2010 ML350 BlueTec will not start
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From: Oro-Medonte
ML350 - 2010
2010 ML350 BlueTec will not start
The engine cranks over, however, there is no indication of ignition whatsoever. The cranking characteristics are as follows: 135RPM, 60 PSIG fuel pressure at filter outlet, high pressure fuel reaches 590 kPa (85 PSIG). I also deadheaded the low pressure pump and it reads well past 140 PSIG (it pinned the needle).
If the low pressure pump is activated it charges the fuel system rapidly to 60 PSIG, holds the pressure there for 30 or so seconds, a relay can be heard tripping then the low pressure pump stops and the fuel pressure decays to less than 10 PSIG over 20 seconds more.
The engine would not start and since I had the error I then replaced the swirl motor and renewed all associated seals etc. The current error codes are 16cc00 (which I understand to be low AdBlue), 16f600 and 16f700. The latter two I understand are to be ignored. There are no codes that have been translated by the reader from hexadecimal. The swirl motor code cleared itself. I am using an iCarsoft i980 reader through which I can get various data streams giving me the above numbers except the fuel filter outlet pressure for which I used a mechanical guage plumbed in for the purpose.
From what I have read so far on the matter the cranking RPM is too low and should be at least 200 RPM, the filter outlet may be low but is not out of range for at least “hard starting”. As well I have read others who have said the cranking pressure to the fuel rail should be 3,600 PSIG for a start.
The vehicle has 240,000K km on it or about 150K miles. Is this the right direction? I am hoping for a confirmation regarding the low starter RPM from an experienced member and any other comments that you may have to share.
Hope you are all doing well in these trying times.
If the low pressure pump is activated it charges the fuel system rapidly to 60 PSIG, holds the pressure there for 30 or so seconds, a relay can be heard tripping then the low pressure pump stops and the fuel pressure decays to less than 10 PSIG over 20 seconds more.
The engine would not start and since I had the error I then replaced the swirl motor and renewed all associated seals etc. The current error codes are 16cc00 (which I understand to be low AdBlue), 16f600 and 16f700. The latter two I understand are to be ignored. There are no codes that have been translated by the reader from hexadecimal. The swirl motor code cleared itself. I am using an iCarsoft i980 reader through which I can get various data streams giving me the above numbers except the fuel filter outlet pressure for which I used a mechanical guage plumbed in for the purpose.
From what I have read so far on the matter the cranking RPM is too low and should be at least 200 RPM, the filter outlet may be low but is not out of range for at least “hard starting”. As well I have read others who have said the cranking pressure to the fuel rail should be 3,600 PSIG for a start.
The vehicle has 240,000K km on it or about 150K miles. Is this the right direction? I am hoping for a confirmation regarding the low starter RPM from an experienced member and any other comments that you may have to share.
Hope you are all doing well in these trying times.
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From: Oro-Medonte
ML350 - 2010
Thanks @kajtek1 from a cost perspective, I was rather hoping that or the starter. I'm wondering whether the additional 70 RPM to bring the cranking speed to spec would raise the high pressure sufficiently.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
One more thought - I can't figure out your location, but US models have count program, who will prevent engine running when DEF is gone. Your description indicate that you had lot of mess with this engine, so maybe that slipped by?
I think you need better scan.
I think you need better scan.
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From: Oro-Medonte
ML350 - 2010
Thanks again @kajtek1 I am in Canada, I believe the same regulations would apply here. The DEF was low but not at the 20 starts to lockout point. With the DEF run out I think that preventing the engine from running would be accomplished by preventing the starter from initiating the start sequence as opposed to opening the pressure regulation valve to dump fuel back to the tank. But hey there might have been a devious designer on shift that day 
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From: Lawrence, Kansas
GL320
You need 200rpm & 3600psi minimum within 1 second at the injectors to start. If it cranks too slow, the cylinder temps never get hot enough to fire and the injector pump takes too long to prime.
Have you tried unplugging the QCV and cranking? Doing so will default the system to 20kpsi at cranking and would rule out fuel issues if it doesnt start. If it starts, its a fuel issue.
Theres no chance you shorted the copper connector on the CCV hose that plugs in to the intake T pipe just in front of the turbo is there?
Have you tried unplugging the QCV and cranking? Doing so will default the system to 20kpsi at cranking and would rule out fuel issues if it doesnt start. If it starts, its a fuel issue.
Theres no chance you shorted the copper connector on the CCV hose that plugs in to the intake T pipe just in front of the turbo is there?
Last edited by dhurley; Mar 30, 2020 at 12:37 AM.
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2012 ML350 Bluetec, 2015 GL350 Bluetec
When you renewed the gaskets, did you take a look at the intake ports between the manifold and cylinder head? I'm working on my 2015 GL350 Bluetec and found the ports half clogged when I opened it up, but it only has 75k miles so with double the miles it's possible the ports are clogged too much if it's not been well taken care of. Also I'd check the glow plugs first to make sure they are working fine.
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From: Oro-Medonte
ML350 - 2010
@dhurley
Thanks for the suggestions, I have to get back at it, was distracted by a few issues. Agree about the compression heat and noticed that the rail pressure only gets to its (very low) max at the end of the timed cranking cycle which squares up with the priming comment. That Quantity Control Valve trick is a neat one. I did install a new CCV ***'y. What would the short do?
@geniushanbiao
Yes, thanks for that, mine was a big mess too. cleaned out things best I could. It's not starting was a sudden thing. There were no "hard starts". It was very lively until it stopped starting. Before that I didn't notice any engine performance issues.
Thanks for the suggestions, I have to get back at it, was distracted by a few issues. Agree about the compression heat and noticed that the rail pressure only gets to its (very low) max at the end of the timed cranking cycle which squares up with the priming comment. That Quantity Control Valve trick is a neat one. I did install a new CCV ***'y. What would the short do?
@geniushanbiao
Yes, thanks for that, mine was a big mess too. cleaned out things best I could. It's not starting was a sudden thing. There were no "hard starts". It was very lively until it stopped starting. Before that I didn't notice any engine performance issues.
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2012 ML350 Bluetec, 2015 GL350 Bluetec
@dhurley
Thanks for the suggestions, I have to get back at it, was distracted by a few issues. Agree about the compression heat and noticed that the rail pressure only gets to its (very low) max at the end of the timed cranking cycle which squares up with the priming comment. That Quantity Control Valve trick is a neat one. I did install a new CCV ***'y. What would the short do?
@geniushanbiao
Yes, thanks for that, mine was a big mess too. cleaned out things best I could. It's not starting was a sudden thing. There were no "hard starts". It was very lively until it stopped starting. Before that I didn't notice any engine performance issues.
Thanks for the suggestions, I have to get back at it, was distracted by a few issues. Agree about the compression heat and noticed that the rail pressure only gets to its (very low) max at the end of the timed cranking cycle which squares up with the priming comment. That Quantity Control Valve trick is a neat one. I did install a new CCV ***'y. What would the short do?
@geniushanbiao
Yes, thanks for that, mine was a big mess too. cleaned out things best I could. It's not starting was a sudden thing. There were no "hard starts". It was very lively until it stopped starting. Before that I didn't notice any engine performance issues.
That should rule out the problem caused by clogged intake though. However I didn't listen to your start procedure so can't really comment on this. Did you make sure the battery is healthy and fully charged? Some old batteries might appear fully charged but since the internal resistance went too high the engine cannot get enough power during cranking that causes the no-start problem. My guess would be the HPFP if you are not getting enough pressure on the fuel rail during cranking, but you need to do a full fuel system test before concluding. The HPFP is a common failure thing on all DI engines including gas and diesel. The gas HPFP fails more often as gasoline is not a good lubricant while diesel fuel is. Basic test is to ensure the HPFP is getting enough feed from the low pressure pump and ensure it's not building the pressure as it should. It can be caused by injector leakage as well so it's a difficult test procedure and requires special tools.
By the way, was the fuel filter replaced regularly? A clogged fuel filter can probably cause this issue as well. From your description the low pressure pump builds a pressure way higher than spec and it drops a lot when reaches the HPFP which indicates a clogged filter to me.
Last edited by geniushanbiao; Apr 4, 2020 at 07:28 PM.
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From: Lawrence, Kansas
GL320
@dhurley
Thanks for the suggestions, I have to get back at it, was distracted by a few issues. Agree about the compression heat and noticed that the rail pressure only gets to its (very low) max at the end of the timed cranking cycle which squares up with the priming comment. That Quantity Control Valve trick is a neat one. I did install a new CCV ***'y. What would the short do?
@geniushanbiao
Yes, thanks for that, mine was a big mess too. cleaned out things best I could. It's not starting was a sudden thing. There were no "hard starts". It was very lively until it stopped starting. Before that I didn't notice any engine performance issues.
Thanks for the suggestions, I have to get back at it, was distracted by a few issues. Agree about the compression heat and noticed that the rail pressure only gets to its (very low) max at the end of the timed cranking cycle which squares up with the priming comment. That Quantity Control Valve trick is a neat one. I did install a new CCV ***'y. What would the short do?
@geniushanbiao
Yes, thanks for that, mine was a big mess too. cleaned out things best I could. It's not starting was a sudden thing. There were no "hard starts". It was very lively until it stopped starting. Before that I didn't notice any engine performance issues.
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From: Oro-Medonte
ML350 - 2010
@geniushanbiao and @dhurley
The fuel filter is new.
Okay so I charged the new battery right up, put the fully charged "old" battery on jumpers to it and added a battery charger with starter capability. I disconnected the QCV and reattempted the start sequence. The engine RPM bounced from 170 to 200, the rail pressure achieved 3100kPa (which is 300psi, way under 20KPSI) and there were a couple of firings but no catch.
Starter?
The fuel filter is new.
Okay so I charged the new battery right up, put the fully charged "old" battery on jumpers to it and added a battery charger with starter capability. I disconnected the QCV and reattempted the start sequence. The engine RPM bounced from 170 to 200, the rail pressure achieved 3100kPa (which is 300psi, way under 20KPSI) and there were a couple of firings but no catch.
Starter?
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 356
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2012 ML350 Bluetec, 2015 GL350 Bluetec
@geniushanbiao and @dhurley
The fuel filter is new.
Okay so I charged the new battery right up, put the fully charged "old" battery on jumpers to it and added a battery charger with starter capability. I disconnected the QCV and reattempted the start sequence. The engine RPM bounced from 170 to 200, the rail pressure achieved 3100kPa (which is 300psi, way under 20KPSI) and there were a couple of firings but no catch.
Starter?
The fuel filter is new.
Okay so I charged the new battery right up, put the fully charged "old" battery on jumpers to it and added a battery charger with starter capability. I disconnected the QCV and reattempted the start sequence. The engine RPM bounced from 170 to 200, the rail pressure achieved 3100kPa (which is 300psi, way under 20KPSI) and there were a couple of firings but no catch.
Starter?
Easy thing to test is that you can disconnect the fuel supply line at the HPFP and crank the engine. If you see fuel shooting out of the line then the HPFP is receiving proper fuel supply, then you can confirm it defective.
Last edited by geniushanbiao; Apr 10, 2020 at 10:23 PM.
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From: Oro-Medonte
ML350 - 2010
After a lengthy outage on this project due to other issues ... I will try disconnecting the supply line to the HPFP and see whether fuel comes out on cranking. I seached around quite a bit but was unable to locate where I might find a rebuild kit for the CR/CP3S3/L9020-8911S high pressure pump that is in the vehicle. I presume that this is not a pump that is timed to the engine cam or crank.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
After a lengthy outage on this project due to other issues ... I will try disconnecting the supply line to the HPFP and see whether fuel comes out on cranking. I seached around quite a bit but was unable to locate where I might find a rebuild kit for the CR/CP3S3/L9020-8911S high pressure pump that is in the vehicle. I presume that this is not a pump that is timed to the engine cam or crank.
I ditto the comment that pump wear out is unheard about on the forum. Even in Sprinters they run high hundreds thousands miles. Most of the time it is pressure regulator.
Coming to rebuild parts- not too many of them available in America to start with, but I am finding lot of them in Europe.
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From: Oro-Medonte
ML350 - 2010
Okay so disconnected the injector return line just where it goes into the inlet "T" of the fuel filter then plugged off the "T" with a pressure guage. So the return fuel quantity represents all six injectors. To do that I had to remove the intake air tube "Y" from the filters to the turbo intake and the pipe from the turbo outlet to the intercooler. First I turned on the ignition so that the low pressure pump came on, there was no fuel coming out of the injector return line, the system pressure was about 65 psig. I did one crank cycle with the quantity control valve electrical connection disconnected, approximately 1/2 teaspoon of fuel came out, there were a couple of misfires but no start. I reconnected the quantity control valve electrics and tried another start cycle. At approximately the same time as the fuel began to flow from the return line the engine started!! Being in an enclosed garage and not expecting a start and without the air filters and turbo in the inlet circuit I just shut the engine off. About the same amount of fuel came out the return line.
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From: Oro-Medonte
ML350 - 2010
So I am posting this a follow-up. After the start-up I e-mailed Oregon Diesel who indicated that there should be some return line fuel during cranking but could not indicate how much. Based on the start-up in the previous post I reinstalled all of the intake components and put the injector return line back in the fuel circuit. Plugged in the reader, cleared the DTCs, opened the garage and turned the ignition key. Up she started. I let it warm for a while and ensured there were no leaks or unusual behaviours, took the vehicle out for a test run around the neighbourhood watching the engine vitals on the streaming page. The fuel rail pressure operated from a low of about 4,500 psi at idle up to 14,000 psi at friendly neighbourhood speeds. I did not try the highway, but there were no hesitations, the engine performance was smooth and there appeared to be sufficient boost to accelerate as normal (i.e. not slow like an normally aspirated diesel) and the vehicle was not in limp mode. I am going to leave it overnight and try it again tomorrow.
Is it possible that operating the engine with the injector return line disconnected (and hence no back pressure) permitted some defect to clear that was preventing the high pressure circuit from achieving operating pressures? Such as contamination? Air lock? I am always suspicious of self-correcting problems. The no-start condition all began in February when the ambient temperature was -15 Celcius and there had been a fill-up on a long trip at a sketchy countryside fuel stop about 400km prior.
Is it possible that operating the engine with the injector return line disconnected (and hence no back pressure) permitted some defect to clear that was preventing the high pressure circuit from achieving operating pressures? Such as contamination? Air lock? I am always suspicious of self-correcting problems. The no-start condition all began in February when the ambient temperature was -15 Celcius and there had been a fill-up on a long trip at a sketchy countryside fuel stop about 400km prior.
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W211 E320 Diesel OM642
FYI, I had no start on my 2007 E320 with OM642 with ambient temps below 0C due to injector issue. It would start and run well however when the motor was hot or when I had it on a block heater.
I sent my injectors for reconditioning to Quebec. The guy tried to explain me why this happens with outdoor temps below freezing but his English was too much for me...
I sent my injectors for reconditioning to Quebec. The guy tried to explain me why this happens with outdoor temps below freezing but his English was too much for me...
Last edited by GoodByeHonda; May 30, 2020 at 09:11 PM.
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From: V E G A S
1922 Ford Model T / no OBD
Is it possible that operating the engine with the injector return line disconnected (and hence no back pressure) permitted some defect to clear that was preventing the high pressure circuit from achieving operating pressures? Such as contamination? Air lock? I am always suspicious of self-correcting problems. The no-start condition all began in February when the ambient temperature was -15 Celcius and there had been a fill-up on a long trip at a sketchy countryside fuel stop about 400km prior.
I had incident (due to dealer bending the clips for PO) that return line disconnected at the Tee and engine promptly died at high speed, with huge cloud of sprayed fuel.
