact same formula here.
08-27-2019, 06:03 PM
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08-27-2019, 06:58 PM
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European Cetane requirement (51) is actually LOWER than that of California (53). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cetane_number
As higher Cetane number generally reduces emissions, the CA emissions requirements are indeed more stringent for Diesel than in Europe.
Anyways, look at the way the Volkswagen scandal started. It was California Air Resources Board (which led to EPA results) that started this by ordering up results from smog tests from different countries because the results were so different. We have the exact same formula here.
As higher Cetane number generally reduces emissions, the CA emissions requirements are indeed more stringent for Diesel than in Europe.
Anyways, look at the way the Volkswagen scandal started. It was California Air Resources Board (which led to EPA results) that started this by ordering up results from smog tests from different countries because the results were so different. We have the exact same formula here.
08-28-2019, 05:53 PM
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Growing up in communism, I dealt with propaganda a lot.
Typical propaganda is to post couple of real facts, to catch reader attention since plain lies would turn him away and then - speculate in promoted direction using lot of slogans, who have nothing to do with facts.
Bottom line is, that with some practice you can learn to pull those couple of real facts from a page of BS.
Here is what I read
Typical propaganda is to post couple of real facts, to catch reader attention since plain lies would turn him away and then - speculate in promoted direction using lot of slogans, who have nothing to do with facts.
Bottom line is, that with some practice you can learn to pull those couple of real facts from a page of BS.
Here is what I read
Three years after the Environmental Protection Agency began investigating alleged diesel emission cheating in Mercedes-Benz cars, vehicle owners and environmentalists say the Trump administration appears to be allowing the inquiry to stall
The Mercedes-Benz defeat device scandal came to light in early 2016, prompting EPA and DOJ to launch investigations into Mercedes and its parent company, Daimler AG. However, since the Trump administration took office in January 2017, this investigation appears to have stalled. No enforcement action has been taken against Mercedes or any of its executives,
08-28-2019, 06:09 PM
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If you ask me, - some of the articles were created to put Trump in bad light.
Plain and simple.
Plain and simple.
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08-28-2019, 07:33 PM
#20
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well those are liberal press outlets...... so bias is already built in. Besides all the politics, this is what caught my eye. "Three years seems unusual,” said John German, a former official at the EPA and a senior fellow at the International Council on Clean Transportation, the environmental advocacy group that commissioned the study that uncovered Volkswagen’s cheating. From start to finish, the government’s investigation into VW took about a year and a half, German said"
08-29-2019, 09:07 AM
#21
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